Not looking forward to the panic this "news" will cause - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-05-2011, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This news article was posted by someone on FB today.  I can see the fearmongering all over it, but I just know I'll be hearing about this at my LO's next appointment, especially since there have been cases in Minnesota where I live.  This doesn't change my decision to not vax at all, rather I'm frustrated that people are panicking over this "outbreak". 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383966/Measles-US-set-worst-outbreak-10-years-disease-sweeps-Europe.html

 

 


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Old 05-05-2011, 09:46 PM
 
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Quote from article:

 

"But in Europe immunisation rates have fallen over the last decade after a discredited study linked the MMR vaccine to autism, sparking the outbreak."

 

Discredited study? Oh yeah, they mean Wakefield. Thank goodness for Wakefield, because now we have somebody to blame.


 
 
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:41 PM
 
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But I WANT my kid to get Measles. It's like chicken pox to my parent's generation....I want mine to get it and have real lifetime immunity as they normally would if we left well enough alone.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Quote from article:

 

"But in Europe immunisation rates have fallen over the last decade after a discredited study linked the MMR vaccine to autism, sparking the outbreak."

 

Discredited study? Oh yeah, they mean Wakefield. Thank goodness for Wakefield, because now we have somebody to blame.



 

 

You got it.  We love to blame those who come forward and question the safety of vaccines and who actually care for kids and want to help them rather than harm them. Quite scary and twisted, this world we live in.

 


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Old 05-06-2011, 04:56 AM
 
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The whole thing is weird though - it seems to say that the outbreak has been caused by us terrible non-vaxing Europeans (i vax BTW, but i'm also European) BUT the outbreaks are in the US...which would seem to suggest....stop me if i am mistaken....THE VACCINE ISN'T THAT EFFECTIVE.

 

Seriously?  And "THE WORST OUTBREAK IN MORE THAN TEN YEARS"?  Translation: a few people got a rash.  No-one died.  Wow, that is terrible.  It's like the worst outbreak of conjuctivitis this house has ever seen which we had 2 months ago.  One of the baby's eyes got sticky.  Ok, not that bad, but it was the worst we'd ever had!

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Old 05-06-2011, 06:09 AM
 
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I am in an area of europe where there is a measles and whooping cough epidemic supposedly. We vax but only 3, measles not being one of them at the moment. Like pp said, I have read too much about the ineffectiveness of vaxes (ie vaxed kids getting the diseases anyway). We get a lot fo pressure to vax for the measles from the ped. The homeopath was surprised when I said not pertussis, made sure I understood teh potential seriousness and then dropped it. The pharmacist was all up in arms about us not having the vax with pertussis. I had to say look not stupid or arbitrarily putting my kid at risk. I get it, the risk is real here, etc. Give me the vax w/o it, thanks. 


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Old 05-06-2011, 09:50 AM
 
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Measles is really not all that bad. I would prefer my child to have measles, than to get the MMR vax. Plus, it's the daily mail, I don't believe there the most reputable source of information....


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Old 05-06-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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I don't condone the fear-mongering, and I don't plan to get my DC the MMR vax. BUT, every time I read the no-vax forum, I am struck by how poor many of the arguments are. I really don't mean to offend anyone, but this really bothers me. 

 

 

Quote:
The whole thing is weird though - it seems to say that the outbreak has been caused by us terrible non-vaxing Europeans (i vax BTW, but i'm also European) BUT the outbreaks are in the US...which would seem to suggest....stop me if i am mistaken....THE VACCINE ISN'T THAT EFFECTIVE.

 

The vaccine efficacy rates are actually well known: 95% after one dose, 98% after two doses, in people 1 year of age and older. The article says that 79 of the 89 people who contracted measles were unvaccinated. All this seems consistent to me.shrug.gif

 

 

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Discredited study? Oh yeah, they mean Wakefield. Thank goodness for Wakefield, because now we have somebody to blame. 

 

Wakefield's study IS discredited. His sloppy epidemiology and honestly, outright deception in some cases, has set back the vaccine safety movement more than any pro-vax research I can think of. Let's stop holding him up as a hero. I'm sure I get flamed for saying this. 


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Old 05-06-2011, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Metis View Post

 

The vaccine efficacy rates are actually well known: 95% after one dose, 98% after two doses, in people 1 year of age and older. The article says that 79 of the 89 people who contracted measles were unvaccinated. All this seems consistent to me.shrug.gif

 

 



Those aren't the numbers that I've seen.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/mmr/


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Old 05-06-2011, 03:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Metis View Post

 

 

Wakefield's study IS discredited. His sloppy epidemiology and honestly, outright deception in some cases, has set back the vaccine safety movement more than any pro-vax research I can think of. Let's stop holding him up as a hero. I'm sure I get flamed for saying this. 



I'm not going to flame you on this, but I do disagree. I don't think he has been discredited.  Between Brian Deer and Wakefield, I choose to trust Wakefield. There is a great interview with him, where he explains his side. http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=608256A446123276E4E72A5351322186

 


 
 
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Metis View Post

Wakefield's study IS discredited. His sloppy epidemiology and honestly, outright deception in some cases, has set back the vaccine safety movement more than any pro-vax research I can think of. Let's stop holding him up as a hero. I'm sure I get flamed for saying this. 

 

This would be for an entirely new thread but since you mention it.....Can't we say the same about Thorsen? While Wakefield's studies are completely denounced right away and he so-called "discredited" himself, how come the studies Poul Thorsen (an "insider" for the CDC) has done to "disprove" the vaccine/autism link are not denounced after becoming indicted for money laundering and fraud? Talk about outright deception.  They haven't questioned the integrity of his studies in the least.and the CDC still supports his research (which doesn't surprise me at all).  It goes much deeper than the Wakefield thing (which I disagree with your post above). Thorsen oversaw millions in grant money from the CDC to provide research on the autism/vaccine link. He stole money intended for research and used that money for his own personal use.   His research has been widely quoted stating vaccines are safe, yet he stole over $1 million dollars in CDC grant money for autism research. Would you believe anything that guy has "researched?" Why aren't his scientific papers being retracted?  The way I see it, there are far too many conflicts of interest within the CDC (and pharm for that matter) for me to believe anything regarding the autism/vaccine research conducted.

 


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Old 05-07-2011, 02:31 PM
 
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This is a good point. Sorry for taking the thread off-topic. 
 

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This would be for an entirely new thread but since you mention it.....Can't we say the same about Thorsen? While Wakefield's studies are completely denounced right away and he so-called "discredited" himself, how come the studies Poul Thorsen (an "insider" for the CDC) has done to "disprove" the vaccine/autism link are not denounced after becoming indicted for money laundering and fraud? Talk about outright deception.  They haven't questioned the integrity of his studies in the least.and the CDC still supports his research (which doesn't surprise me at all).  It goes much deeper than the Wakefield thing (which I disagree with your post above). Thorsen oversaw millions in grant money from the CDC to provide research on the autism/vaccine link. He stole money intended for research and used that money for his own personal use.   His research has been widely quoted stating vaccines are safe, yet he stole over $1 million dollars in CDC grant money for autism research. Would you believe anything that guy has "researched?" Why aren't his scientific papers being retracted?  The way I see it, there are far too many conflicts of interest within the CDC (and pharm for that matter) for me to believe anything regarding the autism/vaccine research conducted.

 



 


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Old 05-07-2011, 03:57 PM
 
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This is a good point. Sorry for taking the thread off-topic. 


No, I think it actually may be a great discussion for a new thread.  I just can't grasp why people say he discredited himself when he merely was asking questions, researching, and looking into the safety of vaccines.  Brian Deer is a liar. The link BeckyBird provided of the interview is great for those who want to understand more about the issue. 

 

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Old 05-07-2011, 04:32 PM
 
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No, I think it actually may be a great discussion for a new thread.  I just can't grasp why people say he discredited himself when he merely was asking questions, researching, and looking into the safety of vaccines.  Brian Deer is a liar. The link BeckyBird provided of the interview is great for those who want to understand more about the issue. 

 

Another day, another thread, I supposesmile.gif
 

 


He is discredited because he falsified some scientific data.  He did not follow the scientific method for his research, I do not have my sources for this, but I did read this somewhere reputable, but I did not bookmark it.  I agree any progress made by the vaccine safety movement has been set back significantly by his work b/c now anyone questioning vaccine safety will be associated with his work

 

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Old 05-09-2011, 08:34 AM
 
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Yes, this. His epidemiology was very sloppy. If his study had been conducted to show vaccine safety, this board would have had it ripped to shreds in two minutes. thumb.gif

 

But, more importantly, he also acted irresponsibly and did not comply with the ethical standards of his field. For example, he did not have his research plan reviewed by an institutional review board, which is a minimum standard for ethical medical research. He subjected autistic children to highly invasive and risky medical procedures, which may be justifiable in limited situations where the potential benefits outweigh the risks, but not until MUCH more data was available to support his hypothesis. We're talking lumbar punctures (spinal taps), biopsies, colonoscopies, etc. Since this is a board where most people hate to give their kids tylenol, I always expect people to be more outraged about this. He also was not a pediatrician, and thus did not have the professional credentials to order such invasive procedures. Before you just start testing on real humans willy-nilly (especially children!) you have to have a significant body of evidence (laboratory, epidemiologic, animal studies, for example) showing support for your hypothesis.  He didn't have this, his results were never replicated and his hypothesis was ultimately nullified. There's more, including evidence of actual falsification, but the above is what bothers me the most. 

 

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He is discredited because he falsified some scientific data.  He did not follow the scientific method for his research, I do not have my sources for this, but I did read this somewhere reputable, but I did not bookmark it.  I agree any progress made by the vaccine safety movement has been set back significantly by his work b/c now anyone questioning vaccine safety will be associated with his work

 



 


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Old 05-09-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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 I agree any progress made by the vaccine safety movement has been set back significantly by his work b/c now anyone questioning vaccine safety will be associated with his work

 

 

While this may be true to a point (only because of the society we live in, the big wigs at the top, and those who enjoy finding fault with those questioning anything about vaccines), I don't agree that the vaccine safety movement should be set back at all because of the work of Wakefield, whether people hate him or not.  There was and always will be a question mark over vaccine safety no matter who does the research, how the research is conducted, etc. If there wasn't any question at all about vaccine safety, would so many people be suffering severe reactions to them, and even worse? shake.gif

 

I don't make any conclusions off of one person's research. I look at both sides, study the facts about vaccines themselves, and then make my own conclusions about how I feel about their safety.  I would hope others do the same rather than making their conclusions based on one study in the past that they feel is flawed, turning their back on the vaccine safety movement entirely.


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Old 05-09-2011, 12:32 PM
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While this may be true to a point (only because of the society we live in, the big wigs at the top, and those who enjoy finding fault with those questioning anything about vaccines), I don't agree that the vaccine safety movement should be set back at all because of the work of Wakefield, whether people hate him or not.  There was and always will be a question mark over vaccine safety no matter who does the research, how the research is conducted, etc. If there wasn't any question at all about vaccine safety, would so many people be suffering severe reactions to them, and even worse? shake.gif

 

I don't make any conclusions off of one person's research. I look at both sides, study the facts about vaccines themselves, and then make my own conclusions about how I feel about their safety.  I would hope others do the same rather than making their conclusions based on one study in the past that they feel is flawed, turning their back on the vaccine safety movement entirely.

well I agree it shouldn't but it is every day..friends who don't know we don't vax have casually mentioned how this guy was a big liar and act as though this was the only negative thing ever said about vaxes, You might not make conclusions based on one person's work but most of the people who vax in this country (which means most people period) don't have that same attitude unfortunately.

 

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