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#1 of 41 Old 03-29-2010, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have been trying since December to get my children re-enrolled into the AF base daycare center since they were kicked out for not being vaxed. DS had a few delayed vaxes at first, but DD has had none. I filed religious exemption letter as found on here, and a DODea form for exeption and printed out the regulations also found from here. (Thanks so much guys). The director of the daycare, and the AF Family Services flight chief have not allowed my children to return with this, and said my request was sent to headquarters AF and then I was told it was sent to Air Staff. All completely unnessecary if you ask me. Any way, after several months and using my chain of command, I have finally filed an IG complaint. It is being worked, but its been a couple more weeks since then. And the IG said that they believe I have a case and they are working it and they are having the same problem, that everyone seems to be avoiding the true question.

So I'm here to ask if there is anyone out here that has enrolled their children at a base Child Development Center with a religious exemption sucessfully and if they could just give me the name of the base, AF preferably, but any branch could help. I would just like to be able to reference the bases and show that it is being done, and this is not a waiver from the policy. Can PM me too if you want.

I know it's crazy, its there in black and white in the regs, but some how they just keep ingnoring that part. It's funny, when I get something in writing they site the exact reg I am-AFJI 48-110, same paragraph and everything, only they site the first sentenance or two and ignore the rest of the paragraph that says "religious exemption". It's just getting really old now, I thought getting the IG involved would be a much faster fix.

BTW: I had absolutly no problem at all putting them into a daycare center off base with religious exemption, they didn't even bat an eye.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me.

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#2 of 41 Old 03-29-2010, 06:19 PM
 
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I'm trying to think....I've heard of many people trying to get their kids into military childcare without vax but I can't think of anyone who has done it successfully.

Honestly, I'd stick with the off base center even if you eventually get the OK to have them in the military based childcare. I'd be concerned about the care they were receiving because of the "drama" you created. (I don't say that against you at all - it's ridiculous what it takes to get a non-vax'd child into anything in the military. I just say it out of genuine concern for your kids because I've seen crap like that happen).

Jenn
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#3 of 41 Old 03-29-2010, 06:22 PM
 
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I'm so sorry for you! I think there are mamas who have successfully handed in a vaccination waiver.
From what I have read, AF HQ isn't responsible for this at all. I think they are stalling. I'm not too familiar with military resources yet, but I would go to JAG and have them put pressure on the head of the cdc on your base immediately. And ask for EVERYTHING in writing, you need a papertrail, and you won't leave their office til you got a piece of paper which states name and rank of the decision maker and why they are denying your request.
Oh and call militaryonesource and see where it takes you... You never know.
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#4 of 41 Old 03-30-2010, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree, I don't believe AF HQ or Air Staff have anything to do with this. I still haven't heard back from the Inspector Gererals office either. I only filed it at Wing level, If I don't get a satisfactory answer from them then I'll go higher. I do love the center the kids are at off base, but with two kids its still an extra $400 a month over what I was paying on base. And thats with using the NACCRRA subsity program, MCCYN. So far I haven't had any problem with the office at daycare, they have mostly just shrugged and said they passed the exemption up to the services flight chief. One of the offfice girls asks me now and then if I run into her how the whole thing is going. So they seem really nice about it. I haven't had anyone be rude about the whole thing, or act like I should get the shots just completely nieve about the regs and how to follow them I guess.
I also haven't had any pressure from their pediatrician on base either, when I told her I wasn't vaxing, she just said ok, can you sign this form (you know the "I accept the harm I'm putting my child in" form) I just did like others do and crossed out stuff and signed it. She didn't try to push anything.

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#5 of 41 Old 04-06-2010, 01:27 AM
 
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Wow! I am so happy to have found this thread. I have a very energetic 2 1/2 yo boy and are going to be moving to Maxwell AFB this summer from Tokyo, Japan. I currently have my son at an off base daycare as I have been lucky that the daycare centers that I have checked out here in Tokyo do not require vaccinations.

We are looking to live on base and were wanting to be prepared to send our son to the base school for kindergarten. However, I am concerned about the immunization waiver as well. The DoDDs site shows that children MUST be immunized and there is only room for a medical waiver at the bottom of the form. I have read the AF reg 48-110 but the wording really seems to only cover the active duty service member or civillians working on base.

Is there anyone who has successful enrolled their child in a military DoDDs school with a religious exemption? I would especially be happy to hear from someone who has done so in AL.

Essentially, the answer to this question will impact whether we live on base or off base.....I hope there is someone who can help.

Thanks!!
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#6 of 41 Old 04-06-2010, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Great news!! We are being approved for our religious exemption so we can go back to the base daycare. I received the news from the women working my IG complaint that it's going though, and AF HQ are even supposed to be releasing some memorandum to make the regulations more clear. Can't wait to see that come out. Hope it'll help everyone else out too! She also said that AF Head Quarters said they Daycare should have never been allowed to kick my children out in the first place and we should go straight to the top of the waiting list to get back in.
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#7 of 41 Old 04-06-2010, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by fussamama View Post
Wow! I am so happy to have found this thread. I have a very energetic 2 1/2 yo boy and are going to be moving to Maxwell AFB this summer from Tokyo, Japan. I currently have my son at an off base daycare as I have been lucky that the daycare centers that I have checked out here in Tokyo do not require vaccinations.

We are looking to live on base and were wanting to be prepared to send our son to the base school for kindergarten. However, I am concerned about the immunization waiver as well. The DoDDs site shows that children MUST be immunized and there is only room for a medical waiver at the bottom of the form. I have read the AF reg 48-110 but the wording really seems to only cover the active duty service member or civillians working on base.

Is there anyone who has successful enrolled their child in a military DoDDs school with a religious exemption? I would especially be happy to hear from someone who has done so in AL.

Essentially, the answer to this question will impact whether we live on base or off base.....I hope there is someone who can help.

Thanks!!
The part of the reg 48-110 dealing with Children attending DOD sponsored schools and daycare centers is section 3-2, b., (4) on page 10 of the reg. It says that immunizations are required unless there is medical or religious exemptions. And if they tell you no or "I don't know" and they make you wait forever, then fight it. I just did and we're in! Good Luck

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#8 of 41 Old 04-09-2010, 09:12 AM
 
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Congrats on the news!!!!!


We will be moving to a base in a few months when DH is done with training (he re-enlisted in the Army after being out for 10 yrs!) I am very nervous about dealing with all these crazy exemptions and all.

My biggest fear is that it will get DH in trouble for causing "drama" so to speak!

Kourtney, happily married to my soldier and raising ds 7/08 .... dd 7/10..... and ds 11/11

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#9 of 41 Old 04-09-2010, 10:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cubbbyaf View Post
Great news!! We are being approved for our religious exemption so we can go back to the base daycare. I received the news from the women working my IG complaint that it's going though, and AF HQ are even supposed to be releasing some memorandum to make the regulations more clear. Can't wait to see that come out. Hope it'll help everyone else out too! She also said that AF Head Quarters said they Daycare should have never been allowed to kick my children out in the first place and we should go straight to the top of the waiting list to get back in.
Yes, if HQ Air Force did NOT intend to exclude children with religious exemptions then they need to correct the regulation; because, as written, it allows exclusion.

You are now the authority on AF CDC exemptions .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#10 of 41 Old 04-09-2010, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MommaKitten21 View Post
Congrats on the news!!!!!


We will be moving to a base in a few months when DH is done with training (he re-enlisted in the Army after being out for 10 yrs!) I am very nervous about dealing with all these crazy exemptions and all.

My biggest fear is that it will get DH in trouble for causing "drama" so to speak!
The Army regulation is more explicit; you should be fine.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#11 of 41 Old 04-09-2010, 10:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cubbbyaf View Post
The part of the reg 48-110 dealing with Children attending DOD sponsored schools and daycare centers is section 3-2, b., (4) on page 10 of the reg. It says that immunizations are required unless there is medical or religious exemptions. And if they tell you no or "I don't know" and they make you wait forever, then fight it. I just did and we're in! Good Luck
Daycares from all services claim that the CDC is not DOD sponsored .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#12 of 41 Old 04-21-2010, 01:50 PM
 
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Great job OP for making them stick to their own rules.

For posterity's sake, I too have had an exemption approved at a military child care provider facility. My child is not in the CDC, but the FCC (Family Childcare), which is the in-home provider option on base. I would be happy to share my experience with anyone encountering difficulties.
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#13 of 41 Old 04-27-2010, 06:16 PM
 
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Having an issue getting an exemption for CYS also. They are saying Im required to have a signed letter from my "church" and that I must be a "practicing member" of a "church" or "place of worship". Is this correct? They said they only have to obide by the army regulation and not the constitution?? lol I guess the rest of the country's rights are protected but not ours?
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#14 of 41 Old 04-28-2010, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Having an issue getting an exemption for CYS also. They are saying Im required to have a signed letter from my "church" and that I must be a "practicing member" of a "church" or "place of worship". Is this correct? They said they only have to obide by the army regulation and not the constitution?? lol I guess the rest of the country's rights are protected but not ours?
Sorry your having problems, I know what it's like, although I didn't have that one come up about proving my religion!.

When I first filed my Religious Exemption with base daycare I turned in both this letter, and the following DODea Form 2943.



Quote:
To whom it may concern;



(We / I) {First and Last name(s)}, as the {(parent (s) / guardian(s)} of ______________________(name of newborn child) are exercising (our/my) rights under the US Constitution, Army Regulation 40-562, BUMEDINST 6230.15A, AF JI 48-110, CG COMDTINST M6230.4F , section 3.2, para4, and Army Regulation 608-10, section 4-6, para 2, to receive Religious Exemption from Vaccination, due to our genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required.


The U.S. Supreme Court held in Frazee V. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 U.S. 829, that a religious belief is subject to protection even though no religious group espouses such beliefs or the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to belong may not advocate or require such belief. This ruling is also reflected in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as amended Nov. 1, 1980; Part 1605.1-Guidelines on Discrimination Because of Religion.


Sincerely,

Your signature.
Date

The letter covers both the Army reg and the civil rights part about not being able to question your religion.

For the Dodea form:

http://www.dodea.edu/docs/forms/form_dodea2943.pdf


On this DODea form I put the following:

Quote:
To Whom It May Concern:

In accordance with ARS 15-873, we certify that we have received information about immunizations provided by the department of health services, we understand the risks and benefits of immunizations and the potential risks and benefits of non-immunization; and due to religious/personal beliefs, we do not consent to the immunization of our child, *child's name*.


Sincerely,

your name

After turning that in the Director thought I was crazy and that would never go though and I told her it was in the regs and I could show her, so The next day I brough in with the appropriate sections highlighted the Army Regulation 40-562 (also Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard, but reg number) with the sections highlighted that said on pg 10 of the reg in section3-2 b. (4):

Quote:
(4) Department of Defense schoolteachers, daycare center workers, and children attending DOD–sponsored schools
and daycare centers or similar facilities on military installations. As a condition of employment or attendance at these
facilities, schoolteachers, childcare center workers, volunteers, and children attending DOD–sponsored primary and
secondary schools, childcare centers, or similar facilities are administered appropriate vaccines against communicable
diseases unless already immune (based on documented receipt of vaccine series or physician–diagnosed illness) or
medically/administratively exempt. For rubella, immunity is based only on documentation of immunization or laboratory
evidence of immunity. Administer influenza vaccine annually to schoolteachers, daycare workers, and volunteers.
In addition, all other age appropriate ACIP–recommended vaccines for children are required unless there is documentation
of previous immunization, religious exemption, or medical contraindication. Installation medical staff will collaborate
with DOD school and daycare center authorities to ensure effective immunization screening procedures. LocalMTFs will appoint liaisons to these facilities to ensure understanding and compliance. For foreign–national children
outside the United States, observe host country recommendations or requirements.
(I got very often when asking for a reason in writing people often liked to quote the beginning of this paragraph and convenietly leave off the rest that talks about the exemptions.)

For me they took this and sent it to the Flight Services Director who then sent it to Air Force Headquarters, and they said it went to Air Staff...After several months I finally gave my chain of command a heads up and Filed my IG complaint. Hopefully you won't have to go this far. But if you do need to that process is there just for that reason. Please use it. You are in the right, and don't let them convince you otherwise. You do not need to prove your religion to anybody. That is in violation of your civil rights if they deny you base on your religion like that. Good luck and keep us posted!
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#15 of 41 Old 04-28-2010, 08:19 PM
 
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Having an issue getting an exemption for CYS also. They are saying Im required to have a signed letter from my "church" and that I must be a "practicing member" of a "church" or "place of worship". Is this correct? They said they only have to obide by the army regulation and not the constitution?? lol I guess the rest of the country's rights are protected but not ours?
Good. Tell them that the Army regulation says that you can use an exemption and does NOT require membership in a church because you are a CIVILIAN DEPENDENT. The regulation ONLY requires that for military members who want a religious exemption for themselves.

Just do what cubbbyaf said.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#16 of 41 Old 04-28-2010, 08:58 PM
 
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When we originally signed DD up for daycare, while I was still pg, I asked about vax exemptions. The CDC director was really friendly and had no problems with it. She said it was really easy, they would give me a form to have signed at the TMC. That was it.

We ended up vaxing DD, but it made me feel better that they knew what I was talking about and had no issues. It was on NAS Key West.
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#17 of 41 Old 05-09-2010, 06:07 PM
 
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I want to thank all of you moms for posting this info! My husband is active duty Army and we decided not to vaccinate our children. Actually my older son was vax'd up until 18 months and when I was pregnant with #2 I did more research and we chose to stop vaccinating him and not vaccinate our newborn son at all. My 2 yr old is already enrolled in CYS (I only use hourly care, the gym daycare, and a few other select programs) so they have his shot record but I submitted a religious exemption for my baby a week ago. I still haven't heard back from the nurse yet. CYS told me they usually only take a week to be approved and reviewed. I also plan on submitting the same exemption for my older son when necessary. Do you think the fact that my older child has received some vaccinations will make a difference? I'm afraid they are going to use that against me but my feeling is that people can change religious beliefs all the time and it's my right to not vaccinate. In fact my religous beliefs never changed, it was my knowledge of vaccines that did that led my husband and I to make that choice. I even cited the DOD and AR regulations in my exemption because before they claimed I had to have a member of the church sign off on it which I found to be false. It's no where in the regulations. In fact it specifically states a parent's signature is all you need. Any thoughts? We'll be PCSing in the fall and I plan on just submitting and exemption for both of them.
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#18 of 41 Old 05-12-2010, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You're right they shouldn't be able to give you a hard time because you vaxed ds at first. Like you said, people convert religions all the time or learn more about their bliefs and they can't question that. I had my ds get a couple vaxes early on, but changed my mind too and that was never an issue for us. Good luck this fall, I hope they don't give you a hassle.

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#19 of 41 Old 09-28-2010, 10:06 PM
 
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It's no where in the regulations. In fact it specifically states a parent's signature is all you need.
I know this is an old post, but could you tell me where in the regulation its says all you need is a parents signature? I want to have everything I can to back me up when I try to get the exemption again. Thanks!
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#20 of 41 Old 11-12-2010, 09:44 AM
 
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Can you guys tell me what you wrote exactly in your exemption letters (or pm me)? I"m a little clueless. There is no set exemption form, so I don't know what to write. I don't want to write something that might be questioned later by them... Thanks!

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#21 of 41 Old 11-16-2010, 10:32 PM
 
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Also looking for more information on this.

 

I'm a SAHM, but wanted to get my kids set up at the CDC for drop-in on occasion (my doctor's appointments, etc.).

 

I called about waivers and the director was kind of snarky about it, but the only one she mentioned was medical, which I'm 99% sure I won't be able to swing. So, I'm hoping to try for the religious waiver.

 

DH is Air Force, BTW.

 

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#22 of 41 Old 11-17-2010, 10:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lboosmommy View Post

Also looking for more information on this.

 

I'm a SAHM, but wanted to get my kids set up at the CDC for drop-in on occasion (my doctor's appointments, etc.).

 

I called about waivers and the director was kind of snarky about it, but the only one she mentioned was medical, which I'm 99% sure I won't be able to swing. So, I'm hoping to try for the religious waiver.

 

DH is Air Force, BTW.

 


Did you read this post?

#6

 

I'd turn in the religious exemption and, if necessary, drop a line like "the person who handled my friends IG complaint for being refused a spot at her CDC, said that it never should have happened and that HQ Air Force would be following up with a more explicit regulation that would would protect exemptions from being rejected out of hand. Perhaps I should follow up on that for you."


"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#23 of 41 Old 11-17-2010, 12:25 PM
 
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I was planning on the same... I never ended up going on to fill out their paperwork and bring my own written statement for the religious exemption. they didn't even have spots open, if you are a SAHM, you are low priority and it's basically impossible to get a couple hours of childcare. I went with off-base instead, just the state's exemption, which is easy peasy.

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#24 of 41 Old 11-17-2010, 11:26 PM
 
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Could you possibly point me to which letter and form you're talking about exactly? I saw a bunch of different ones, just want to make sure I have the 'right' ones. :-)
 

Quote:
I filed religious exemption letter as found on here, and a DODea form for exeption and printed out the regulations also found from here. (Thanks so much guys).
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#25 of 41 Old 11-18-2010, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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On post #14 of this thread is the template for the letter I used and what I typed on the  DODea Form 2943.  Hope that helps.  Oh, and for Air Force People, PM me for the name and number of the woman at Air Force Headquarters that you can have your CDC director call if they are still not sure what to do and I will be more than happy to give it to you.  I'd post it on here, but I don't know all the rules and I don't want to break any.


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#26 of 41 Old 11-22-2010, 09:20 PM
 
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Awesome, thanks.

 

That's what I had kind of done, was filled out the 2943 and then used the letter as my 'explanation' section.

 

Now to go hand it in, lol.

 

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#27 of 41 Old 12-23-2010, 11:41 PM
 
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Thanks for all your work and sharing this folks.  We were able to get our kids registered for CYS prior to leaving Fort Lewis, WA.  I simply filled out the state "philosophical" exemption form and gave it to the registering agent.  According to the Army the Public Health Nurse has to sign off on it and approve it.  At Fort Lewis she just so happened to be there when I was registering before we PCS'd here to CO.  I had no idea the military could deny state exemptions, however, when we arrived here at Fort Carson, CO, I attempted to do the same the CYS denied my form and we were given a letter stating that "personal" religious beliefs were prohibited and that we had to have a pastor, chaplain, religious organization sign off that not having immunizations was a part of "written" tenants or normal practice of our belief group.  My husband is an active duty Army Chaplain and I am Air Force Reserve.  He's deploying and we are awaiting approval of his religious exemption letter, however, they are requiring an additional chaplain to sign the letter besides himself.  I'll let you know how it turns out.  I realize it is against a Supreme Court decision to require proof of religious belief, but their verbage here has been hostile in their letter.  If denied we may have to file an IG complaint as well.  Thanks so much!!!


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#28 of 41 Old 12-24-2010, 03:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by natural&organicmom View Post

Thanks for all your work and sharing this folks.  We were able to get our kids registered for CYS prior to leaving Fort Lewis, WA.  I realize it is against a Supreme Court decision to require proof of religious belief...


Not just that, but religious "proof" is only in the regulations for members, not dependents. There are no regulations in any service detailing "requirements" for dependents religious exemptions for childcare or other on base services. All the regs say is that religious exemptions are allowed.

 

and...
[quote]Paragraph 3-2.b.(4) at the bottom of page 10 of

Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F
:

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf

specifically states, "Department of Defense schoolteachers, daycare center workers, and children attending DOD–sponsored schools
and daycare centers or similar facilities on military installations. As a condition of employment or attendance at these
facilities, schoolteachers, childcare center workers, volunteers, and children attending DOD–sponsored primary and
secondary schools, childcare centers, or similar facilities are administered appropriate vaccines against communicable
diseases unless already immune (based on documented receipt of vaccine series or physician–diagnosed illness) or
medically/administratively exempt. "[/quote]
 

ARMY

Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
pg. 10, section 3.2, para 4 says:

[quote]In addition, all other age appropriate ACIP–recommended vaccines for children are required unless there is documentation of previous immunization, religious exemption, or medical contraindication.[/quote]

 

Army Regulation 608-10

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r608_10.pdf
Child Development Services

4-6
(2) A waiver of the immunization requirement must be approved in writing by the Chief, Preventive Medicine or
health consultant. Parents must be counseled that children with waivers will be excluded from the program in the event
of vaccine preventable communicable disease outbreak.

 

C–37. Compliance item 15.

c. Equivalency. A waiver of immunizations signed by Chief, Preventive Medicine may be considered for religious
convictions. Parents must be counseled that the child may be excluded during an outbreak of vaccine preventable
communicable disease.


Army Dependent Exemption Memos

 

 


"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
#29 of 41 Old 03-07-2011, 07:49 PM
 
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Still working on this.

The director of the CDC here at Hill said they only do it for Medical reasons. Obviously that's not true. I gave her the regulations that show the religious exemption clause when I handed in everything. Any other suggestions? I didn't actually talk to her, I passed on the info through the guy at the front desk and she called DH and told him they only do medical. So, I'm guessing my first step should be to just call her and remind her that it's in the regs. But what if she still tells me NO?

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#30 of 41 Old 04-23-2011, 02:32 PM
 
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Thank you so much for posting this information! I wasn't going to bother applying for the CDC, but now I will submit my application.

syane45 likes this.

We create our own reality.
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