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#1 of 67 Old 06-16-2009, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's bad enough that we need a "religious exemption" to get our kids in school (if we choose to public/private school), then Florida comes out with this "Florida Shots" tracking system that registers kids with the state so they know what shots they have had/still need (ha ha, DS's FS record is blank). Then I hear about Obama's plans for government-run health care...

My worst fear (related to vaccinating) is that this health care reform he is toting gets passed, all health care is regulated by the federal government, and we become felons for refusing to vaccinate our kids, and while we're in prison CPS takes it upon themselves to "play catch-up" on our kids vaccines.

Share my fears? Care to alleviate them?

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#2 of 67 Old 06-16-2009, 12:52 AM
 
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I TOTALLY share your fears! I was actually wondering when this was going to come up on these boards. And I 100% do NOT doubt this will happen if Obama's plan for nationalized healthcare has passed. President Obama was also noted as stating that he is AGAINST choice when it comes to vaccinations.

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#3 of 67 Old 06-16-2009, 05:08 AM
 
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That is a huge fear of mine. I guess I would UC (or find an underground midwife) then and homeschool my children. I think it should be illegal for them to step on the toes of parents. But honestly that is very scary to me. I really dont know what to do any one else have opinions?


**please excuse my post if it dont make sense cant sleep tonight and its 4am so I may be rambling**

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#4 of 67 Old 06-16-2009, 09:58 AM
 
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I guess it depends on the national gov't philosophy re: personal freedom and not necessarily connected with the government funding of health care.

We have (fully-funded) government health care here (Canada), and neither of my kids are vaxed, nor have I been hounded to do so. And we have a "vax registry" as well, but no one is pestering me because my kids have blank files on it. So, I think the connection between tracking and forced vaccination and government has more to do with the philosophies and policies of the national/state government than just who funds health care.

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#5 of 67 Old 06-16-2009, 03:48 PM
 
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I share your fears 100%. I hope the days doesn't come when they swat team parents for not vaccinating.

I don't think govt run health care is all bad. I hear in Canada it's not as big of deal to get kids vaccinated.

The SSN is in misuse already b/c of vaxes, now they want this??? Let me guess-more and more parents are not getting ssn vaccine numbers for kids and now this is happening.

What to do? I've read that people argue that mandating vaxes is against 14th amendment. I've been trying to think of something, perhaps going in front of state legislatures or what not??? I do think we should get away from from exemptions when its our bodies and our children's bodies and we shouldn't be forced or made to feel like we have to vax.

ETA: I think what is even scarier is that so many people wouldn't think that's a bad thing. They would think they cps and swat teams were doing their jobs and that you are an unfit parent who is depriving the child. After all, if you don't vax your kids they're kids will die (from the chxpx) so it would be a good thing that the cps will play vax catch up with your kids. I really do think some people will think like that. I used to think like that before I really learned what was going on. The more I learn, the worse it gets.
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#6 of 67 Old 06-16-2009, 07:50 PM
 
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I don't share your fears. I have no intention of ever letting anyone near my children with a needle.
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#7 of 67 Old 06-17-2009, 02:13 AM
 
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I don't share your fears. I have no intention of ever letting anyone near my children with a needle.
I feel similarly.

I am hopeful that mandatory vaccination will not play a big part in government run health care.
I also have previous experience with CPS, so they already know I'm not vaccinating and if it wasn't a problem before ...... I'm not worried.
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#8 of 67 Old 06-17-2009, 02:28 AM
 
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I guess it depends on the national gov't philosophy re: personal freedom and not necessarily connected with the government funding of health care.

We have (fully-funded) government health care here (Canada), and neither of my kids are vaxed, nor have I been hounded to do so. And we have a "vax registry" as well, but no one is pestering me because my kids have blank files on it. So, I think the connection between tracking and forced vaccination and government has more to do with the philosophies and policies of the national/state government than just who funds health care.
Also in Canada...my family dr told me once that he thought vaxing on an alternate schedule was a good idea (as opposed to not vaxing at all). I nodded and smiled. He hasn't brought it up since.

I know there are people who've had bad experiences with Canadian healthcare in general (though I seriously doubt it even comes near to the amount of people who are uninsured in the US...), but I so *heart* not stressing about insurance payments anymore (moved here 4 years ago). I've had only good experiences here.

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#9 of 67 Old 06-17-2009, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I know there are people who've had bad experiences with Canadian healthcare in general (though I seriously doubt it even comes near to the amount of people who are uninsured in the US...), but I so *heart* not stressing about insurance payments anymore (moved here 4 years ago). I've had only good experiences here.
Not to get off topic, but I think that is the misconception about the "uninsured" in the US. Of the 6 million "uninsured" in CA, over half of them are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Ha!

Also, being "uninsured" isn't that bad. If you don't have a chronic health condition or if you are one who avoids doctors at all costs, you don't need health insurance. Besides, most health insurances don't cover holistic/naturopathic doctors.

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#10 of 67 Old 06-17-2009, 02:32 PM
 
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The #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US is not having health insurance.

If you don't have chronic pre existing conditions the best thing to get is a Health Savings Account. Every month the money goes into the bank and if you don't need it for any health care then you are able to use the money in the future.

If we end up with gov't health insurance I don't think that anything would change regarding vax requirements. They would still be a must for school and the states would still have their exemptions that are not "advertised" anyway.

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#11 of 67 Old 06-17-2009, 10:34 PM
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I don't share your fears. I gave birth in Florida, on Medicaid, via homebirth with a midwife -- they covered it 100% without issue or word one -- We don't vax at all, no one has ever had an issue whatsoever -- our doctor is even pro-vax (on the record) but we love him so much and he supports us as parents even if he recommends vax.

Today, in fact we had dd's four year old once a year we-are-great-parents-see? check-up and all he said was, "is your position still the same on immunizations?" We said, yep, he was like, "okay, just asking" then moved on -- no fuss, no muss.

It is not illegal in any way, shape or form to not vaccinate your own child. Believe me, the federal government has enough on it's plate without having the additional responsibility of sticking kids with needles left and right. They can't handle their business as it stands, ya' know?

I just trust that everyone in our world, from relatives to our family doctor, would back up the fact that this was a well-researched, well-thought-out, decision made by loving, caring parents and would attest to that if need be.

Don't stress.
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#12 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 08:02 AM
 
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We have to use a religious exemption here in Massachusetts, but I'm not too worried about being forced to get shots. As long as the gov't has an insurance fund for vaccination injuries, it's unlikely that the gov't will force parents to do something to their kid that they know may have harmful effects.

Just keep feeding your kids immunity boosting foods and filing whatever letter is needed to claim the exemption and don't feel that you have to explain to people. Most won't understand because they're as fearful of the disease as you may be of vaccine injuries.
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#13 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 12:17 PM
 
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I have to say I am not too terrified of the possibility either. There are many kids on medicaid or some other gov't sponsored health insurance who aren't vaxed and my son is one of them. No one has made any fuss about it.

Why no fear of private health insurance taking the same measures? It seems those corps have just as much power, if not more, than the federal gov't.
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#14 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 01:07 PM
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Not to get off topic, but I think that is the misconception about the "uninsured" in the US. Of the 6 million "uninsured" in CA, over half of them are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Ha!

Also, being "uninsured" isn't that bad. If you don't have a chronic health condition or if you are one who avoids doctors at all costs, you don't need health insurance. Besides, most health insurances don't cover holistic/naturopathic doctors.

Over half are illegal immigrants? Where is that number from? (Not saying you're wrong, but I have never seen that statistic). I actually thought that immigration status was not a factor for receiving Medi-Cal. In other words, that illegal immigrants could get state subsidized health care (if their income otherwise qualifies them). Is that not true?

And I vehemently disagree with your second statement. This is actually a really touchy subject for me, so I apologize. Being uninsured SUCKS. Big time. My dh has no health insurance (I'm a student so I have university insurance, dd is on Medi-Cal, but dh is left high and dry). He has no chronic health problems and is not a "run to the doctor" kind of guy at all. But all it takes is one serious infection, one slip on a wet floor, one car accident, one anything and we are COMPLETELY screwed. He doesn't qualify for Medi-Cal, but he is essentially without an income at this point (he is taking ESL classes) and I am a full time student so I'm broke. We can NOT afford even a doctor's visit, much less any treatment should he get seriously sick or injured. In fact, when he was in a car accident last year and the police BEGGED him to go to the hospital (he had severe chest pains from where he slammed into the steering wheel--the air bags inflated AFTER impact ), he had to refuse, take to bed, and hope that he didn't have a ruptured lung or a broken rib). Sorry, but that sucks.

Anyway, I am all for government health care. I don't believe that vaxes will be mandatory under such a plan.

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#15 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 03:00 PM
 
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Not to get off topic, but I think that is the misconception about the "uninsured" in the US. Of the 6 million "uninsured" in CA, over half of them are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Ha!

Also, being "uninsured" isn't that bad. If you don't have a chronic health condition or if you are one who avoids doctors at all costs, you don't need health insurance. Besides, most health insurances don't cover holistic/naturopathic doctors.
That's not entirely true...more and more health plans are covering ND's and other "alternative" practitioners such as chiropractors. My insurance covers these folks and if it didn't Id be screwed so I am thankful that they are covered. I doubt these type of folks would be covered by government run health coverage...

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#16 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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I do fear this scenario and feel its quite possible. Right now in this country we have a boy being force fed chemo against his and his family's wishes. The government owns this child, but suffers no consequence if the boy dies from his treatment or ends up with a chronically impaired immune system. We also have our health secretary preparing us NOW for vaccine clinics in our schools come fall. Exemptions will not carry weight during epidemic and pandemic situations. Why do you think they passed legislation in 2006 absolving pharma from all liability from vaccines during pandemic situations. There is something big in the works - I hope they won't be able to pull it off, but the possibility is there.

I don't spend too much time worrying about it, but I am ready to leave everything, this country if I have to.
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#17 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 04:30 PM
 
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Yes I share your fears and it doesn't help that my history interest in school has been dictatorships. I've been on a long stretch of Nazi Germany since I was 3 months pregnant. it might be affecting me lol.

Personally I think this is the same stage before the SHTF in Germany. Some people got out. Then the country was locked down. Is there a timeline? No. Do I sound nutty? Sure. But then, I assume most the people who fled back then sounded real nutty to their relatives as well.

I don't think about it daily though. Every now and then it occurs to me, but I still haven't fixed my passport w/ my married name and applied for dd's passport. *sigh*


/conspiracy vent

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#18 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 04:35 PM
 
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.....But then, I assume most the people who fled back then sounded real nutty to their relatives as well....
OMG! That does it - I'm getting my kids' passports!
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#19 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 04:36 PM
 
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There are way too many religious fundamentalists in this country, and let's not forget that this country was FOUNDED on the idea of religious freedom.

No matter what the gov't does in terms of healthcare availability, vaccine tracking, and vaccine-related paperwork for school nurses, religious exemptions to vaccinations will remain a reality.

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#20 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 06:13 PM
 
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I do fear this scenario and feel its quite possible. Right now in this country we have a boy being force fed chemo against his and his family's wishes. The government owns this child, but suffers no consequence if the boy dies from his treatment or ends up with a chronically impaired immune system. We also have our health secretary preparing us NOW for vaccine clinics in our schools come fall. Exemptions will not carry weight during epidemic and pandemic situations. Why do you think they passed legislation in 2006 absolving pharma from all liability from vaccines during pandemic situations. There is something big in the works - I hope they won't be able to pull it off, but the possibility is there.

I don't spend too much time worrying about it, but I am ready to leave everything, this country if I have to.
I just vomited in my mouth a little. I saw the reports on TV. It disgusted me how the spun it-an unfit mother denying treatment to a child. Whatever!!!
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#21 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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OMG! That does it - I'm getting my kids' passports!
Yes, I was especially affected by this emotional account from a Holocaust survivor:

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Elie-Wie...5361255&sr=8-4

Up until reading this book, I had read so much dry stuff that the emotional part of things was a bit stunted. It was a huge blow to read it.

In the beginning, the boy's friend survives being shot and shoved into a mass grave. He runs back to warn the town and is ignored and shunned as crazy. Even later, when some of his family could escape, they make a pact to stay together. IIRC only the author and maybe one of his sisters survive.

This one has more information:
http://www.amazon.com/Night-Trilogy-...5361442&sr=1-1

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#22 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 07:51 PM
 
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That's not entirely true...more and more health plans are covering ND's and other "alternative" practitioners such as chiropractors. My insurance covers these folks and if it didn't Id be screwed so I am thankful that they are covered. I doubt these type of folks would be covered by government run health coverage...
Medicaid covered my homebirth midwife (CPM) with no problem. I think it's just a matter of people standing up and demanding the coverage-- esp if the gov't gets control of healthcare.
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#23 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 08:28 PM
 
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I'm not scared. I truly think that Obama is a good person who sees reason when presented with it. I don't think that the gov't giving us healthcare is leading us down a path to Dictatorship. People sitting on their asses and not saying what they want is what may lead us there though.

That said...If it became mandated and I had no "out," I'd forge the shot records and move to France There's no out there either,but it wouldn't be the first time I've done it.

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#24 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 08:34 PM
 
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Not to get off topic, but I think that is the misconception about the "uninsured" in the US. Of the 6 million "uninsured" in CA, over half of them are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Ha!
um...would you care to provide some sort of back up for this claim?






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Also, being "uninsured" isn't that bad. If you don't have a chronic health condition or if you are one who avoids doctors at all costs, you don't need health insurance. Besides, most health insurances don't cover holistic/naturopathic doctors.
or if you say break a bone and a simple ER trip, x-rays, bone set, cast and follow up with orthopedist costs you $25,000 out of pocket, which means trying to take a second out on your home, if you are lucky enough to still have one in this state, rather than loose it to the hospital bills.
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#25 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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President Obama was also noted as stating that he is AGAINST choice when it comes to vaccinations.
Do you have a source for that?

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#26 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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I do fear this scenario and feel its quite possible. Right now in this country we have a boy being force fed chemo against his and his family's wishes. The government owns this child, but suffers no consequence if the boy dies from his treatment or ends up with a chronically impaired immune system. We also have our health secretary preparing us NOW for vaccine clinics in our schools come fall. Exemptions will not carry weight during epidemic and pandemic situations. Why do you think they passed legislation in 2006 absolving pharma from all liability from vaccines during pandemic situations. There is something big in the works - I hope they won't be able to pull it off, but the possibility is there.

I don't spend too much time worrying about it, but I am ready to leave everything, this country if I have to.
I couldn't of said it better myself. In my mind, it is up to me and me alone (well, my husband too) how our daughter is taken care of. I carried her inside me, had a homebirth for her safety as well as my own, and have never vaxed her, for her safety and in respect for her body. No one else should have the right to make decisions about her health but me. This case with the child with chemo has really freaked me out and Obama's not helping either. The three vaxes that will be administered this fall will kill and injure alot of people...there's no way around it. You know that little babies will be injected with all 3 and the same time and when something goes wrong, the blame will go elsewhere. On the CDC's website you can read that during an epidemic, all laws go out the window and they can mandate vaxes.

My plan is to gather up as much bulk foods as possible and store it away in case there is an "epidemic" and we are not allowed to leave with out vaxes. That way, we'll just hang out in the safety of our house until the craziness is over. Maybe I sound crazy, but its better to be prepared than unprepared.

Veda 9/06
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#27 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 10:05 PM
 
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um...would you care to provide some sort of back up for this claim?






or if you say break a bone and a simple ER trip, x-rays, bone set, cast and follow up with orthopedist costs you $25,000 out of pocket, which means trying to take a second out on your home, if you are lucky enough to still have one in this state, rather than loose it to the hospital bills.
Or, like in our case, your child breaks a bone and then they find a heartproblem at the ER and send them by ambulance to a children's hospital to spend the night in ICU...and then have followups to cardiologists and for the broken arm. That sent my insurance company into a fit, sending me letters trying to figure out if there was any way they didn't have to pay it. My portion alone was about 2000 just for the overnight stay....not even counting the 2 and 3hundred here and there that we had to pay for who knows what during that ordeal. It was a lot.

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#28 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 10:21 PM
 
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Lets keep on topic so the thread can stay on the board.
Thanks
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#29 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 10:30 PM
 
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It's bad enough that we need a "religious exemption" to get our kids in school (if we choose to public/private school), then Florida comes out with this "Florida Shots" tracking system that registers kids with the state so they know what shots they have had/still need (ha ha, DS's FS record is blank). Then I hear about Obama's plans for government-run health care...

My worst fear (related to vaccinating) is that this health care reform he is toting gets passed, all health care is regulated by the federal government, and we become felons for refusing to vaccinate our kids, and while we're in prison CPS takes it upon themselves to "play catch-up" on our kids vaccines.

Share my fears? Care to alleviate them?
In order for vaccine's to be federally mandated Obama's health care plan would first have to get rid of that pesky first amendment and abolish religious freedom. That's not going to happen.


(I'm not the one who took it off topic, but I still want to know why it was stated as though fact that half of those without health insurance in my state are living here while undocumented)
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#30 of 67 Old 06-18-2009, 10:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cristiaz View Post
I couldn't of said it better myself. In my mind, it is up to me and me alone (well, my husband too) how our daughter is taken care of. I carried her inside me, had a homebirth for her safety as well as my own, and have never vaxed her, for her safety and in respect for her body. No one else should have the right to make decisions about her health but me. This case with the child with chemo has really freaked me out and Obama's not helping either. The three vaxes that will be administered this fall will kill and injure alot of people...there's no way around it. You know that little babies will be injected with all 3 and the same time and when something goes wrong, the blame will go elsewhere. On the CDC's website you can read that during an epidemic, all laws go out the window and they can mandate vaxes.

My plan is to gather up as much bulk foods as possible and store it away in case there is an "epidemic" and we are not allowed to leave with out vaxes. That way, we'll just hang out in the safety of our house until the craziness is over. Maybe I sound crazy, but its better to be prepared than unprepared.
Too much Alex Jones or other "Fema Coffin surviving upcoming martial law"?

Gee, I am all for having a beef with unregulated conflict of interest in the FDA and CDC but heck, look again who you really have to thank for the Patriot Act. Why is every "they are out to get us" person going haywire NOW?

I have never read some much "gathering up food" stuff in the last 8 years- when you folks have been systematically stripped of basic rights as citizens. But I guess that was different. I didn't see Americans take to streets as they should have when "in the aftermath of 9/11" was a welcome excuse for about anything.
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