"The Research you read is wrong" thanks doc! (vent) - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Had DD's 6mo well baby visit (basically so I can learn her weight etc.), we did 1 round of vax's and then that was it per mommy's orders. I explained this our Ped at the 4month visit and while he disagreed he said respected my decision as the parent. It was nice and I appreciated the understanding he gave...

So today he goes "ok final round of shots for a while today". To which I replied in confusion along the lines of "uh no, she's not getting any more shots."
Ped then acted like he had no idea what I was talking about and asked me why I came to that decision. I re-explained (I did it the first time), that it was our decision as husband and wife and parents to DD, we had done plenty of research and were choosing not to continue at this point, done deal." My Ped's reply was "well the research you are reading is wrong." Gee thanks buddy
He then added that there were no large scale studies done that showed any harm from vaxes and that if it were true he most certainly would have read about it and provided the literature to his patients." I didn't say anything but man was I fuming.

He then muttered something about how while it is my decision the "responsibility" lies with the parent to make good choices, i.e I am making bad choices by not vaxing. Fortunately the only good point of the visit was that it is our last because we are moving before I will be bringing DD back to any Ped. She won't be going again for at least 1/2 a year!

Then I got to thinking about all that I have read and studied and taken the time to learn and was trying to think of sources to send to his office or at least make myself feel better with and all i can think of is emotionally how pissed I am at him. Sigh, I wish I had the numbers right there with me all the time.
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#2 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 08:20 PM
 
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There are plenty of studies. All flawed in some way.

The primate study only had thirteen monkeys.

The Wakefield study only had +/-25 children

The SIDS study done at UCLA by Dr. Baraff in 1986 showed only correlationship, not causation between the time of the DPT vax and SIDS incidence.

The Danish autism study was flawed.

Scholarly, peer reviewed, scientifically done studies are often funded by the pharmaceutical houses and are geared to show vaccines in a good way. Often information that will show the vaccines to be bad is tossed before the study is finished.

The Olmstead Amish studies ignore a possible genetic component or a Founder's syndrome.

The most damning information against vaccines are in the paediatric journals. This is true.

Read all studies with a good dictionary at your fingertips. Read the follow-up studies. Make up your own mind. You are intelligent enough to do this.

All research is flawed in some way. It just depends on what you want to know and believe to be honest. Your pediatrician has his bias and you have yours. No problem. Just keep researching. Most of it is repetitive, but it will hone your knowledge and POV.
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#3 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 08:24 PM
 
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((hugs)) I don't even argue with my pedi. I never sited research or anything I simply say "We don't vaccinate for religious reasons." and leave it at that. It seems like if you say the magic 'r-word' they are too scared to make waves.

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#4 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 08:25 PM
 
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Our old pedi said the exact same things to us. At one point he even said, "I only want what's best for him [DS]" (as if we, his parents, didn't!)

He also cited numbers of things like deaths from Hib that were TOTALLY off.

So we don't see that pedi anymore, needless to say!!

I know how frustrating it is!

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#5 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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I actually wanted to DISCUSS the research w/my ped (i.e. actually have some back and forth and give him an opportunity to convince me beyond fearmongering). He got very defensive and said "Fine, fine! I don't care if you vaccinate them for things like polio, tetanus, whatever, but they *have* to have HIB and Prevnar!" uhhh... ok... so I said "ok, but how effective are they and how safe are they?" and he said "they're 100% safe and 100% effective"... um, sorry, but nothing's that good. Totally lost all his credibility to me.

There *is* proof that it's not completely safe - it's called the vaccine inserts. They tell you how often even the "rare" side effects happen. So, uh, technically he's full out wrong. There *are* studies that indicate that occasionally harm comes to people getting the vaccine... and the vaccine makers even admit it. Next time direct him to read the vaccine insert.

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#6 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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Sorry you went through this. This is my primary frustration with going to the docs office. We don't go for well visits anymore. DS did have a few rounds of vaccines at first, before I did my research. We only go now when DS is sick, or when he had some eczema problems. Which still, the visits can be counted on two hands. I can't believe he straight up said, the research you read was wrong. That is stinky. I hope you find an office you mesh well with when you move.

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#7 of 16 Old 12-18-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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I got that once from the same ped who said she understood after dd's reaction why we don't vaccinate right now, but we had to get both kids vaccinated for chickenpox or else they would DIE!!!!!. Yeah whatever. When she started in about how I couldn't possibly know as much as the researchers (mind you I'm a pretty smart gal AND for all she knew I could've been employed as a vax developer!), I simply told her that if she knew of a more reputable source of information than the vaccine inserts and data from the cdc and vax manufacturers, I'd be glad to review it. She shut up then - and we never went back.
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#8 of 16 Old 12-19-2009, 12:34 AM
 
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Outstanding!
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#9 of 16 Old 12-19-2009, 12:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SunshineJ View Post
if she knew of a more reputable source of information than the vaccine inserts and data from the cdc and vax manufacturers, I'd be glad to review it. She shut up then - and we never went back.
This is exactly what I would say if I were to engage in that discussion with my ped.

A, jammin.gif mama to a boy (2005) and a girl (2009)
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#10 of 16 Old 12-19-2009, 12:59 PM
 
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Advisers on Vaccines Often Have Conflicts

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#11 of 16 Old 12-20-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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That sucks. I just reiterate w/ our ped everytime we see her "when you can explain to me why vaccine manufactures need immunity, when there soo safe and effective, I'll consider vaccinating". And she drops it
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#12 of 16 Old 12-20-2009, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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ahh I love coming here to make myself feel good about things like this. Always nice to read that I am not crazy or a bad mommy.
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#13 of 16 Old 12-22-2009, 12:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mamadelbosque View Post
That sucks. I just reiterate w/ our ped everytime we see her "when you can explain to me why vaccine manufactures need immunity, when there soo safe and effective, I'll consider vaccinating". And she drops it
I like this response but I always just bite my lip to keep myself out of a never ending debate
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#14 of 16 Old 12-22-2009, 12:37 PM
 
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We just went to the ped yesterday for my 3 youngers one (ages 2, 8 and 11). We are pursuing adoption and they had to have physicals. Of course, the issue of vaccines came up. They did with the same ped with my 14 yo and I told him we are not doing them and his "pet" vaccine for her was the Hpv vaccine!!! No way! Well, yesterday, I decided to ask him what he thought I should start with for my unvaxed 2 yo if we decide to get some and spread them out. (I was curious what he would say was most important because I sometimes worry about hib) He said it is important to get the ones that come in a series done??? LOL!! I thought that was so strange. He wasn't talking about the diseases themselves, he was just talking about the series and making sure you finish the series so they have good immunity. I specifically asked about hib and told him that is the one I worry about sometimes and he said that 25 years ago he saw kids dying all the time from hib. Not sure what to think about that because I don't know the #'s pre vaccine. Anyway, if that is true, why didn't he say hib first?? It was strange to me. He went on to comment about how healthy my kids are and how wonderful they are and how great it is that I have given the 2 yo such a good start by bf'ing for so long...till he was a little over 2. He then said all the vaccines are very important. I asked him if he thinks vaccines lower the immune system...he said "no". I asked him about serotype replacement...he said "bacteria are very smart!". I asked him about more children having autoimmune disorders and if he is seeing more of this...he said "no".??? I asked him about reactions....he said "they are all very safe". Soooo, it was kinda pointless to ask him any questions or discuss this with him. He was nice, just viewed vaccines as the "sacred cow" that most of society does.
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#15 of 16 Old 12-29-2009, 01:59 AM
 
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DS went to his 18 month appt with a lacerated finger that got him into the ER and seen by a hand specialist, etc....the pedi was the only one who told me that DS would DIE if we didn't get a DTaP shot in him straight away. I told him that I thought any tetanus shot he got then wouldn't affect his present injury, he backpeddled mutting something about the future... my DH was shitting his pants, the pressure was intense but I still stood up to this pedi and said NO and we now have a new one who I found from MDC member referrals, we're much happier.
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#16 of 16 Old 01-05-2010, 12:42 AM
 
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I don't debate with Ped any more, and I don't say it's for religious reasons. If your ped isn't okay with you saying "I'm the parent and this is what I have found is best for my child, and it is my choice" get a new Ped. You want a Dr. who respects you as a parents.
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