We got declined for Japan. UPDATE - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-28-2010, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelisagemini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

The doctor declined us for Japan, and now it's being sent to the overseas screeners.
The way they were talking made it sound like we're screwed. She was being so contradictory also. Like saying one got sent back because they hadn't been vax'ed for H1N1, but then told me that if I was willing to do an alternative schedule that they would probably put us through??????????
That makes no sense.
Then telling me that smallpox and measles are common there...umm babies aren't routinely vax'ed for small pox and you can get measles here too!!!

I'm just so tired. So defeated.

She said repeatedly that they will send him without us, and at best we can hope that they will change it a one year tour.

I don't know what the final word will be but the doc said that there are NO exemptions for PCS'ing.
I don't know how to fight this, who to fight.....
It shouldn't be a fight in the first place. I had the regs from EmmelineII with me and they didn't care.

My husband's gunny said she would put in a fight for us, but I don't know if that will do any good..



ETA: WE'RE APPROVED!!! We're going to Japan together.
 The doctor originally said no, but the overseas screeners, the final decision people approved it anyway, no fighting necessary. YES!!!!

angelisagemini is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-28-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,933
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hugs mama... I do think there is a way... Did they give you anything in writing?
I would want something written up, signed, with a name so you can file something against it. Saying isn't enough.
I think the doctor is trying to scare you into complying. Fight it big time. Write commanders, go to JAG, don't leave a page unturned.
I'm sure Emmeline knows something else, too. It is so tortuous to file an exemption, and all the regs are twisted as well. Which service are you guys in?
nia82 is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:16 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do not let this stand; JAPAN does NOT require vaccines for visitors. You are no more required to be vaccinated to be in Japan than you are stateside.

All that I have read up to this point said that the vaccinations are recommendations (except those required by the host country, which there are none) and are not requirements per reg (though you can be denied assignment for any reason). Valrock is a Navy spouse here whose family was cleared for Japan a couple of months ago. You don't need an exemption because there is nothing to be exempt from (though you would need one for the CDC or DODs later--religious).

I would go ahead and file an IG complaint (I would let the gunny know that you are prepared to do so); the Navy has no right to separate dependents from their sponsors based on vaccination status.

NAVMED 13001/2; it says that immunization requirements are "assignment specific" and "meet destination country requirements" (there are none required by Japan).

I've known at least 4 people on another are in Japan or going; and they are all Navy and not vaxing! Not all Navy dependents to Japan are being treated the same; at least this treatment is very recent (since about Jan 09). Oddly enough, though they cited an Army reg. I don't know any overseas Army dependents with this problem; it's just the Navy.

Advice from an Officer:


*

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelisagemini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the support ladies. It hasn't been "finalized" yet. The doc doing the screening brought in the immunization supervisor. They both kept saying that they HAVE to decline me but that it's not up to them whether we're accepted or not. She was walking our declined files over to the people who make the final decision.
They basically gave us zero hope and said they had never met someone who didn't vax at all. BS.
I WILL fight for this. Tooth and nail if need be, which apparently it is.

We're Marine Corp.
angelisagemini is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelisagemini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Emmeline, I had printed out that form that says "required if due, or specified for destination country" They said that meant that we had to be up to date with CDC regs.
I also had the DODEA regs that mention religious exemptions and she said they won't care about school regs. I was hoping it would show some sort of precedent.
angelisagemini is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Valrock must already be in Japan; she hasn't posted in a couple of months, but here is her thread to read through: I am just so tired. (1 2 3 )

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelisagemini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Emmeline, you're always so helpful. I've read that thread and basically every other thread you've given advice on, lol. What part of heaven did you fall from?
I emailed her through her profile awhile back but she didn't respond.
angelisagemini is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelisagemini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well I guess at this point there is nothing to do but wait for their final decision.
My husband supports me 100% and is just as ready to fight this as I am. Hopefully it's just another case of people not really having a clue on how to do their jobs and what is/isn't allowed.
angelisagemini is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:13 PM
 
Maluhia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: in Paradise with my Papaya!
Posts: 4,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SO frustrating but please do file complaints about this intimidation behavior after they allow you to go to Japan since there is no legal requirement not to let you.

Your User Agreement here at MDC, read it and make it your friend and read the FAQ to answer all the questions of the (MDC) world.
Maluhia is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:24 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelisagemini View Post
Emmeline, I had printed out that form that says "required if due, or specified for destination country" They said that meant that we had to be up to date with CDC regs.
I also had the DODEA regs that mention religious exemptions and she said they won't care about school regs. I was hoping it would show some sort of precedent.

Personally, I would not focus on exemptions for now. I would focus on the fact that the United States Navy is attempting to blackmail dependents into vaccinating by threatening to keep them separated from the member.

OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D
it says that immunization requirements are "assignment specific" and "meet destination country requirements" (there are none required by Japan--the destination country has no requirements). Without vaccination requirement from the destination country, the Navy would have a problem justifying denying command sponsorship ONLY for dependents going overseas..


AND

Quote:
Family members
with medical conditions or disabilities requiring specialized
medical, educational or related services will not be transferred
to areas where those needs cannot be met.
OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D

Checking the "no" box (particularly on the top part which has no 'shaded boxes')on the 1300 does not mean you are not suitable to go overseas; there is no "have to" about it.

Quote:
IF ANY OF THE ABOVE SHADED BLOCKS ARE CHECKED, QUERY THE GAINING MEDICAL TREATMENT FACILITY OR MEDICAL DEPARTMENT SUPPORTING THE OVERSEAS, REMOTE DUTY OR OPERATIONAL LOCATION CONCERNING LOCAL CAPABILITIES TO PROVIDE REQUIRED SUPPORT.
DOD Form NAVMED 13001/2

This merely sparks a query to the gaining base to check if they can accommodate your medical problem. Being under or not vaccinated does no mean you are ill or otherwise physically unfit.


OPNAV INSTRUCTION 1300.14D
SUITABILITY SCREENING FOR OVERSEAS AND REMOTE DUTY
ASSIGNMENT


The purpose of the Suitability for Overseas Remote Duty regulation is to determine:

Quote:
Fitness to meet requirements of overseas/remote assignments. Servicemembers and
family members do not possess any performance, disciplinary,
financial, educational, psychological, and medical or other
physical attributes that would preclude successful completion of
an overseas/remote assignment.

Being under or unvaccinated is not a special medical condition that requires specialized care or care that cannot be provided by the host country. There is no justifiable reason why you cannot go to Japan based on your vaccination status.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would emphasize that JAPAN does not require vaccines for visitors and the United States government does not require vaccines for citizens.

If dependents and United States citizens are not required to be vaccinated by law while in or leaving the United States, and JAPAN does not require the vaccinations, they have no right to try and force them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:25 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelisagemini View Post
Well I guess at this point there is nothing to do but wait for their final decision.
My husband supports me 100% and is just as ready to fight this as I am. Hopefully it's just another case of people not really having a clue on how to do their jobs and what is/isn't allowed.
Well of course it is; I KNOW (online) a few Navy spouses currently in Japan and they or their children are not vaxed.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 10:00 AM
 
treemom2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 3,758
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know you've read the other threads about coming to Japan and vaxing. I just wanted to let you know that I'm sending you hugs. . .I know it's a tough process for you.

Barbara:  an always learning SAHM of Ilana (11) and Aiden (8) living in Belgium with my amazing husband.

treemom2 is offline  
Old 02-10-2010, 12:27 AM
 
Kerimommyof2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Keri
Non-Vax~No-Circ~T4L-Homeschooler~co-sleep~EBF~"Crunchy" SAHM to DD &DS
Kerimommyof2 is offline  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
angelisagemini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
bump for update.
angelisagemini is offline  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:43 AM
 
treemom2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 3,758
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelisagemini View Post
ETA: WE'RE APPROVED!!! We're going to Japan together.
From the beginning I said we didn't vax for religious reasons. I even wrote it on the papers. The doctor originally said no, but the overseas screeners, the final decision people approved it anyway, no fighting necessary. YES!!!!
I am so happy for you My family loves it here. . .it's such a wonderful place to live, especially with a family!!! Let me know if you need any help, cultural questions, housing questions (even though we might not be on the same base, I've been in Japan a long time), etc. . . I love it here and I'd love to help make your transition easier (especially after all you've already had to go through).

Barbara:  an always learning SAHM of Ilana (11) and Aiden (8) living in Belgium with my amazing husband.

treemom2 is offline  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
Old 03-22-2010, 03:44 AM
 
mayasmum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego, USA
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow!Thank goodness - my dh is Navy and I am choosing to delay/not vax our preemie!! I just about had heart failure when I saw this thread
There is a small possibility that we may go to the Middle East for a year..Bahrain. If not, then I am staying in Cali, with my lovely ped who is pretty dern understanding

edited to say - congrats btw!!!! - I wish the USA schedule was more like Japans....I am a Brit here, and even we have less vaxes on our schedule and our country is normally up Americas behind lol

Sarah, mum to Maya and Zachary
mayasmum is offline  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:25 PM
 
hippiemommaof4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: fort benning ga, just left alaska
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yay! glad you get to go...I am so tired of the military and their bullying crap with vaxes btdt myself in situations with the military.

 Jess mom to 5!!! 3 boys 2 girls and another girl on the way edd jan 31st! I have a Disabled veteran husband
breastfeeding,cosleeping, non vax,no circ,and nature loving family!

hippiemommaof4 is offline  
Old 11-17-2010, 11:02 PM
 
jlk252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I want to give some very helpful info to any NAVY family trying to go overseas and have issues with unvaccinated family memebers.  WE are in Italy(guess we slipped through the cracks getting here) and were denied to move to Spain with my husbands command because of the clause in BUMED instructions 1300 about there being no mechanism for requesting a waiver for unvaccianted family members.  Well, we hired a lawyer who took it straight to the cheif of BUMED.   GREAT NEWS!!!!!   They agreed that the policy was inconsistant and that waivers should be granted and I believe they are going to revise those instructions.  Howeever, if you need help with this sort of situation, contact:

Cdr. Sal Maida, 202-762-3077, Bureau of Medicine and Surgery, Washington D.C

Please spread the word about this and give everyone this Cdr's info! (NAVY of course)

 

 

He said to contact him for any waiver issues.  We are so glad that woe could spend some $ to get this issue resolved for other families facing teh same issue.  Of course, it is too late for us as my husband orders got changed and we leave in 2 weeks for the USA.  But, we will try for overseas orders again in the future.

 

Oh, if you need a lawyers help for any waivers, contact Alan phillips at vaccinerights.com

jlk252 is offline  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Synchronicity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

That is WONDERFUL news!!!!!!! Justice has prevailed :) This is so great for you and your family.

Synchronicity is offline  
Old 12-31-2010, 09:16 AM
 
mom61508's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Are you having these issues only because your military? I'm curious because we are going to Japan in april and I don't vax either but from what I have read it shouldn't be an issue? We aren't military btw.  What part are you going to? I will be in Hiroshima.

mom61508 is offline  
Old 01-07-2011, 07:13 AM
 
MaddieMay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We are another military family (Navy) being told we will most likely be denied for overseas orders to Guam due to our selective/delay vax status. I've read the instruction and it does say no waivers, but I just don't get how that is fair. I hate it and I have no idea what we are going to do.:( DH did say he'd contact BUMED once we got an official denial, any other ideas?

A supportive military wife and mama to my busy boy and sweet girl.
MaddieMay is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 05:28 PM
 
flightwitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Hello,

 

My husband is trying to get stationed in Italy and we have stopped the Vax of our 2 year old son when he was 4 months old, I was wondering if anyone has any new news about PCSing to Italy with out of date vax. I'm a stay at home mom now so I have no problem keeping my son at home if there is any type of out break. We don't have orders yet...hubby is deployed right now and we have been talking about going back over seas again. If we do get clearance can my great baby go to the day cares or can I just start one at my house? It would be nice to be around like minded people when it comes to our kids.

 

Thanks,

Misty

flightwitch is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off