Meltdown over DTaP - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 23 Old 06-17-2010, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Today I took my 4 mo DS to his well baby visit and was supposed to get him his first round of DTaP. (Thus far he hasnt been vaccinated at all) ...but I just couldnt do it. My mommy instinct kicked in and I couldnt ignore the overwhelming sense of fear and horror I had. I immediately started bawling and called DH to tell him that I just couldnt do it. ...It just didnt seem right.

Now, as I research more and more, Im finding myself in an awkward position. I dont think that vaccinating is right but all the fear surrounding not vaxing is a bit suffocating.

I guess I just wonder how you non vaxer's ultimately made your decision not to vax. Did you feel the risks of vaccines outweighed their benefits?


Also, for you research mommas, how did you get your DH on board with it? Even mentioning the idea of not getting DTaP at all sends my husband into a tizzy "Well Ive heard several docs say...."
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#2 of 23 Old 06-17-2010, 07:10 PM
 
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I'm sure it's different for each mom regarding when they actually felt 100% confident with the decision to not vaccinate....some may have been 100% confident from the get-go and others may have had to do some soul-searching before reaching that decision. At first, after my son was born, DH and I were going to delay vaccines and then do a selective schedule; however, as time went on, the clearer it all became to me. After all my research on the subject, I knew I didn't want to vaccinate at all. I think my decision of not vaccinating came from my instinct and common sense that it couldn't be healthy for such a tiny body that is trying to grow on its own to be continuously assaulted with vaccinations messing up their immune systems. Then, I would see videos and hear horror stories of babies/kids with life-threatening reactions to them. These were real life stories. When looking at what's in the vaccines, how can that be safe, especially five at one time? Now, how can we say doctors are looking out for our children's wellbeing? Also, it all comes together when you see how much protection the pharmaceutical companies have and what a money-making business vaccines is. I think all the pieces of the puzzle just came together for me. I definitely think the risks outweigh the benefits. I want my son to be as healthy as he can be on his OWN without toxins/poisons interferring with his internal systems.

My husband was on board with me from the beginning as I had him read up on it too. I never had an issue with trying to get him on my side with that, so I count myself lucky. Try getting your husband to research vaccines and actually read what's in them, etc. After doing so, take a step back and think with your own common sense, and ask yourself, "Would I feed my child aluminum and formaldehyde?" If the question is no then why would you want to inject it into his bloodstream? Hopefully one day it will just come to you and you will feel completely comfortable with your decision (whatever that decision may be) like I do now.

Good luck with everything. We're all here for support.

Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

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#3 of 23 Old 06-17-2010, 11:49 PM
 
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Krye, I believe you made the right decision for your baby.

I also agree with Mandy F's post. The more you look into vaccines, the more confident you will be with your decision.

 
 
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#4 of 23 Old 06-18-2010, 12:52 AM
 
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I started researching vax while I was pregnant, and it wasn't until DD was about six months old that I was comfortable saying that we aren't going to vaccinate at all. I read everything I could get my hands on - websites, studies, and every book available through inter-library loan.

Up until then we were "delaying" indefinitely. I had my moments of doubt, including a complete meltdown in my doctor's office when she basically told me that DD would DIE(!!) if I didn't vax her for Hib. But I am happy to now report that at nearly 2yo DD is vax free, and the healthiest kid I know.

DF basically came along for the ride while I researched. Whenever I came accross something that made me say "woah!" I would read it to him. By the time I was convinced that no-vax was the way to go, he was on board as well. I never had to convince him, because we were always on the same team.

I also really think you need to trust your mama instinct here. I also had an overwhelming feeling that DD would be one to have a serious reaction. Fortunately I haven't had to put that to the test. Strangely enough, I also feel that our next child, who isn't even conceived yet, can handle vaxes just fine - but that won't be put to the test either. Don't mess with the instincts!

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#5 of 23 Old 06-18-2010, 02:42 AM
 
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I remember being a little afraid of tetanus and Hib before I did further research. I am now 100% confident in my decision to not vaccinate. Absolutely no worries whatsoever. It's a good feeling. I know it is what is best for my children. They have never been vaccinated. My husband and I will also never get another vaccine again.

My poor husband--when I was researching vaccines, it was all I could talk about. He learned everything I learned. There was no escape.

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I am happy to now report that at nearly 2yo DD is vax free, and the healthiest kid I know.
I guess that means you don't know my kids.
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#6 of 23 Old 06-18-2010, 10:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by just_lily View Post
I started researching vax while I was pregnant, and it wasn't until DD was about six months old that I was comfortable saying that we aren't going to vaccinate at all. I read everything I could get my hands on - websites, studies, and every book available through inter-library loan.

Up until then we were "delaying" indefinitely. [snip] But I am happy to now report that at nearly 2yo DD is vax free, and the healthiest kid I know.

DF basically came along for the ride while I researched. Whenever I came accross something that made me say "woah!" I would read it to him. By the time I was convinced that no-vax was the way to go, he was on board as well. I never had to convince him, because we were always on the same team.

I also really think you need to trust your mama instinct here. I also had an overwhelming feeling that DD would be one to have a serious reaction. Fortunately I haven't had to put that to the test. Strangely enough, I also feel that our next child, who isn't even conceived yet, can handle vaxes just fine - but that won't be put to the test either. Don't mess with the instincts!
This, exactly!

Rachel, mama to Lucy, born 9.9.07, and Caroline, born 2.25.10!
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#7 of 23 Old 06-18-2010, 10:32 AM
 
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We selectively vaxed, but DS still suffered vax injury at 7 months after receiving HiB and Prevnar. Despite the vax injury, I find the most comfort in ceasing vaxes knowing that we are doing things to make our complete immune systems healthy. No vax is a lifestyle choice/change for us, and we're healthier for it.

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#8 of 23 Old 06-18-2010, 11:06 AM
 
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I starting researching this topic well before I had children. I came to the conclusion when I had a child, he/she would most likely not be vaccinated, but I kept an open mind. From my research I came to the following conclusions.

1) All vaccines negatively effect the immune system

2) Some vaccines are effective, some are not

3) For all of the diseases, the risks outweighed any benefit for my situation

4) There are complex genetic factors that have to do with immunology, myelination, and detox pathways...that are predetermined from birth. These things will make it more or less likely that a child will be seriosly negatively effected by a vaccine. There is absolutely NO WAY to know if your baby has any of these genetic factors going on when you vaccinate. This is basically playing Russian Roulette.....I was not willing to play this game with my son.

5) Listen to your Mommy instinct...it is more powerful than anything.

This last point leads me to a "moment" I had yesterday. My totally unvaccinated son is not the healthist kid...like many unvaccinated children seem to be. He has multiple food allergies, is sick alot, has candida issues. I believe he inherited many of these issues from me. We are working with an ND to sort out his problems. Anyway we were there yesterday and I said to the doctor....."With all Ds has going on...can you imagine if I had vaccinated him by the CDC schedule?" the doctoe replied. "You are lucky you did your research before you had your son, I think if you had vaccinated him on schedule, there is a pretty good possibility he would have some neurological problems and he would be far worse off than he is now in terms of his immune system challenges."

I got goosebumps....I know there is never any way to know for sure...but as a previous poster said...when DS was born, I just had this feeling my son would have been one of the kids that had a severe reaction with lasting consequences....and fast forward 2 years, so kind of have this feeling validated by a medical professional was interesting for me and reinforced by belief that one should never ignore that mommy instinct!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#9 of 23 Old 06-18-2010, 11:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Krye1011 View Post
Also, for you research mommas, how did you get your DH on board with it? Even mentioning the idea of not getting DTaP at all sends my husband into a tizzy "Well Ive heard several docs say...."
I told my dh that unless he was willing to do as much research into vaccination as I did, it wasn't going to happen. He came to me a couple of months later and said he agreed with me. This is with the second babe. With my first I was not has confident and dh had the habit of concluding that if I could not effectively debate him, then I was wrong. A couple of years later, we were a bit older and he had been in school awhile, he believed more in actually researching before acting.

NOT vaccinating is the default position and the parent needs to justify injecting each prophylactic drug/vaccine into to their child.

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices 1/18DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

Health Sentinel Graphs

WHO GRAPH

Vaccine Injury Table


Beyond Conformity Resources Page
Do you have a quick-fire summary?

Inside Vaccines

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#10 of 23 Old 06-21-2010, 01:50 PM
 
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I started researching vaxes when I was pregnant with my first. The more I learned, the more skeptical I became, both about vaccines' effectiveness or safety and the pharmaceutical medical cartel's safety record. I was fully vaxed as a child and started out thinking that vaccines were natural and safe. The evidence simply didn't support those early assumptions.

DH was a little weirded out at first but agreed with me that the burden of proof is on those who want me to administer powerful drugs with known serious side effects to a perfectly healthy child. Unvaccinated is the default. Give me good, solid evidence for why I should dose my babies with your snake oil, or get out of my face. Scare tactics aren't good enough for me.

By the time DS was born I was a committed non-vaxer and we haven't looked back. It didn't take long for DH (and some very mainstream relatives) to come around when they saw how healthy and happy our child is, and when they realized that I'd done my research, knew what I was talking about, and wasn't going to back down or be bullied. Now, DH is as firm about not vaccinating as I am, which helps a lot.

Listen to your gut, mama. Everyone who's currently pressuring you to vaccinate will vanish into smoke if your kids are harmed by vaccines. You have to live with the consequences, not them, so don't cave to the peer pressure. Once you're comfortable with the research, walk tall and know that you're doing what's best for your family.

Loving wife partners.gif and mama to my sweet little son coolshine.gif (Fall 2008) and a beautiful baby girl babyf.gif(Fall 2010)

 

When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty. --George Bernard Shaw

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#11 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 09:45 AM
 
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When DH and I became parents we were going to delay vaxing until our children were 2. That just seemed like a magical age or something. But as we got more confident in our parenting we became more and more wary. My DH neice is vaccine damaged and will never be normal. She will never live on own or have a normal life expectancy. I remember her not damaged and it kills me. I look at home videos of her before that vaccination and see my daughters in her. We could not take that chance. My DH was totally on board and it helps that most of our family is on board too. I also know several non-vaxers in real life so we have that support as well.

There are days when I ask myself if this is the right choice for us and as long as that answer is yes then we will continue to not vaccinate.

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I love my girlsMadaline(9), Mary-Grace(7), Georgia(3), & Evelyn(1)
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#12 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 10:01 AM
 
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The research often takes you down a path of learning about the diseases and how to support your child through them.
Making an educated decision to leave your child vaccine free is a path to building health.

I've made the observation that a lot of parents who vaccinate without question have a sense that their child is protected and they don't have to do anything to create and foster health for them beyond the usual American diet and such. I've seen bottles of formula microwaved in plastic bags, diets of nothing but chicken nuggets and mac and cheese....etc.

For our family (which already had a strong sense of the need for good whole nutrition) this path has been one of great educating and the conscious building of a health life! The benefit is that our kids have never had any illnesses beyond a passing stomach virus or a minor cold.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#13 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh Mommas! Thanks for all the answers!

I have been researching this since becoming preggo and dont want to vax but like I mentioned earlier my DH isnt on board. He was fine with not getting Hep B while in the hospital but he feels that "little boys should have their tetanus because they'll be getting into all sorts of things." So Im currently trying to introduce the idea that if we didnt vax and DS did get into something that he shouldnt, that there are alternatives out there for us.

I am a research queen but my husband is not. He doesnt have an interest in reading the research himself so giving him the info I find or having him research this on his own isnt really an option. Thats probably the most frustrating part...he says that its not really of interest for him. Dont get me wrong, DH is a WONDERFUL man and an AWESOME daddy...but when it comes to this, he just isnt that interested. So Im a bit stuck. Im becoming more and more confident about not vaxing at all...but I just dont know how to get DH on board.

Thanks for all your stories though. They're really encouraging!
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#14 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Krye1011 View Post
Oh Mommas! Thanks for all the answers!

I have been researching this since becoming preggo and dont want to vax but like I mentioned earlier my DH isnt on board. He was fine with not getting Hep B while in the hospital but he feels that "little boys should have their tetanus because they'll be getting into all sorts of things." So Im currently trying to introduce the idea that if we didnt vax and DS did get into something that he shouldnt, that there are alternatives out there for us.

I am a research queen but my husband is not. He doesnt have an interest in reading the research himself so giving him the info I find or having him research this on his own isnt really an option. Thats probably the most frustrating part...he says that its not really of interest for him. Dont get me wrong, DH is a WONDERFUL man and an AWESOME daddy...but when it comes to this, he just isnt that interested. So Im a bit stuck. Im becoming more and more confident about not vaxing at all...but I just dont know how to get DH on board.

Thanks for all your stories though. They're really encouraging!

You know, I don't mean this to sound harsh at all, please do not take it as such. I'm sure your DH is wonderful. My DH is also wonderful and is the same way...not into the research. BUT the fact remains that when your DH became a father it is no longer about having a interest, it is a RESPONSIBILITY to make the best, most informed choices possible for our children. So I would let him know that he has two choices: 1) He can either research as well as you (or at least agree to read what you find on the subject and put under his nose...this is the option my DH opted for) and become involved in the decision making based on sound information and not conjecture or preconceived notions or 2) He can leave the research up to you and trust that you will make the best desicion for your baby. This means that he gets no say however. I don't think when it comes to something as important as this, one can just say, "Well I think we should vaccinate, (or not). I think this because this is what I have been taught to think and I'm too busy, uninterested or unmotivated to find out the facts before making a major medical decosion for my child" is a cop out IMO. I just told my DH that unless he at least read what I asked him to read, he got no say. He never did/does the active research, but will read things I ask him to. He is now on board with us not vaxing at all.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#15 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 02:13 PM
 
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Your dh has an obligation to make EDUCATED decisions, not fear based ones.

Gosh so much I want to say on this and I just don't have the time at the moment....

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#16 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 02:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Krye1011 View Post
Oh Mommas! Thanks for all the answers!

I have been researching this since becoming preggo and dont want to vax but like I mentioned earlier my DH isnt on board. He was fine with not getting Hep B while in the hospital but he feels that "little boys should have their tetanus because they'll be getting into all sorts of things."

I am a research queen but my husband is not. He doesnt have an interest in reading the research himself so giving him the info I find or having him research this on his own isnt really an option. Thats probably the most frustrating part...he says that its not really of interest for him.
And as I said before, I told my dh that unless he was willing to do as much research into vaccination as I did, it wasn't going to happen. If he doesn't want to put in the effort then he has to rely on your researched decision. I would say "you expect me to allow drugs to be injected into our child that you are not interested enough to verify their necessity and safety? Not vaccinating is the default position, prove to me that each vaccine is necessary and safe for our child."

Nearly everyone on this board has been in your exact position.

Try the Dr. Tenpenny video first; if you have him watch it online it is in shorter incriments. You can also get a book, like the one by Dr. Stephanie Cave, stick the question list in it as a book mark, and leave it for his potty reading .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#17 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 02:24 PM
 
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Try the Dr. Tenpenny video first; if you have him watch it online it is in shorter incriments. You can also get a book, like the one by Dr. Stephanie Cave, stick the question list in it as a book mark, and leave it for his potty reading .
Where are the videos available online? I'm probably just stunted at searching for them, but I just find links to purchasing the Dr. Tenpenny videos.
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#18 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 04:09 PM
 
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I would sit down and talk to DH seriously about this. Maybe go for a drive and discuss this topic (men talk better in an "active" setting ie. driving, playing basket ball and the like) and your feelings seriously. IMHO The Mother Instinct is a VERY important sense. Had I listened to mine, my oldest DS would never been damaged by DTaP. I kick myself every time I think about his vaxes because I KNEW something was wrong, but I ignored it. Tell DH that his opinion is very important to you, but you feel that your Responsibility to DS's health must be first. Tell him that what you've researched has led you to believe that Vaxes are dangerous, at least right now at this size and age.

One thing that helped my DH was to tell him that the decision TO vax can always be changed, but once the shots are in- there is no taking them out. You cannot take back a shot.
I hope you are able to talk to him about this soon, and explain that you cannot in good conscious vax right now. Tell him that you are more than willing to read his research, and to have honest conversations regarding this decision.

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#19 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 07:22 PM
 
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I agree 100% with Marnica. Your husband either has to get interested in researching the topic of vaccines like you are, or he needs to let you make the call. He can't just say he's not interested in researching but then wants to go against your decision from what you ARE researching. He has to remember this is for his children, and vaccines are no joke. It's not something you want to go into blindly. Every parent needs to research them so we are all fully aware. Sadly, not enough parents do their research and just go with whatever good 'ol doc says. I hope you can get your husband to research more and see things more clearly like you Good luck!

Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

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#20 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 10:03 PM
 
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Where are the videos available online? I'm probably just stunted at searching for them, but I just find links to purchasing the Dr. Tenpenny videos.
It's in my post with the questions.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#21 of 23 Old 06-22-2010, 10:04 PM
 
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My DH is a rule-following first born. He was absolutely incredulous at the idea of not vaxing on schedule because that is what everyone does. He also wasn't interested in doing all the research I was doing. I think, when I first started researching during pregnancy, that I planned to delay vax. He went along with that, assuming we would do it some day. I did tell him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't do the research, just saying we needed to do it because that is what is done, was not acceptable. Over time I just wore him down. I discussed it all the time (I was doing a lot of reading).

Another approach that helped was to ask him exactly which diseases he was worried about. I was able to calm his fears about the diseases, since his fears were based on nothing concrete at all. It also helped that our doctor didn't push it, she was cool when I said I wanted to delay and eventually she just stopped asking. If we had a vax-pushing pedi, it may have been more difficult with DH, not sure.

It took me a while to be comfy with my decision, actually. I wasn't willing to get the shots, I just couldn't do it. But the incessant fear mongering is difficult to ignore. I often would wish I was oblivious to the issue. But the older she got without catching a dread disease, the easier it became for me. It's tough when you are going to WBVs every couple months, of course, but it does get easier. At 4 mos they are so helpless, it is hard to question the status quo. I think we have to trust our mommy instinct.
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#22 of 23 Old 06-23-2010, 10:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kiwiva View Post
My DH is a rule-following first born. He was absolutely incredulous at the idea of not vaxing on schedule because that is what everyone does. He also wasn't interested in doing all the research I was doing. I think, when I first started researching during pregnancy, that I planned to delay vax. He went along with that, assuming we would do it some day. I did tell him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't do the research, just saying we needed to do it because that is what is done, was not acceptable. Over time I just wore him down. I discussed it all the time (I was doing a lot of reading).

Another approach that helped was to ask him exactly which diseases he was worried about. I was able to calm his fears about the diseases, since his fears were based on nothing concrete at all. It also helped that our doctor didn't push it, she was cool when I said I wanted to delay and eventually she just stopped asking. If we had a vax-pushing pedi, it may have been more difficult with DH, not sure.

It took me a while to be comfy with my decision, actually. I wasn't willing to get the shots, I just couldn't do it. But the incessant fear mongering is difficult to ignore. I often would wish I was oblivious to the issue. But the older she got without catching a dread disease, the easier it became for me. It's tough when you are going to WBVs every couple months, of course, but it does get easier. At 4 mos they are so helpless, it is hard to question the status quo. I think we have to trust our mommy instinct.

I feel exactly the same way.....I sometimes think ignornace IS bliss!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#23 of 23 Old 07-09-2010, 12:08 PM
 
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On the subject of well baby visits...my doctor (a very natural minded doctor who delays and doesn't vax her own child)...made it clear for me....I took my dd to her 4 month visit (our first appt with her) and she said "so do you have any questions" (me: no)..."do you have any concerns" (me: no)...well then...surely you didn't come here, pay $50.00, for nothing....(me: well..umm...er....I guess at the other doctors it was just assumed we'd go for these appts...and then they'd weigh and measure)....

In other words...we did allthat stuff..and then from that point on...I just didn't go in except for at 1 year so that well baby visits remain on her record so that if a "neglect" issue came up because of my vax choice I have proof that I've taken her for yearly check ups....I only go to the doc now when there is a problem..which is RARE. Olive has only been for well baby visits. I've had to go in once or twice in the last two years for the others....

She just made it clear to me that the WBV's weren't really necessary...I have my own scale and I can use a ruler the same as her. I just was used to the frequent un-necessary visits. So if you are fear mongered at every visit...but you aren't vaxing...maybe you could just skip them and go once a year or only when there is a problem....

HUGS

Martha
Momma to Emma (10), Elzie (8), Gretchen (6), Olive (3), Rogan (1) and Baby #6 due end of April.

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