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#1 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, so I know the tetanus vax is rediculous (how can you be immune to a poison?!) but right now I'm a little worried. Just stepped barefoot on a piece of wood with 8 nails sticking out of it. It went about half an inch into my heel, and getting it out took about 5-10 mins so the nails were in my foot for a while. (managed to do it without swearing in front of the kids though!!)

So, my friends advice is to just get a tetanus jab - I already know I dont want to do that - but what SHOULD I do? Thought it was best to ask on this forum because everywhere else i'll just get the standard vaccine response.

I've washed it and put antiseptic on it. Is there anything else?

Thanks
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#2 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 08:57 AM
 
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DTaP In the United States, tetanus is primarily a disease of older adults. Persons greater than or equal to 40 years of age now account for over 70% of reported cases. Tetanus Surveillance 1998-2000 , Power of 10. An average of 43 people per year contract Tetanus and there are 0-2 deaths out of a population of 301,139,947 (over 300 MILLION) in the US. (In comparison (FEMA) estimates that "300 people are injured and 80 people are killed each year by lightning" each year in the U.S.).

“From 1992 through 2000 (9 years), 15 cases of tetanus in children <15 years of age were reported from 11 states. Two cases were in neonates <10 days of age; the other 13 cases were in children who ranged in age from 3to 14 years. The median length of hospitalization was 28 days; 8 children required mechanical ventilation.” (Pedatrics). There were no deaths. (I don't have info on their state of health or wound care).

It is not the rust that causes tetanus, so a rusty nail in and of itself is not the issue. Tetanus needs an anaerobic environment to thrive. A wound that has bled is not typically that environment. Keep it clean and covered.
A Tetanus vax at time of injury is supposed to be a booster to those current on vax and TIG (tetanus immunoglobulin) is for the unvaxed.

"Keep in mind that the tetanus vaccine became available for widespread civilian use in the late 1940's. Thus tetanus mortality had declined from 205 deaths per 100,000 wounds in the American Civil War (1860) to about .4 deaths per 100,000 population in 1947 at the beginning of widespread civilian use of the vaccine. This means that sanitation, nutrition, year around nutritional improvements, general hygiene, and wound hygiene had reduced the mortality and incidence of tetanus by as much as 99.8 percent before the widespread use of tetanus vaccine." Hilary Butler 89wds


http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/medica...ium_tetani.htm
http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/clostridia.html

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#3 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 01:55 PM
 
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If you let your wound bleed and then cleaned it properly, I honestly think your risk of tetanus is slim to none!

Tetanus is caused by toxins produced by a bacterium called Clostridium tetani. The spores lie dormant in dust, soil and manure and can enter the body through puncture wounds. The big thing with Tetanus though, is the fact that ...it can't multiply in an anaerobic environment (oxygen free). Making sure a wound bleeds (because blood has oxygen) and taking care with proper hygiene would eliminate the possibility of tetanus in most cases.

From 1990-1999, which is 10 years, there were 473 cases of tetanus in the U.S. 70 died (15%), and in Australia, there are about 10 cases per year with 10% dying. Also, most cases of tetanus occur in adults over 50 years old. Only 5 % of tetanus cases in the U.S. were in people less than 20 years old and those were rarely fatal.

Many studies have documented adverse reactions from the tetanus vaccine including neurological and paralytic disorders like Gulliain Barre syndrome, demyelinating diseases, arthritis, joint inflammation, anaphylactic shock, and others.

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#4 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, feel loads less worried. At 1st tetanus didnt cross my mind as I knew it wasnt overly common (not sure what the statistics are for UK). Then a friend kinda worried me by panicking about it - "oh you need to get the tetanus jab QUICKLY!"

But yep, it bled, I cleaned it and will be keeping it clean.

Ahhh, this is why I love this forum.
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#5 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 04:44 PM
 
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Um, if you had nails stuck in your foot for 5-10 minutes, you could have real damage there. Have you had it checked out? Even if you don't do a tetanus shot or antibiotics, I would want to have it evaluated for what level of wound care you need. It could make the difference between a great heal and persistent pain for the rest of your life.
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#6 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 04:56 PM
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Um, if you had nails stuck in your foot for 5-10 minutes, you could have real damage there. Have you had it checked out? Even if you don't do a tetanus shot or antibiotics, I would want to have it evaluated for what level of wound care you need. It could make the difference between a great heal and persistent pain for the rest of your life.
The bottom of the foot is very sensitive and having pain there sucks. BTDT and you don't want to be there.
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#7 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 06:06 PM
 
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I am antivax, however when I was looking at injuries that statistically caused tetanus, they were often in the foot and not just in farmers. I would at the very least have the wound cleaned out and ask a doctor about the use of antibiotics. Dr Tennpenny recommends a particular antibiotic for tetanus prone injuries, and I consider multiple puncture wounds in the foot a tetanus prone injury. I would use Ledum and soak the foot in Epsom salts 3 times a day. Also, many recommend using hydrogen peroxide and I read somewhere to soak with Epsom salts to draw out bacteria and then soak with hydrogen peroxide to really clean debris out.

Also, I would use a good buffered C in a high dose for at least a week.

These are some of the things I did when my son was bitten by a cat, I also used Chlorella which supposedly is a blood cleanser and helps with tissue oxygenation. My chiropractor recommended Astragalus to help thin the blood.

From Dr Tennpenny:
"Antibiotic regimens are available for the treatment of both tetanus and diphtheria infections. The Red Book™, published by the American Academy of Pediatrics makes a suggestion for an alternative treatment for tetanus. The antibiotic, metronidazole (30 mg/kg/day) given at 6-hour intervals is effective in reducing the bacterial count in a wound. Metronidazole is the antibiotic of choice for dirty wounds. Another choice is injectible penicillin G (100 000 U/kg/day), given at 4- to 6-hour intervals. These therapies should be continued for 10 to 14 days (14). It appears that a prophylactic course of antibiotics would be prudent for dirty wounds to prevent the possibility of C. tetani germination and toxin production."
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#8 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 06:09 PM
 
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If you feel that you are really at risk then go get the TIG after the injury it is to late for the tetinus vax anyway. It takes up to 2 weeks (I think that is right could be 3 weeks) for the vax to start to produce immunity but the TIG works from injection.

 
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#9 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 06:13 PM
 
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Keep it clean, perhaps go to a wound clinic, but no need for a shot. Tetanus is due to puncture wounds being infected with feces. The wounds were common to farmers, and are practically unheard of in anyone else. The tetanus is not due to the rusty nail by itself, but the animal fecal matter that victims fail to wash out of their puncture wound.
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#10 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 08:14 PM
 
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Tetanus is due to puncture wounds being infected with feces.
Tetanus is due to a wound being contaminated with spores of C. tetani, which can persist in the environment long after the animal scat with which they were deposited has disappeared.
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#11 of 24 Old 10-26-2010, 11:49 PM
 
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OP, I would be getting your wounds checked out to reduce your risk of all infections, not just tetanus.

Quote:
In the United States, tetanus is primarily a disease of older adults. Persons greater than or equal to 40 years of age now account for over 70% of reported cases. Tetanus Surveillance 1998-2000 , Power of 10. An average of 43 people per year contract Tetanus and there are 0-2 deaths out of a population of 301,139,947 (over 300 MILLION) in the US. (In comparison (FEMA) estimates that "300 people are injured and 80 people are killed each year by lightning" each year in the U.S.).
That would be because the vaccination coverage is excellent, and the older the person the longer since their last booster.
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#12 of 24 Old 10-27-2010, 12:19 AM
 
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That would be because the vaccination coverage is excellent, and the older the person the longer since their last booster.
Where did you read this? Adult tetanus vaccination is about 57% and that's a 10 perctange point increase from 10 years ago.

From the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5940a3.htm

"...tetanus vaccination coverage ranged from 57.2% among adults aged 18--49 years to 44.1% among those aged ≥65 years...Despite the 10 percentage point increase in coverage noted from 1999 to 2008, the findings of this report suggest that these suboptimal coverage levels have remained."
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#13 of 24 Old 10-27-2010, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I may have made the wounds sound worse than they actually are, the nails were very thin, more like needles than the normal thicker nails. So the wounds literally couldnt be cleaned out, it looks just like I've stood on a thorn... well, 8 thorns. Its not even red or swollen around the marks.
That said I think I'll go to the doc and talk about antibiotics (just in case of infection) although dont feel comfortable about TIG, I'm still baffled by the theory that you can become immune to a toxin. And I've started on the Vitamin C.
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#14 of 24 Old 10-27-2010, 05:01 PM
 
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I'm still baffled by the theory that you can become immune to a toxin.
From the point of view of the immune system, tetanospasmin is just another protein.
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From 1992 through 2000 (9 years), 15 cases of tetanus in children <15 years of age were reported from 11 states. Two cases were in neonates <10 days of age
I want to know how the neonates contracted tetanus?!

When we were renovating our house I stepped on a nail, twice in one summer. Both had been outside in the yard. I just let them bleed, cleaned with peroxide, and soaked them in epsom salt baths. I was fine. I'd bet you will be too and can do without antibiotics but of course follow your intuition.

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#16 of 24 Old 10-28-2010, 10:21 AM
 
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I think I may have made the wounds sound worse than they actually are, the nails were very thin, more like needles than the normal thicker nails. So the wounds literally couldnt be cleaned out, it looks just like I've stood on a thorn... well, 8 thorns. Its not even red or swollen around the marks.
That said I think I'll go to the doc and talk about antibiotics (just in case of infection) although dont feel comfortable about TIG, I'm still baffled by the theory that you can become immune to a toxin. And I've started on the Vitamin C.
If you where unable to clean them out good then I would be headed to the Dr. The type of wound you describe would be the kind where I would worry about tetanus. If they where more open I would be less concerned.

 
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#17 of 24 Old 10-28-2010, 01:15 PM
 
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I want to know how the neonates contracted tetanus?!
From using some kind of dirt/clay to heal the umbilical wound.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#18 of 24 Old 10-28-2010, 04:13 PM
 
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From using some kind of dirt/clay to heal the umbilical wound.
And cutting the cord with a non-sterile instrument.
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The one case was from applying of "healing clay" and the other was an umbilical infection from an "unknown source."

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OK, so I know the tetanus vax is rediculous (how can you be immune to a poison?!) but right now I'm a little worried. Just stepped barefoot on a piece of wood with 8 nails sticking out of it. It went about half an inch into my heel, and getting it out took about 5-10 mins so the nails were in my foot for a while. (managed to do it without swearing in front of the kids though!!)

So, my friends advice is to just get a tetanus jab - I already know I dont want to do that - but what SHOULD I do? Thought it was best to ask on this forum because everywhere else i'll just get the standard vaccine response.

I've washed it and put antiseptic on it. Is there anything else?

Thanks
I would at least get it checked out. Pay attention to any reddening, swelling pain or change in color around the area. My dh stepped on something inside the house and ended up with a nasty staph infection, but not tetanus.
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#21 of 24 Old 10-28-2010, 09:13 PM
 
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I agree with everyone who suggested keeping the wound clean and upping your vit C intake. If u don't want the vax, don't get it. Simple as that

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#22 of 24 Old 12-03-2010, 09:50 AM
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I'm adding to this thread as I want to hear from those participating, and it seems OP has her questions answered.

 

we are non-vax. Eldest, now 10, stepped a a rusty nail a few years back. I posted here, got loads of help. Injuries like that get a standard treament in our house: bleed, soak with epsom, honey on it, band-aid, ledum, vit C, repeat.

 

Fine. But everyone seems to throw the same replies out at me (non-vaxers) when I try to learn more about Tet. "It's an infection of older people". Why? "It's not an infection of children." This is because of god circulation? We know of a boy who lived rurally and died of tet, so dh is freaked by my stance. "it's in horse feces". No it's not, it's in everything, including our guts.

 

Is it really that, as long as wound does not look/get infected, it's not going to be tetanus? I know what infection looks like, so I watch for that. But if it does look infected, it's too late then for antiT toxin shots anyway, so then what???  But as educated as I can get on this, when they get a wound of concern, I think of tetanus and hope they don't get it. Perhaps this is the false hope vax's have created, that they WILL protect my kids, and since I'm choosing not to, I have no guaranteed protection. 3 older folks died here on the island of tet 5 years ago. I called the health board to find out how/who, were they drug users, how did they get it, were they healthy, etc and they did not know. Yes kids who've had it can get hospitalised and recover, but that can mean months of hospitalization, breathing machines, jeez, isolation from friends, what about the other kids you're supposed to be parenting while you're in the hospital each day visiting infected child? It just gets me when I really think on it.

 

it just feels like, amidst those who know their stuff and are open to honest discussion on tet (and vaxes) alot of dogma gets thrown about as well, which does not answer my questions or make me feel better. You?


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#23 of 24 Old 12-03-2010, 10:42 AM
 
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This is the one vax I have struggled with because my logic can go either way on this one. However, I am not giving the Tetanus vax for now to my 4 year old son. I spoke with Dr Tennpenny about this and we agreed, that in my son's particular case, it would be a very bad idea to vax him due to family history and allergies.

 

I don't know the pre vaccination rates of tetanus among children, and if I could find out that info, I think that would help with my overall understanding of tetanus. Currently, among children tetanus is rare. For me, I do not know if it is because it really is very hard to contract or because of the vax. However pre vaccine there was an obvious decline in tetanus cases in general due to better wound care. I think there was only 500 or so cases of tetanus in the US pre vaccine with better wound care and sanitation. The statistics among children in the US was very low among children during the studies which took place during a 15 year time period after vaccination. Tetanus was seen more among the unvaccinated, however it was also seen in vaccinated children. Also, if you search google for Dr Tennpenny and tetanus, you will find a study which shows that the vaccine status of 60 or so people was unknown and they contracted tetanus in which it can be assumed that some people either received a primary series or at least some vaccines for tetanus.

 

My son had one injury, a cat bite, that I felt was seriously tetanus prone. It was a small puncture wound which was impossible to clean and from a farm cat. Obviously my son didn't get tetanus. My son got a lot of wooden splinters from a horse farm in October and hasn't gotten tetanus. However, I am very vigilant with wound care, ledum, and immune boosting under such circumstances. And for a bad enough wound I would ask for an antibiotic that is suppose to kill C Tetani and or tetanus antitoxin for a wound which is torn, ripped or crushed.

 

Also for me it is hard to say whether older people get tetanus as a result of poor circulation, wound care  or lack of a booster vax. However, I would think that since many people do fail to get a booster vax, that if that was a significant cause of people getting tetanus then there would be many more cases than currently seen. Also, people who have had a booster get tetanus. For me at this point, there is just no way to know logically and it could all go either way. If I were to venture to guess, I would say that tetanus isn't truly understood.

 

In other countries, more tetanus is seen without vaccination but also with improper wound care.

 

Tetanus is very rare even prevaccine in the US due to sanitation. It is much more likely to contract something else that we vaccinate for but tetanus is one of those diseases that is scary to me but seems very unlikely.

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#24 of 24 Old 12-03-2010, 10:45 AM
 
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This is the one vax I have struggled with because my logic can go either way on this one. However, I am not giving the Tetanus vax for now to my 4 year old son. I spoke with Dr Tennpenny about this and we agreed, that in my son's particular case, it would be a very bad idea to vax him due to family history and allergies.

 

I don't know the pre vaccination rates of tetanus among children, and if I could find out that info, I think that would help with my overall understanding of tetanus. Currently, among children tetanus is rare. For me, I do not know if it is because it really is very hard to contract or because of the vax. However pre vaccine there was an obvious decline in tetanus cases in general due to better wound care. I think there was only 500 or so cases of tetanus in the US pre vaccine with better wound care and sanitation. The statistics among children in the US was very low among children during the studies which took place during a 15 year time period after vaccination. Tetanus was seen more among the unvaccinated, however it was also seen in vaccinated children. Also, if you search google for Dr Tennpenny and tetanus, you will find a study which shows that the vaccine status of 60 or so people was unknown and they contracted tetanus in which it can be assumed that some people either received a primary series or at least some vaccines for tetanus.

 

My son had one injury, a cat bite, that I felt was seriously tetanus prone. It was a small puncture wound which was impossible to clean and from a farm cat. Obviously my son didn't get tetanus. My son got a lot of wooden splinters from a horse farm in October and hasn't gotten tetanus. However, I am very vigilant with wound care, ledum, and immune boosting under such circumstances. And for a bad enough wound I would ask for an antibiotic that is suppose to kill C Tetani and or tetanus antitoxin for a wound which is torn, ripped or crushed.

 

Also for me it is hard to say whether older people get tetanus as a result of poor circulation, wound care  or lack of a booster vax. However, I would think that since many people do fail to get a booster vax, that if that was a significant cause of people getting tetanus then there would be many more cases than currently seen. Also, people who have had a booster get tetanus as seen in the statistics. For me at this point, there is just no way to know logically and it could all go either way. If I were to venture to guess, I would say that tetanus isn't truly understood.

 

In other countries, more tetanus is seen without vaccination but also with improper wound care.

 

Tetanus is very rare even prevaccine in the US due to sanitation. It is much more likely to contract something else that we vaccinate for but tetanus is one of those diseases that is scary to me but seems very unlikely.



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