Need help with my brother, who has a Phd and thinks he knows everything! - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 38 Old 07-21-2011, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My brother and SIL are due with their first baby soon and my mom wanted to go visit them with the baby is born but he is telling her that if she doesn't go get a booster shot for Pertussis that they don't want her coming. At first she was all ready to go get the shot and didn't even think about it......I suppose I should have just let her do it, but I had to open my big mouth....

 

All I did was show her the vaccine ingredients on the CDC website and that was practically enough to make her NOT want to have the vaccine....but I also showed her on the CDC website that the booster was not approved for people 65 and older (it also said that it was perfectly safe but not fully tested yet so it just isn't "approved" yet eyesroll.gif ) but then when she googled it last week, it said that the FDA (who we all know, if they approve it, it MUST be safe biglaugh.gif) all of a sudden decided that they approved it. 

 

So I also showed my mom that vaccines are culture in either human or animal tissue and that was another turn off for her. My mother has never been vax'ed in her life, my grandmother raised 10 kids(including my mom) and didn't have any of them vax'ed, not even a Tetanus shot for my uncle when he was 10 and needed stitches. 

 

My brother has a Phd in Physics and thinks that I am crazy for not vaxing my kids and thinks I have brainwashed my mother. Everytime I try to talk to him about it, he says I have to scientific study to prove my fears and that all my fears have been debunked (the word he used). 

 

He sent us this long email with a couple of websites but it's all from the CDC or this other website Vaccine.org or something like that. I didn't see any scientific research proving that vaccine ARE SAFE!! I don't know of any actual scientific research that has been done to prove that they are UNsafe either but for me it is just common sense. 

 

He also said that the amount of all the chemicals and preservatives in these vaccines are so minute that our body just gets rid of it all. And he also sent me another link to a website saying that there is more aluminum in breastmilk and formula that in the vaccines that a child would get by the time they are 6 mos. old or something like that. 

 

Anyways, can someone help me with something "scientific" that I could show him. He is being so closed minded!! He is saying that we are causing all the outbreaks and putting all the vax'ed people at risk. irked.gif And he also had to throw in for good measure my use of alcohol hand sanitizer and that it's the reason for all the super germs and that why can I use hand sanitizer but vaccines are not ok. 

 

Thanks for listening to me vent!! 

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#2 of 38 Old 07-21-2011, 03:09 PM
 
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My best advice is to stay out of it.  You aren't going to change his mind.  Just let it drop.  And you've given your mom the information - its up to her to make her own decision and manage her relationship with your brother.

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#3 of 38 Old 07-21-2011, 03:38 PM
 
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Well, don't you remember that semi-crazy state you're in with a newborn in which you're certain they're going to get pertussis and any number of other life threatening diseases?  I'd cut him a bit of slack.  I agree the shot could be dangerous for your mom, but obviously a newborn getting pertussis is dangerous as well.  (We don't vax either).  I guess there is no way to really know who is more at risk...newborn or grandma...so I'd probably stay out of it.  Good luck! 

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#4 of 38 Old 07-21-2011, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, I already told my mom that I am going to stay out of it but she keeps asking me what she should do......He sent her another email stating that if she didn't have the vaccine, that it was going to make them feel at least a little more compelled to get him vax'ed earlier than they wanted to....stating that they wanted to wait until the end of the recommended periods to give him shots(which totally stunned me because he just got done sending my mom a ton of links from government and the CDC raving about how safe vaccines are).... And he also said we would like for you to be able to see more than just pics of him. To me those are just rotten things to say.

 

I know what it's like to worry about a newborn catching everything under the sun, i've been thru it 3 times......but it's the part where he is trying to guilt her into it. 

 

Anyways, thanks for the input. smile.gif

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#5 of 38 Old 07-21-2011, 08:39 PM
 
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"It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants."

http://www.vaccineplace.com/support/brochure/adacelpatientbrochure.pdf (page 5)

Adacel (Tdap) advertisement

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#6 of 38 Old 07-21-2011, 11:26 PM
 
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^^ Yeah that. The vaccine does not, *at all*, prevent pertussis infection even when it works perfectly. It provides immunity to the toxin that causes the coughing, which is produced by the bactiera. So, it DOES make sense that you are more likely to catch pertussis from someone who is having raging coughing fits than from someone who feels fine, or only mildly sick and isn't coughing much if at all. But the disease is present in both people! The person who is having raging coughing fits will probably think twice before visiting a newborn (if they have any conscience) yet the person who feels fine... hugging and kissing on a newborn.. thats dangerous. I think vaccinating adults for pertussis is a terrible idea, because they won't KNOW they're sick, and might spread it to a baby! 


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#7 of 38 Old 07-22-2011, 04:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LiLStar View Post

^^ Yeah that. The vaccine does not, *at all*, prevent pertussis infection even when it works perfectly. It provides immunity to the toxin that causes the coughing, which is produced by the bactiera. So, it DOES make sense that you are more likely to catch pertussis from someone who is having raging coughing fits than from someone who feels fine, or only mildly sick and isn't coughing much if at all. But the disease is present in both people! The person who is having raging coughing fits will probably think twice before visiting a newborn (if they have any conscience) yet the person who feels fine... hugging and kissing on a newborn.. thats dangerous. I think vaccinating adults for pertussis is a terrible idea, because they won't KNOW they're sick, and might spread it to a baby! 


and i think thats how it is getting spread to infants.   An adult friend of mine got the Tdap and within a week, he had a "cold"...i told him it was most likely the pertussis component coming out and to stay away from infants as he can spread it unknowingly. 

 

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#8 of 38 Old 07-22-2011, 12:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LiLStar View Post

^^ Yeah that. The vaccine does not, *at all*, prevent pertussis infection even when it works perfectly. It provides immunity to the toxin that causes the coughing, which is produced by the bactiera. So, it DOES make sense that you are more likely to catch pertussis from someone who is having raging coughing fits than from someone who feels fine, or only mildly sick and isn't coughing much if at all. But the disease is present in both people! The person who is having raging coughing fits will probably think twice before visiting a newborn (if they have any conscience) yet the person who feels fine... hugging and kissing on a newborn.. thats dangerous. I think vaccinating adults for pertussis is a terrible idea, because they won't KNOW they're sick, and might spread it to a baby! 

 

EXACTLY.

 

Not that I would ask anyone their vaccination status (because I tend to stay out of people's health business in real life) but I'd MUCH rather someone visiting my baby NOT be vaccinated for pertussis. And I can guarantee I've done a lot more research on pertussis and the vaccine than your brother and SIL.
 

 

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#9 of 38 Old 07-22-2011, 02:33 PM
 
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Should we point out that is PhD is in physics?

 

 

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And he also had to throw in for good measure my use of alcohol hand sanitizer and that it's the reason for all the super germs and that why can I use hand sanitizer but vaccines are not ok.

 

 

Uhm... no.  Alcohol does not create superbugs.  Overuse of antibiotics does.  His ignorance is showing.

 

 

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#10 of 38 Old 07-22-2011, 02:43 PM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mama to 2 girls

 

And he also had to throw in for good measure my use of alcohol hand sanitizer and that it's the reason for all the super germs and that why can I use hand sanitizer but vaccines are not ok.

 

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Originally Posted by Weevil View Post

Should we point out that is PhD is in physics?

 

Uhm... no.  Alcohol does not create superbugs.  Overuse of antibiotics does.  His ignorance is showing.

 

 

 

lol. exactly. You might also want to point out that the alcohol hand sanitizer industry does not require legislation and Supreme Court decisions protecting them from any and all lawsuits in order to stay in business.

 

Also, I just reread your post, and his aluminum in formula comparison doesn't work. The vast majority of ingested aluminum passes right through the body. Not so with injected aluminum. I guess we can forgive him for that mistake though. That's not something that would be typically covered in physics classes. wink1.gif

 


 

 

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#12 of 38 Old 07-24-2011, 10:26 AM
 
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I'm not much help, but sending a hug and sympathy.  My brother's first child is due in two weeks, and he had my father call yesterday to tell us we cannot have our children near the baby until she is a year old (and fully immunized for pertussis.)  Do I know my family is wrong?  Yes.  But my brother had two doctors and a midwife put the fear of God in him.  And I know how scary it is when "authorities" do that.  So I told him it's his decision to make, that I love him and the baby, and left it at that.

 

It's terribly upsetting, and my husband is beyond angry.  But I had a feeling this would happen.  And after the first year, they'll get pregnant with another... my other brother and his wife will follow suit... we'll be barred from family get-togethers for a good five years.

 

My tears are done today. You have to let people make their own decision, though I understand your frustration. 

I haven't broken the news to my boys yet though.  They were so looking forward to seeing the baby.  :(


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#13 of 38 Old 07-24-2011, 11:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bygones75 View Post

It's terribly upsetting, and my husband is beyond angry.  But I had a feeling this would happen.  And after the first year, they'll get pregnant with another... my other brother and his wife will follow suit... we'll be barred from family get-togethers for a good five years.


The Tdap vaccine campaign is completely evil. It is tearing families apart.

 

Nobody in my family (except my husband, of course), knows that our kids are not vaccinated. So we have been able to avoid all possible drama and heartache.

 

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#14 of 38 Old 07-24-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:

 

Nobody in my family (except my husband, of course), knows that our kids are not vaccinated. So we have been able to avoid all possible drama and heartache.

 


You were so smart.  I open my mouth far too often.  If I could turn back the clock, no one in my family (besides DH) would be involved with major health decision with our kids.  I've received nothing but grief.

 


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#16 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 07:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bygones75 View Post

I'm not much help, but sending a hug and sympathy.  My brother's first child is due in two weeks, and he had my father call yesterday to tell us we cannot have our children near the baby until she is a year old (and fully immunized for pertussis.)  Do I know my family is wrong?  Yes.  But my brother had two doctors and a midwife put the fear of God in him.  And I know how scary it is when "authorities" do that.  So I told him it's his decision to make, that I love him and the baby, and left it at that.

 

It's terribly upsetting, and my husband is beyond angry.  But I had a feeling this would happen.  And after the first year, they'll get pregnant with another... my other brother and his wife will follow suit... we'll be barred from family get-togethers for a good five years.

 

My tears are done today. You have to let people make their own decision, though I understand your frustration. 

I haven't broken the news to my boys yet though.  They were so looking forward to seeing the baby.  :(



greensad.gif  That is awful...it also makes no sense!

 

Have you emailed them the stats (use CDC) on getting VPD's?  Most are really, really low.  Miniscule.  As for the ones that are not low - well, it then follows that the vaccine is not particularly effective  for that disease.

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#17 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 07:52 AM
 
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Yes, it's best to not share the info at all. I now feel it's best to lie to rabid family members. One of my sisters follows a sel/del schedule while the other not only vaccinates on schedule, but also added extra doses to be "safe" and enrolled her son in a trial for a new vaccine. By the time he was 15 months, he received an insane amount of shots, including 3 (!!!) MMRs (and he is the sickest kid I know, he's on antibiotics 10/12 months of the year, but she says it's due to daycare). Yes, she is a MD, but she has never practiced. She works in pharm research. That might be handy for some things (aka finding an antibiotic that's ok with breastfeeding), but she has done no research in vaccines, said I read a liar website when it comes to fetal cells used in the rubella/chickenpox/HepA/others, once she read said oh well still super cool benefit. So yeah she has done no research beyond what she was told in med school (shots are awesome, have no side effects, push them on everyone). So what do I do? I smile, lie and change the subject. DH's family lives far away from us too (my family is in Europe), and they had kids recently too and said only TDaP or you can't come close. They don't know what we do so they just assumed we are vaccinated and I leave it at that. We do even vaccinate but with literally rabid people there is no sense of reasoning. Even my somewhat critical SIL (she did a delayed schedule, but not selective at all) was like why wouldn't you get the DTaP it protects your baby I got it (she doesn't tell the others about our status). I explained to her how it doesn't stop transmission but she was like nope not what the doctor said. Oh well if the doctor says you have to eat 10 steaks a day, I guess she would. Shrug.

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#18 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 10:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bygones75 View Post

I open my mouth far too often.  If I could turn back the clock, no one in my family (besides DH) would be involved with major health decision with our kids.  I've received nothing but grief.

 


It's not too late to start lying, lol. Can you tell them your doctor finally talked some sense into you, and now you are vaccinating?

 

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#19 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 01:41 PM
 
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He's doing what he thinks is best for his child.  Respect that and move on.


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#20 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 05:53 PM
 
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I can't believe some of you are advocating lying about your children's vaccine status. 


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#21 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 06:29 PM
 
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I can't believe some of you are advocating lying about your children's vaccine status. 


.....because they are pretty much facing being abandoned by their families if they do not vax.greensad.gif

 

I am not in their position - as such I am not judging them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#22 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 06:32 PM
 
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He's doing what he thinks is best for his child.  Respect that and move on.



I think family is worth fighting for and I would try to reason with him.

 

Obviously if he won't listen to reason he won't listen to reason but it is worth trying.

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#23 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 06:55 PM
 
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I can't believe some of you are advocating lying about your children's vaccine status. 



What's the problem with that if it makes family life easier? Nobody advocated for a child that has pertussis to drop by family members. Or any other communicable disease for that matter. If you have a choice between being ostracized from your family or bending the truth, you would advocate being kicked out of the family for totally crazy reasons? Not a single person here would expose another child with any disease. However people i know in my husband's family will come over to a newborn while coughing like a chain smoker saying hey I got the TDaP vaccine so it's safe! Yeah!  - I don't see the issue at all.

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#24 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 06:56 PM
 
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They could also just wait until the baby is vaccinated, rather than lie.  If you all think the brother is unreasonable now, imagine his reaction if he knew he was lied to. 


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#25 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 06:57 PM
 
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I think family is worth fighting for and I would try to reason with him.

 

Obviously if he won't listen to reason he won't listen to reason but it is worth trying.


 

The OP's brother is trying to "reason" with her and it doesn't seem to be going well.  Why should the reverse be any different?  No matter what I decide to do with regard to my children and vaccines, I get pissed when anyone butts their nose in.  It's my child, not theirs.  If the situation was reversed that's what all the replies on this post would be too.  She either need to respect her brother and what he decides to do with his children or butt out, no matter how wrong she thinks his choices are.


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#26 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 07:26 PM
 
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I don't think the issue was to wait 6 months until the infant received 3 doses. I thought the brother never wants to have them around if not vaccinated, and that makes no sense.

In my case I just keep getting pestered, nobody would exclude me, it is just one sister and nobody else is taking offense. And we do vaccinate, just slowly and selectively, and the particular offended person has an overvaccinated child (yes, overvaccinated as he received way more than the recommended doses). I don't see trouble with not being truthful there.

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The OP's brother is trying to "reason" with her and it doesn't seem to be going well.    She either need to respect her brother and what he decides to do with his children or butt out, no matter how wrong she thinks his choices are.


If my sister were trying to exclude me from her life over something like this (vax or non vax) you can bet your booty I would say something.  Why on earth not?  As stated earlier (and yes, I am repeating myself) family is worth fighting for.  Ultimately the decision to exclude someone rests with the excluder, but that does not mean it isn't worth trying.

 

FWIW, I think both vaxxing and not vaxxing can be reasonable decisions; what is unreasonable (and it is in this context that I used the word "reason") is to exclude someone for not thinking like you or coming to the same conclusions as you.

 

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#28 of 38 Old 07-26-2011, 08:01 PM
 
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I see your point, but it's not in me.  They wouldn't believe it anyway, especially because they know I feel so strongly on it.  I do wish that I had kept all our health choices private though... it's not a mistake I'll make again.
 

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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Quote:


It's not too late to start lying, lol. Can you tell them your doctor finally talked some sense into you, and now you are vaccinating?

 



 


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#30 of 38 Old 07-30-2011, 07:01 AM
 
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Your brother is being unreasonable but that's his right as a parent. It's NOT his right to try and control other people's medical decisions. He has every right to say that unvaccinated people can't see his new baby. I suppose they'll be completely quarantining themselves at home until the baby is much older? After all, the world is full of vaccine-free adults and children. Or is it just the people he knows to be vaccine-free that scare him?

 

The fact that he's trying to guilt your mother into getting vaccinated by threatening to give the newborn the vaccine earlier than usual is absolutely disgusting to me. I think you should stay out of it, but I also think you should buy your mother a copy of Emotional Blackmail. This behavior is not okay.

 

I don't advocate lying but I do know my family's medical decisions are 100% private and if a relative asked us about our vaccine status I'd tell them to mind their own business and the ball would then be in their court. It's not my job to violate my family's privacy just because they feel entitled to the information. shrug.gif

 

If someone told me that we weren't welcome to visit unless we took powerful pharmaceutical drugs to assuage their irrational, uninformed fears, I'd regretfully send my well wishes from a distance. It's absolutely their right to decide who sees their baby, but it's also absolutely our right to keep our medical choices private. They're simply not open for debate or discussion.


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When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty. --George Bernard Shaw

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