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#1 of 33 Old 06-06-2010, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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At a Developmental Pedi appt with my DS, I got tripped up by that question, it came rolling in a series, right after "Does he sleep well? Healthy appetite? Stool ok? Vaxes up to date?"

It was "yep, yep, yep," and then I said "Uhhhh.....no...." and I felt self-conscious about answering the way I did, like I was apologizing when I never meant to. You get a question worded that way from the modern-day "gods" and I stumbled off my pedestal, fighting off that negligent-lowlife feeling. She asked for clarification, I told her the truth, that we stopped at 6 months because I had read some things... She accepted the answer and went on, but weeks later as she was presenting us with DS's Autism dx she gave me a brief but unmistakable hairy eyeball when as she told me there was no good science that said there was an Autism/vax link (thanks, but Autism wasn't the only reason why I stopped vaxing.)

What is the best way to answer a professional's "Vaxes up to date?" question, when the "up to date" part presumes so much? TIA
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#2 of 33 Old 06-06-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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I just say I am religiously opposed and after that they cant ask you any more questions by law. Though the one ped. tiptoed all the way around it without asking me what religion. He got on my nerves but nothing he could do about it.

 
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#3 of 33 Old 06-06-2010, 04:50 PM
 
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This is why I do not use a 'health professional'. IMO anyone that still believes vaxes are good and not dangerous is ill prepared to look after the health of anyone. In your case, I see why you would want someone involved, since you have a dx. Have you looked for a DAN in your area? From what I have heard, they respect body integrity and protect it from toxins. Here is a list of DANs
http://www.autism.com/pro_danlists_us.asp I found that in a search, not a site I know, but list looks good. This is where I first heard of DAN dr's
http://www.generationrescue.org/

This group has a lot of informed people in it and a lot of good help. It is very high volume however, so I chose to view it on web only to prevent email flood.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFKids/

perhaps finding a health professional that is informed and understands the link between neurological damage, vaccines and toxins like mercury in our teeth would be best for your family.

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#4 of 33 Old 06-06-2010, 04:53 PM
 
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In the ER, I'll tell them that I won't answer because it biases their care either way (in cases of illness) or because it's meaningless information (in cases of injury).

With the developmental pediatrician, regular pediatrician, occupational therapist, and social skills facilitator, I was honest. I said that it was partly because of my beliefs that it's better to allow my children to develop immunities naturally, and partly because of my family history of vaccine reactions. And I said that my older son lost speech shortly after a round of shots, which may or may not be related to the shots, but I wasn't taking any more chances. I think it was more important to be honest with the people who were regularly working with him - especially when they were dealing with areas related to his speech loss/ delays. I've gotten some lectures ("Well, you really should at least get XYZ vax because blah blah blah") but I'm confident in my decision and didn't worry about it too much.

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#5 of 33 Old 06-06-2010, 09:22 PM
 
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Just be prepared; if you are dealing with a nurse or an MD it is likely to come up. I say "we do not vaccinate." I haven't had to deal with any attempts at lectures since ds was a baby.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#6 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 07:34 AM
 
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2 ER visits.

"shots up to date?"

"yes, in that we're allowed to not vax."

End of story, move along. Excellent care, even if it turned out both times DS didn't really have to go to the ER, it was a "just in case" move each time, once for a burn, once for a fall.
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#7 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 07:57 AM
 
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I would just be very stern about your answer. If you are, the chances are smaller that you will get lectured about it because they'll know not to mess with you.

We've only had to deal with our pediatrician at this point (and he's fine with our decision), but it's the nurses that would give us an attitude when our son was a baby. When they would ask, "So, what vaccines are you getting today?" I would say say "none" in such a way as to say you are not giving any of that to my baby, and they would respond, "You're not getting any??" with such an attitude and disbelief that I could do such a thing. I would just say, "No" again even sterner with some annoyance attached to it. They got the point. Who are they to judge anyway????? Let's see them inject themselves with 5 shots at a time. I always prepare myself with things to say in case someone does say something to us about it.

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#8 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 09:47 AM
 
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I'm along the lines of what milkybean would say...

If I was asked if her vaxes were up to date, I'd say yes, her vaccine records are.

Of course, I may have to wipe out a blank sheet of paper and write vaccine records on the top to hand to them...
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#9 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for these responses and understanding my point of view (instead of judging me for white-coat jellyknees.) CDS sent us to this dev.pedi., DS's regular doctor (whom we rarely see) was chosen because of his view on vaccines and how that they're not necessary.
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#10 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 06:04 PM
 
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a useful hint when someone pulls the checklist approach (in any setting) and you find yourself getting confused and saying yes when you should have said no, or vice versa:

turn it around and lay a guilt trip on them by saying "I'm sorry, but you are going too fast. Can you slow down and go over the last few questions again?"

This puts the person who thinks they are in charge off their stride very nicely and gives you a chance to regain your equilibrium. It has the advantage of being true, besides, as you wouldn't have given an incorrect response if they hadn't been going too fast.
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#11 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 06:08 PM
 
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Here's the way it's always gone for me at ER visits:

Nurse: Immunizations up to date?

Me: No

Nurse: Next question....

Really, you don't have to launch into explanations. A simple "No" will do it.

(And I would never lie.)
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#12 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 06:48 PM
 
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Sometimes a confident, cheerful answer will confuse people. At an ENT appt last year, the pre-screener person (before the doc) asked if DS was up-to-date on vaccines, and it totally threw me for a loop, I hadn't seen it coming at all. But I faked cheerfulness, "Oh no, we don't vaccinate."

Poor young man looked almost scared of me after that (I think he wondered if I was going to start evangelizing at any moment despite my very mainstream appearance), finished up quickly, and exited fast.
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#13 of 33 Old 06-07-2010, 11:20 PM
 
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Sometimes a confident, cheerful answer will confuse people. At an ENT appt last year, the pre-screener person (before the doc) asked if DS was up-to-date on vaccines, and it totally threw me for a loop, I hadn't seen it coming at all. But I faked cheerfulness, "Oh no, we don't vaccinate."
I've done that one too.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#14 of 33 Old 06-08-2010, 01:13 AM
 
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I haven't had to use it yet, but the line I have all ready to go is "We choose not to vaccinate." I think the 'choose' part is important - I'm not a negligent parent, we made a concious choice.

And I am not about to argue with anyone. I can pretty much guarantee that I have spent many, many more hours researching vaccines than any doctor I am likely to cross paths with, so I refuse to engage with someone who is just going to fear monger. No point.

Of course it took me a while to get to this place. My family doc made me cry at my DD's 2mo visit, so I understand the pressure of being in a doctor's office.

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#15 of 33 Old 06-08-2010, 10:02 AM
 
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At the docs, I would be honest and unapologetic "no, we choose to not vaccinate"

we have to fill out a form for DS to be in the playroom at the gym, on that I answered "yes" up-to-date on vaccinations, as he is - according to our schedule of non-vaxing - This isn't an ER, and the people who staff it aren't medically trained at all, so I feel it is not a place where we should push the issue.

Checklists bother DH too, because they ask breast or bottle, and he is flummoxed because DS gets BM in a bottle sometimes (while I am at work, or we are out on a date night or something). He said they need to change their question because it is confusing. You might try the same with the nurse - esp. since all kids are not vax'd on the same schedule anymore.

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#16 of 33 Old 06-11-2010, 06:47 PM
 
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i dont say no when asked if ds is UTD, bc i think that implies partial vax status, so i just say "ds is EXEMPT". it sounds important or special or something. i've yet to have anyone ask for clarification, whereas i used to say no or "we dont vax" and that inevitably opened a whole big can o'worms.

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#17 of 33 Old 06-14-2010, 10:36 AM
 
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Here's the thing--you are doing what YOU think is best for YOUR child. You might be humiliated, belittled, degraded, offended, etc. by the health personnel. They will look at you as if you are endangering your child if you don't vax.

Just remember this--you might be humiliated at the doctor's office, but that is only for a few hours. It is a very uncomfortable situation, I know. But you will be able to sleep well at night, knowing that you stood up to controversy and you have done what is best for your baby! That feeling outweighs whatever the disapproving doctors can throw your way.

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#18 of 33 Old 06-16-2010, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's the thing--you are doing what YOU think is best for YOUR child. You might be humiliated, belittled, degraded, offended, etc. by the health personnel. They will look at you as if you are endangering your child if you don't vax.

Just remember this--you might be humiliated at the doctor's office, but that is only for a few hours. It is a very uncomfortable situation, I know. But you will be able to sleep well at night, knowing that you stood up to controversy and you have done what is best for your baby! That feeling outweighs whatever the disapproving doctors can throw your way.
Thank you for that, it was very empowering. I feel like I did a lot of research when I decided NO MORE VAX, but then I stopped, so when a dr. asks me about it it feels like I no longer have the arsenal of information I only ever half-had in the first place, I just knew which way my gut was leaning. You are very right, the feeling outweighs any doctor's disapproval.

"We choose not to vaccinate," is how I'll answer in the future.
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#19 of 33 Old 06-16-2010, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Checklists bother DH too, because they ask breast or bottle, and he is flummoxed because DS gets BM in a bottle sometimes (while I am at work, or we are out on a date night or something). He said they need to change their question because it is confusing. You might try the same with the nurse - esp. since all kids are not vax'd on the same schedule anymore.

Yeah, and half the time what you answer doesn't make an ounce of difference anyways. I was horribly naive when I checked into the hospital for DS's birth, over 7 days I was asked countless times "do you plan to breastfeed, do you plan to circumcise" and every time the answer was "yes, no" but lo and behold, after my unplanned c-section my DS had a bottle in his mouth before I held him, AND my OB showed up for a circ and was all bewildered when I told him "uh nuh." I saw this Dev Pedi 3 times and each time the nurse asked me if he was allergic/taking supplements. Why couldn't they rely on the info I gave them on the first visit??? :
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#20 of 33 Old 06-17-2010, 03:27 PM
 
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Well 1st off i wont let my kids see a dr if the DR dosent respect my medical choices ...
I will tell you,When interviewing docs i came out and told them "I DONT vax "and if at any time they bring it up or make me feel less then for not doing it ,I will leave thier practice and find a nother DR.
Letting them know that you dont look at them as a God ,really brings them back down to earth IMO ..The fact is they are employed by you to take care of your children health when needed.
They are not there to make medical choices for you....

But to answer your question..If this happen to me ..I woul ask why is that relevant to my childs health?
because unless my child is showing symptoms of a disease ..why do you need to know this to tell me whether or not my kids is growing correctly and is healthy...
Then if they didnt respect my wishes ect i would tell them i am finding a new dr ASAP!

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#21 of 33 Old 06-17-2010, 07:52 PM
 
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I used to answer...ever so quietly, meekly and shy, "Um..we don't vaccinate." Not because I wasn't confident or sure of our decision..but because I had been so belittled the first time I told a pediatrician, so I was scared to be in a confrontation!

Now..it's just a "Nope, we don't vaccinate, though I rarely find ourselves in a situation that requires the question/answer...however, we have to be prepared! I pity the poor soul who tries to tussle (pompously-I'm all for respectful discussion)over that one with me. As far as I'm concerned, in this country..for now at least, I'm allowed to make health care choices for my children. I'm allowed to parent them as I see fit-I'm qualified, by God, to be their parent..no MD, or anyone else, has to allow me that option.

It's a difficult place at times. We don't do well-baby/child visits at all anymore, and a small part of the reason was even though the last ped was fairly respectful, I was sick and tired of walking out of there with pamphlets on the need for all the vaccines...never a mention of side effects or issues. You'd think with all of the campaigns to be greener, they'd spare me the paper.

Anyway..be strong and word it any way you choose-just be confident however you say it. Always remember, your choice to not vax isn't based in ignorance, poverty, conspiracy theory and rumor. It's research, common sense, fact and evidence based..something the medical community has largely forgot about.

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#22 of 33 Old 06-17-2010, 08:04 PM
 
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I just say I am religiously opposed and after that they cant ask you any more questions by law. Though the one ped. tiptoed all the way around it without asking me what religion. He got on my nerves but nothing he could do about it.
It is actually against the law? In all states?

At one of the well babys, I said this to the doctor. She asked me rudely what religion I was. I answered "Christian" to which she rudely replied "Well that's NOT a Christian belief, that's your personal belief." I said, "No, that is my religious belief." She pressed further, "No that is your PERSONAL belief." I didn't say any further, and she told me I should consider vaccinations at DS's next appointment.

So now I'm wondering, should have I reported her?
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#23 of 33 Old 06-17-2010, 08:18 PM
 
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DS had to go to the ER for possible toxin ingestion. I figured he didn't actually ingest any.. but I sure didn't want to chance it! And got that gosh awful question, and I fumbled all over it and make myself look so stupid. I'm a passive, quiet person to begin with, and the doctor woudl NOT stop pressuring me to give him a "good enough" answer.
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#24 of 33 Old 06-23-2010, 02:49 PM
 
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I usually say, "He's had all the shots he's going to get." or "we have chosen not to vaccinate." I think it's really all in the delivery (as pp have said) and if you sound like you're waffling (which I totally can understand, based on how the convo went down) then they think it's a good time to start a conversation about vaccinating because you might be receptive to what they have to say.

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#25 of 33 Old 06-23-2010, 09:30 PM
 
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We just had this happen and it made my husband and I both laugh. We took our daughter to an urgent care on the weekend for some issues she's been having. The nurse doing the intake questions asked if she was up to date and we simply said no. Then when the doctor was in it somehow came up that we hadn't been to a ped since her 12mo because we moved (she's now 17mos), and she asked, 'So she hasn't had her 15 month shots?' We just said nope, and that was it, but as soon as she left we had a nice giggle.

I've been wondering if there's any point in going to well checks past infancy, but then when you do need a doctor do you just go to urgent cares? I felt like I was going to get in trouble every time I said we don't have a regular doctor...but I'm still working on my confidence in these things.
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#26 of 33 Old 06-24-2010, 11:23 AM
 
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It is actually against the law? In all states?

At one of the well babys, I said this to the doctor. She asked me rudely what religion I was. I answered "Christian" to which she rudely replied "Well that's NOT a Christian belief, that's your personal belief." I said, "No, that is my religious belief." She pressed further, "No that is your PERSONAL belief." I didn't say any further, and she told me I should consider vaccinations at DS's next appointment.

So now I'm wondering, should have I reported her?
It is not a crime to merely ask; you don't have to answer.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#27 of 33 Old 06-24-2010, 01:22 PM
 
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I answer truthfully during evals, my oldest has many evals for her various issues and the vax question comes up sometimes. My pedi knows I will not vax but for everyone else, like ER visits, I say "up to date". I do not engage in vax debates with DD1's therapists, etc... I just say something like thanks for the info or that is not why we are here, and change the subject.

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#28 of 33 Old 06-24-2010, 05:01 PM
 
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I'v ehad to navigate these questions as well. My oldest was vaxed and is on the autism spectrum even with some vaxs delayed. Anyway when he was little we were going to a playgroup at the local public school and the person running it handed me a form a few weeks after we had been going that "I seemed to have forgot to fill out"...I never even seen the form before, but it asked for my child's (this was a playgroup for 1 year olds) SSN and vax records. I politely told her I saw no legal reason why she needed that personal information for a 1 year old. And I stopped going...I planned on homeschooling and I saw right through that trap right away.

I also had to switch docs because I had a pede who was very beligerant when pregnant with my second about my decision to delay and refuse some vacines as well as Vitamin K and eye drops or circumcision. He was very offensive. "Are you one of those parents who are so scared of western medicine that you would be so negligent?" That was the end of his involvement with my family.

We see a FP now. And in my community kids get their shots by a nurse at the health dept. The docs don't do it at their offices and then the records are sent to the various docs. So he has to know that are children are only partially vaxed. But he hasn't brought it up. Also with the birth of my second I didn't want a debate about the hep B so i just said we were going to delay vaccines. I didn't see any need to tell him we were refusing hep B all together. My second stopped getting vaxed at about 6 months old after a severe reaction to prevnar and DTaP. Which were the only two he was receiving.

i also had a very exhausting discussion about my oldest's vaxs with a developmental pede...they really do treat us like a bunch of idiots when we KNOW what we experienced with our children after being vaxed don't they?

Our OT and speech pathologist and chiropractor on on board in regards to vaccines though.

I've actually said to a doc before "are you willing to sign a piece of paper saying that you will take full responsibility physically, mentally, spiritually and financially for any negative effect that your decisions will have on my child for the rest of his life?" Blank stare. "Well I have..it's called a birth certificate."

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#29 of 33 Old 06-28-2010, 07:35 PM
 
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I like, "We don't vaccinate, and are not going to discuss vaccines today". It's direct and to the point and if you keep your tone even and polite, it brooks no further inquiries or arguments. Plain and simple, not vaccinating is a choice--the default choice--and your reasons are your own business. A white coat and stethoscope doesn't give someone the authority to question your motives or judgment.

If you need some confidence when dealing with pushy doctors, I highly recommend reading Dr. Mendelsohn's Confessions of a Medical Heretic. It's eye-opening and hilarious, and will help you quickly realize that doctors are far from infallible.

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#30 of 33 Old 06-28-2010, 08:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kerimommyof2 View Post
Well 1st off I won't let my kids see a dr if the DR doesn't respect my medical choices ...
That works great until your child falls off a swing and breaks her arm and has to go to the hospital. That's where we've always encountered the dreaded "Up to date?" question.

I tend to answer "Yes" because according to me, we are "up to date". We are current in our practice of not vaccinating.

Since vaccines aren't 100% effective, even if my child is sick and fully vaccinated, the doctors still need to consider those illnesses as a possibility.

Catholic homeschooling mom of two daughters and four sons... baby Mark born on 8/27/10. Kidney Disease Awareness
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