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#1 of 21 Old 09-11-2009, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, here I go. My first post here on Mothering.

I have a son who will be 3 this upcoming October. He is fully vaccinated. My DH and I wasn't sure if we wanted to vaccinate while we were pregnant with him. Bailey was born premature. Healthy, but early. We felt like we had to decide about vaccinations then and there and also felt pressured because he was a preemie. We heard a lot of, "A full term baby would simply get sick if they caught said disease, but your preemie could DIE!!!"

Well, we had another son, Silas, this past July and did our research this time. We feel that we don't want to vaccinate at all and want to stop any further vaccinations with Bailey. Silas has his 2 month appointment coming up- the appointment where they start vaccinating.

My question? I'm so nervous approaching our pediatrician about our decision. Can anyone give me strength? Words of advice? We love our pediatrician- but he has very strong opinions- most of which we have agreed with. But he is very very pro-vaccines. I know I'm going to get *that* look when I tell him no vaccines please. I just need someone to tell me to buck up and be strong. lol! How did you stand up to your doctor?
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#2 of 21 Old 09-12-2009, 02:16 AM
 
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He works for you. In all honesty, I'd find a new doctor. I don't feel that that fight is worth my time or emotional energy. Skip the 2-month visit (unless you've got specific concerns) and start networking for a doctor who respects the fact that it is _your_ responsibility to make healthcare decisions for your children. Flat out, your responsibility.

I guess that's not exactly what you're asking, but there are other doctors out there who you will probably like just as much who won't give you grief over this. Easier to find if you broaden your criteria to include FPs and GPs. And I'm worried your good relationship with the doctor, who you like so much, will go downhill fast if he is as pro-vaccine as this and you are now not willing to vaccinate.

If you decide to go in, if he doesn't accept a basic no, I'm not interested in that today, you can fall back on your spouse, my DH is not comfortable with.... Because he's not there, you can blame him (DH and I have both used variants of this at times, it's quite useful).
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#3 of 21 Old 09-12-2009, 05:17 AM
 
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Wow, do you feel taken advantage of when you have to pay the doctor bills?

What if you said "no garlic, please" at a restaurant and your waiter gave you that 'look' because he has 'very strong opinions'? Would you tip him? Complain to the manager?

If he's set in his opinion...(and that's a very good description of what it is) then maybe it's time to look for a new employee.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#4 of 21 Old 09-12-2009, 06:21 AM
 
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Keep in mind that the pediatrician DEEPLY believes in what he does for a living. DEEPLY. These individuals that vaccinate children have to believe deeply or they wouldn't be able to sleep at night. They see reactions to vaccines whether they acknowledge it or not. This is why they have created the risk to benefit belief system. It assuages guilt. They hear about paralysis and death of healthy children after vaccination. There HAS to be a benefit from vaccination otherwise they are just putting healthy children in harm's way for no reason.

If someone challenges the necessity, or worse yet the safety, of vaccination, it is like saying, "I don't trust you." This is turn creates cognitive dissonance within the person who injects vaccinations into children. How could anyone in his or her right mind not trust the doctor? That means you don't trust what the doctor is doing. What's there not to trust? This is where the anger comes from. It makes that individual take a quick glimpse at the possibility that what he or she is doing to a child is not actually a good thing. This is not emotionally or psychologically acceptable.

Expect an offended reaction. It's going to happen. He may be nice at first because he is thinking you just read some stuff on the crazy Internet and you've been brainwashed by conspiracy theorists who hate babies, kittens, sunshine and hot apple pie. He may play along at first remembering what his professional association has said about naive, ignorant parents. But understand that underneath all that the cognitive dissonance is bubbling and it can come out in a wide variety of ways.

In my life, I have chosen not to invite people in who I know are just going to annoy me at best. I personally don't see the point of a person called a pediatrician because I don't see the point of what they do. There are many highly intelligent and effective healthcare practitioners out there who can be of assistance if a child needs help that don't inject known toxins into the child's system.

Everything except food, water and breathing is a choice. Good luck.

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde
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#5 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 02:55 AM
 
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I would look into switching doctors its not worth the time and energy. Especially if he is pro-vax and set in his ways you will not switch his mind!
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#6 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 03:23 AM
 
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I agree, it's most likely time for a new pediatrician.

Why don't you give him a call first, and tell him that you are not going to vaccinate this child at all, and ask if he will support you in your decision or not? In my town, many pediatricians will not accept patients who do not vaccinate, others will accept it but will say clearly that they don't agree, others are perfectly on board and don't mind at all if their patients don't vaccinate. Chances are, he will tell you right up front that he won't allow a patient to be unvaccinated and you can move on from there.

Then start calling all the other pediatricians in town and ask the same questions.
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#7 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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I agree, it's most likely time for a new pediatrician.

Why don't you give him a call first, and tell him that you are not going to vaccinate this child at all, and ask if he will support you in your decision or not? In my town, many pediatricians will not accept patients who do not vaccinate, others will accept it but will say clearly that they don't agree, others are perfectly on board and don't mind at all if their patients don't vaccinate. Chances are, he will tell you right up front that he won't allow a patient to be unvaccinated and you can move on from there.

Then start calling all the other pediatricians in town and ask the same questions.
: Easier over the phone than in person too. Good luck!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#8 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 09:09 PM
 
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Get your records.
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#9 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 10:01 PM
 
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Is your 2 month old sick? If things are going well with your baby I just would not even go to the well baby visit. The main purpose of the well baby visit is for the vaccinations. I have not vaccinated my last two babies and so I skipped the well baby visits. Now it seams silly to me that I would take my "well" baby to see the doctor and expose my baby to all the other sick children.

LDS, natural birthing,, , mom to 6 super fun crazy kids!
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#10 of 21 Old 09-14-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scattershoot View Post
Keep in mind that the pediatrician DEEPLY believes in what he does for a living. DEEPLY. These individuals that vaccinate children have to believe deeply or they wouldn't be able to sleep at night. They see reactions to vaccines whether they acknowledge it or not. This is why they have created the risk to benefit belief system. It assuages guilt. They hear about paralysis and death of healthy children after vaccination. There HAS to be a benefit from vaccination otherwise they are just putting healthy children in harm's way for no reason.

If someone challenges the necessity, or worse yet the safety, of vaccination, it is like saying, "I don't trust you." This is turn creates cognitive dissonance within the person who injects vaccinations into children. How could anyone in his or her right mind not trust the doctor? That means you don't trust what the doctor is doing. What's there not to trust? This is where the anger comes from. It makes that individual take a quick glimpse at the possibility that what he or she is doing to a child is not actually a good thing. This is not emotionally or psychologically acceptable.

Expect an offended reaction. It's going to happen. He may be nice at first because he is thinking you just read some stuff on the crazy Internet and you've been brainwashed by conspiracy theorists who hate babies, kittens, sunshine and hot apple pie. He may play along at first remembering what his professional association has said about naive, ignorant parents. But understand that underneath all that the cognitive dissonance is bubbling and it can come out in a wide variety of ways.

In my life, I have chosen not to invite people in who I know are just going to annoy me at best. I personally don't see the point of a person called a pediatrician because I don't see the point of what they do. There are many highly intelligent and effective healthcare practitioners out there who can be of assistance if a child needs help that don't inject known toxins into the child's system.

Everything except food, water and breathing is a choice. Good luck.
Excellent post! Very thought-provoking and very true. I really like your explanation of what the doctor is thinking/what his reaction might be to those who question vaccines.

However, I believe that doctors don't really do their own research into vaccines and whether or not they are harmful. Yes, I respect my doctor's opinion when it comes to medical management in general but do I trust that he has thought about all the side effects of certain treatments (including vaccines) that he recommends? No.
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#11 of 21 Old 09-14-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scattershoot View Post
Keep in mind that the pediatrician DEEPLY believes in what he does for a living. DEEPLY. These individuals that vaccinate children have to believe deeply or they wouldn't be able to sleep at night. They see reactions to vaccines whether they acknowledge it or not. This is why they have created the risk to benefit belief system. It assuages guilt. They hear about paralysis and death of healthy children after vaccination. There HAS to be a benefit from vaccination otherwise they are just putting healthy children in harm's way for no reason.

If someone challenges the necessity, or worse yet the safety, of vaccination, it is like saying, "I don't trust you." This is turn creates cognitive dissonance within the person who injects vaccinations into children. How could anyone in his or her right mind not trust the doctor? That means you don't trust what the doctor is doing. What's there not to trust? This is where the anger comes from. It makes that individual take a quick glimpse at the possibility that what he or she is doing to a child is not actually a good thing. This is not emotionally or psychologically acceptable.

Expect an offended reaction. It's going to happen. He may be nice at first because he is thinking you just read some stuff on the crazy Internet and you've been brainwashed by conspiracy theorists who hate babies, kittens, sunshine and hot apple pie. He may play along at first remembering what his professional association has said about naive, ignorant parents. But understand that underneath all that the cognitive dissonance is bubbling and it can come out in a wide variety of ways.

In my life, I have chosen not to invite people in who I know are just going to annoy me at best. I personally don't see the point of a person called a pediatrician because I don't see the point of what they do. There are many highly intelligent and effective healthcare practitioners out there who can be of assistance if a child needs help that don't inject known toxins into the child's system.

Everything except food, water and breathing is a choice. Good luck.
:

i had a simliar issue finding a pediatric dentist... and for any doctor trying to lay hand on my child... if they aren't seeing eye to eye on medical matters it can quickly turn into a very negative situation... and i am finding i will have to pay for alternative practitioners, it's getting expensive but either way my insurance isn't making a big difference mainstream or holistic... but sacrificing things in my budget, and there's not much to sacrifice.. i find that i can 'sleep better' because i know the doctor is like minded or at least open to people with my concerns and won't come back and create negative backlash towards my parental decisions and rights in a manner i would get from a mainstream doctor, when dealing with children mainstream doctors know they can manipulate you.. holistic doctors are not as focused on compliance and complacence and profit they are proactive and i have never felt threatened in thier presence .... what ever my choices may be... i keep looking and i have been able find a holistic doctor .. i have to travel up to 50 miles but it's well worth the peace of mind. Every one of them let me make payments... and always made time to call back, listen to me and never ever disrespected my choices.. these doctors are holistic they are dental surgeons, Mds... i really don't have many doctors.. we've not needed them in my house... i got a funny look from a doctor once when he asked about what medications my son has had... i said none... he looked at me in disbelief... he kept saying are you sure... i said positively...my son never spit up, first time he threw up he was 5, we had swine flu for a few days nothing much else except possible rota at about 4 yrs from the kids next door, they were just vaxed for it....
holistic physicians are out there.. .don't give up and keep learning.. reading... mod med is all about profit control and compliance they do not care a hoooot about the patient

If you can't find a PEDI look for a FAMILY PRACTICE... the one i found is Excellent... don't go to a doctor if he makes you anxious, you'll be ok.
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#12 of 21 Old 09-19-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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I'm sure that in Eugene, of ALL places, you can find someone who doesn't force you to vax.
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#13 of 21 Old 09-20-2009, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone. Sorry it's been a bit since I've checked back in to read my messages. Thanks for all the info and advice.

I think though most of you have misunderstood what I was asking. I really, really like my pediatrician. I don't want to find another. And I'm sure if I do find a ped who is okay with not vaccinating I'm sure there will be a different subject we'll disagree on. And that's okay. I don't need to agree with everything they say- I do not believe doctors have the end-all say in medical knowledge.

I just was looking to see if there were other parents out there who did say to their ped, "Hey doc. Sorry, but I'm not going to vaccinate." And I was curious to see how it played out. How did you handle it??

I am absolutely willing to find a new doctor if the experience is utterly horrible and negative, but I don't want to jump the wagon too soon. Like I said, I know he is very pro-vaccinations and I know he'll disapprove of my choice, but again, I'm okay with that. I am just a bit nervous and again, wanted to hear similar stories.

Thanks again!!!
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#14 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 03:54 AM
 
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Well, the best case scenario is that he won't ask you to leave his practice and that he may be able to still treat your child without that bias in the back of his mind. (Some doctors simply have a bias towards children who are not vaccinated and cannot overcome it. You'll need to be aware of this so you can find someone who meets your child's needs better in the event you find the doctor is like this.)

Your doctor is TRAINED to believe vaccines are best and no matter what you say or do you cannot make him respond in a way he is not programmed to do. I am sorry to say that what you want may not be realistic. Be prepared for the event that you may need to find someone else.

As far as "if it's not one thing it's another"...if you aren't vaxing, what will you need him for? Will you continue to have the regular well-checks? Just come in for fevers and ear infections? Or reserve him for the near-emergencies that arise? Having a clear idea of what you expect from him and asking him if he is comfortable working with you as a partner in those ways may be one way of approaching a possible "new" arrangement. Have a plan and suggest it to him and then sit back and see where the chips fall.

You have received a lot of good advice upthread from ppl who have BTDT. It's worth thinking about.

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#15 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 06:36 AM
 
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I never really chose my DD's pediatrician. I never really thought about it. Growing up, it didn't seem like it was a big thing for me. But nowadays, you better name a doctor or the hospital staff will be up in arms. Digressing...but anyway, the hospital provided a ped who worked with them regularly but had his own office elsewhere. I went along with the visits because I was afraid someone would come knocking on my door claiming x, y, and z, and take my baby from me. Irrational fear most likely, but I was a first time mother, so I cut myself some slack there.

We saw the ped a few times within just a week because my DD's bilirubin level was rising and I was deathly afraid of any and everything. He seemed like the sweetest, most gentle man on the face of the earth and I decided I really liked him. Then we went in for her 2 month checkup. I was able to get by without the vaxes by using her bilirubin as my excuse before. See, I was still researching and it only made sense to delay until I was sure. By her 2 month appointment, I was sure, and I went in there confident that the nice ped would, at worst, try to persuade me to change my mind. I would have never imagined he'd do a complete 180 on me though.

He was so angry, he spent all his time arguing with me. I was firm in my decision and he all but told me I was a criminal and he never wanted to see my face again.
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#16 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Again, thanks everyone!

Ritske, that's too bad. It sounded like it was going to be a good relationship.


Well, I just got back from the 2 month appointment. I am very lucky! Things went so great. So great that it makes me feel foolish that I was so nervous about it.

I told him that my husband and I have done a lot of research and thinking and we're not comfortable vaccinating. That we don't plan on furthering Bailey's vaccinations and not starting vaccines at all for Silas. He said that he's not ambivalent with this choice. That he strongly suggests vaccinations, but that's okay. My boys are doing great, he's not worried about them. And that was it!
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#17 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 09:02 PM
 
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I'm so happy to hear about your positive experience! I live in the pacific northwest as well and I know that we have a rather larger number of unvaccinated children. When I decided to stop, my pediatrician was 100% fine with it, didn't bat an eyelash. No form to fill out, no death threats. You read about the horror stories of pediatricians and almost die of anticipation and anxiety before the appointment. I bet many doctors are just fine with it, but the horror stories are the ones to share and read.

Anyway, it sounds like you had an excellent appointment. I'm so happy it all turned out well.
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#18 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 09:24 PM
 
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Again, thanks everyone!

Ritske, that's too bad. It sounded like it was going to be a good relationship.


Well, I just got back from the 2 month appointment. I am very lucky! Things went so great. So great that it makes me feel foolish that I was so nervous about it.

I told him that my husband and I have done a lot of research and thinking and we're not comfortable vaccinating. That we don't plan on furthering Bailey's vaccinations and not starting vaccines at all for Silas. He said that he's not ambivalent with this choice. That he strongly suggests vaccinations, but that's okay. My boys are doing great, he's not worried about them. And that was it!
Phew! What a relief that must have been! And now you don't need to look elsewhere, so happy for you!

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#19 of 21 Old 09-22-2009, 01:09 PM
 
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I visited Eugene last summer cuz we thought about moving there. First, I checked into how many naturopathic docs there were and there were a lot! Switch doctors! ND's and NMD's learn about prevention and treating the causes of illness. Regular MD's learn what drugs to prescribe for what. Big difference.

Also, as their mother...you are there doctor! No one knows your kids better than you. Doctors are just human being who make a lot money. Find a doctor who won't give you hell about not vaxing...do all your own research...and find a naturopath there for assistance when necessary.

P.S. An NMD is a doctor who went to regular medical and decided to go the naturopathic route and got more schooling in that area. An ND just has a degree in naturopathy.

Veda 9/06
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#20 of 21 Old 09-22-2009, 05:10 PM
 
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I am brand new to this site and am trying to figure out how to post a new thread?
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#21 of 21 Old 09-22-2009, 06:09 PM
 
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I am brand new to this site and am trying to figure out how to post a new thread?
If you want to post in Not Vaccinating, you'll see a box that says new thread, just click that.

Veda 9/06
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