4 yr. old possible pertussis need advice - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 19 Old 10-13-2010, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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(I am sure I am beating a dead horse, but i looked through a few pages and could't find what I was looking for.)


Okay help. If I suspect my daughter has pertussis and she isn't vaccinated what do i do? She had a tiny ever so slight snotty nose for the last 4 or 5 days, that I had my eye on. Then last night her cough started dry and raspy and this morning I heard that croupy sound first thing when I woke up.

I mean is there any point to going to the clinic right now? I don't want her to go through the eyerolling and baloney, and her cough is just now getting going. when should I take her in, if at all?

I read that they don't even diagnose it properly. they will look at her symptoms, look at her vax record and make a call from there.

All I really want is some cough syrup so nighttime doesn't become hellish with all the kids here.

Also should I pull her out of school as of now?

I am leaning against it, but would any of you vaccinate a younger sib if an older child possibly had it?

Thanks for reading.

Elizabeth, mama to 4 kids and 5 chickens.
The grateful recipient of 3 home water births, 1 being an accidental UC.:
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#2 of 19 Old 10-13-2010, 01:07 PM
 
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I am no expert on pertussis, but I suspect DS might have just had it. I wish I had more time to respond, but I wanted to at least send you a link that helped me navigate through the progression of the illness:

http://www.drgreene.com/azguide/pertussis

Good luck in whatever you find!

Also, Sodium Ascorbate is recommended on this forum for aiding in preventing the severity of the illness!

God bless!

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#3 of 19 Old 10-13-2010, 01:23 PM
 
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My daughter (17 months) had similar symptoms a month ago and was diagnosed with croup. This week she has a high fever and bad junky cough, and was diagnosed with bronchiolitis. The doctor never even tested for pertussis. She did have a DTaP in July though.

Hyland's makes a good cough syrup with honey in it. You don't need a prescription for cough syrup.

If you do feel like she needs to get seen and the doc gives you a hard time about pertussis, ask to have her tested before being diagnosed.

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#4 of 19 Old 10-13-2010, 01:56 PM
 
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I'm sorry your daughter isn't feeling well. Croup is not the same thing as pertussis, btw. Croup (that barky cough) is caused by a virus that swells the upper airway. I hope its just viral and she is on the mend soon.

ETA: yes, I would pull her out of school until she's better....mostly for her sake though. Croup or pertussis, she needs rest more than anything.
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#5 of 19 Old 10-13-2010, 02:28 PM
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Hard to say whether or not it's pertussis at this point. And how you proceed is your call. A doctor can test for pertussis and, if pertussis is suspected, likely will order the test. If it comes back positive, he/she will prescribe antibiotics.

If you take the ABX they likely will not help the symptoms at this point (you have to take them very early on in order to have much effect). However, five days on abx and she will no longer be considered contagious and will be free to go back to school.

If you do not do ABX, the school will likely require that she stay home for 21 days from the start of the cough (considered the contagious period).

Cough syrup usually will not help the pertussis cough. Your best bet is sodium ascorbate to bowel tolerance. But again, if you suspect pertussis, please keep her home and, if your suspicion is correct, she is still contagious and could spread it to others (including infants and those for whom pertussis could be very serious).

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#6 of 19 Old 10-13-2010, 04:21 PM
 
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As a pp said, croup and pertussis are different illnesses. Also, the course of illness for pertussis is about a week of respiratory symptoms, a lull where the illness seems to be resolving, then coughing continuing beyond the second week with proximal coughing a strong indicator (severe fit of coughing--"the whoop" is the sharp intake of air after coughing or between bouts).

CROUP

Natural course of 500 consecutive cases of whooping cough: a general practice population study
(You can read Results first).

Also, last year we all developed bronchitis from ds' pink eye infection that started out like a cold.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#7 of 19 Old 10-14-2010, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for your posts. I had read through plenty here over the years and again today, and somehow i missed the sodium ascorbate info so thanks so much for that heads up.

I should clarify about the croupy cough. our now 6 year old has had croup literally every winter since he was born. oh lord did it scare me the first night I heard that out of my 3 month old!! so after all this time I know what it sounds like. he also was vaccinated once or twice for dtap, it's hard to know how many times because here they fill in your vax record for all the past dates even if they didn't actually get the shot. but any way I understand the difference between croup and pertussis. if i didn't i wouldn't have much business non vaxing would i lol? all i was saying is that her cough went from dry to junky/barky with a croup like sound to it. without any other symptoms except this strange snotty nose. it's not running, shes not sneezing, it's just been this little glisteny shine in her nostril for a week that has struck me as odd. when the cough hit i was like alrighty then, maybe this is it. pertussis has always worried me so i am always on the lookout for symptoms. so far we have been lucky in that the kids have so far developed coughs without a uri preceding it. so this got my attention. plus she just started public school with a classroom size of 30 kids.

i am mainly still wondering what the benefits would be to having an official diagnosis vs just riding it out. and of course the issue of vaxxing the 2 year old sib, is there much point? I don't want to do the antibiotics due to the effect they seem to have on the infected person. yes it may slow the spread but at the cost of another week of illness?

okay thanks as always for the help!

ps thanks Emmeline, that is a great article.

Elizabeth, mama to 4 kids and 5 chickens.
The grateful recipient of 3 home water births, 1 being an accidental UC.:
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#8 of 19 Old 10-14-2010, 10:26 AM
 
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Pertussis, to me, is like rotavirus. If you have a different tummy bug but you're not sure if it's rota, it's NOT rota. Similarly, if you have a cough, but you're not sure if it's pertussis, it's likely NOT.

I had pertussis in 2006: months of coughing until I vomited several times a day, and now I have reactive airway disease. Not fun at all, but also not something that I would confuse with any other run-of-the-mill cold or cough.

ETA: it's also possible to get a very mild case of VADs. But of course in that case, you'd likely not bat an eyelash because it would pass like any other little bug.

As they say, if you hear hooves, think horses before zebras.

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#9 of 19 Old 10-14-2010, 06:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redebeth View Post
all i was saying is that her cough went from dry to junky/barky with a croup like sound to it. without any other symptoms except this strange snotty nose. it's not running, shes not sneezing, it's just been this little glisteny shine in her nostril for a week that has struck me as odd. when the cough hit i was like alrighty then, maybe this is it. pertussis has always worried me so i am always on the lookout for symptoms....

i am mainly still wondering what the benefits would be to having an official diagnosis vs just riding it out. and of course the issue of vaxxing the 2 year old sib, is there much point? I don't want to do the antibiotics due to the effect they seem to have on the infected person. yes it may slow the spread but at the cost of another week of illness?
I don't think her symptoms fit pertussis. The time line is off and pertussis does not sound "croupy" or "barky," though bronchitis can. But if you want to test her do it ASAP because it is most accurate in the first two weeks of the illness.

Vaxing wouldn't be helpful for the 2yo, she has already been exposed.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#10 of 19 Old 10-15-2010, 12:39 PM
 
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but any way I understand the difference between croup and pertussis. if i didn't i wouldn't have much business non vaxing would i lol?
Not necessarily! we all have to educate ourselves as things come up - we couldn't possibly foresee all the ins and outs of childhood bugs and individual presentations! But in answer to your main question: I would ride it out, but that's just me. It is whatever it is and if it is pertussis, the duration won't really be helped by naming it or treating it. A pp mentioned with antibiotics you could get her back to school quicker because she wouldn't be contagious...and I guess that's a compelling reason depending on your work situation.
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#11 of 19 Old 10-15-2010, 07:49 PM
 
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Hi there...

Here's a couple of links to the CDC pages re: pertussis for anyone looking for info:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/sur...-pertussis.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/ncphi/disss/nndss...is_current.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...loads/pert.pdf

My DS had pertussis in March. He didn't sound croupy or barky either...it was like the coughs you can find posted online...cough-cough-cough-cough-cough-cough-cough-cough-cough-whoop (inhale for breath)-cough (and possible vomiting at the end). My DD has croup once and the two coughs sound different.

Abx won't do anything to the course of the illness (except possibly make recovery longer)...they're only good if you don't want to do the 21 day quarantine.

And if it is pertussis, sodium ascorbate to bowel tolerance will make a difference in the coughing (frequency and intensity) after a few days on it.

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#12 of 19 Old 11-03-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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japonica-If I may ask, how did your DS do with the pertussis? How bad was it? How long did it take to pass?

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#13 of 19 Old 11-03-2010, 02:58 PM
 
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What's a good brand of SA?
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#14 of 19 Old 11-03-2010, 08:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RMM1117 View Post
japonica-If I may ask, how did your DS do with the pertussis? How bad was it? How long did it take to pass?
The long version is in my posts in this thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1250683

He did just fine...about 4-5 weeks total until he was done with it. The first few days of paroxysmal coughing were the worst. Whooping, puking, coughing all night...we started SA to bowel tolerance and as soon as it kicked in (in a couple of days' time), it did make a difference: he started sleeping through most of the night again and the coughing was less intense and less often. Still paroxysmal coughing, but the vomiting and whooping subsided.

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#15 of 19 Old 11-03-2010, 08:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TonyaW View Post
What's a good brand of SA?
I'm sure others will chime in with their favorites. I just bought Bronson's a few times because it was fairly easy to get online and they shipped to Canada when we lived there.

http://www.bronsonvitamins.com/50A/vitamin-c-crystals

I couldn't find any SA locally in any of the health food shops (and I called all the major ones in my city of over a million people).

I'm just sourcing Aussie SA distributors now...one of the joys of moving...trying to find new sources for "must have" items.

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#16 of 19 Old 11-03-2010, 09:41 PM
 
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Japonica-thanks for responding! How do you know how much SA to give a child? Is there a way to figure it based on age/weight?

Also, is SA helpful in other illnesses? (Sorry, not trying to get too OT.)

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#17 of 19 Old 11-04-2010, 03:03 AM
 
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Rule of thumb for SA is to give in increments until the sick person passes soft stools. That is the saturation point.

Other animals in the animal kingdom make their own ascorbic acid from the glucose factor in their bodies. They make as much as 4000 milligrams a day for their own use.

The government RDA is enough to keep a person from getting scurvy. I believe it is 63 milligrams a day.
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#18 of 19 Old 11-05-2010, 01:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RMM1117 View Post
Japonica-thanks for responding! How do you know how much SA to give a child? Is there a way to figure it based on age/weight?

Also, is SA helpful in other illnesses? (Sorry, not trying to get too OT.)
dosing is based on weight. general guidelines for pertussis are 275 - 350mg per 2.2 pounds of body weight. and adjust from there with your goal being soft stolls, but not the runs. and yes SA is good for any viral or bacterial illness IMO.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#19 of 19 Old 11-06-2010, 03:46 AM
 
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dosing is based on weight. general guidelines for pertussis are 275 - 350mg per 2.2 pounds of body weight. and adjust from there with your goal being soft stolls, but not the runs. and yes SA is good for any viral or bacterial illness IMO.
Yeah, that. I just used it to bowel tolerance for pertussis and for my 30lb DS, he hit that point at about 4.5g. It varies for everyone, even from illness to illness.

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