Alone at Christmas... non-vaxing and a "menace" - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 69 Old 12-09-2011, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So my family has always opposed us since we stopped vaxing (my 6 year old had terrible reactions and now is mildly autistic; we stopped vaxing him at 6 months and my second son has never been vaccinated.)  But I was the first to have children.  Now that my brother has a child, and has decided that we are dangerous, we've been cut off from my family.  My husband is a pilot and rarely around.  My inlaws are fair about our choices, but they live far away.  We moved to this area because my mother said she would help me with the kids.  That obviously no longer holds true.

 

I'm learning that sticking to my guns in terms of my children is an empowering thing. I won't regret that.  But I have to admit being by myself during the holidays is hard.  DH is at a new job; he won't hold T-day or Christmas off for many years.  My brother recently told me that I'd destroyed our family with my decision to not vaccinate; that until I do so, none of them can accept me or my children.  I've always been the pleaser in my family; when he confronts me with "scientific" facts that I know to not be true, I stay silent.  It's habit.  I have 2000 hours logged in pediatric immunology and vaccine theory, so I am far from ignorant.  But no one wants to hear me so I don't bother.

 

This is where I am.  They will not change.  So I need to learn to deal with that.  But I am incredibly depressed.  This is the first time in my life I will be alone for the holidays.  My boys do not understand what's going on.  I don't even know how to lie to protect their feelings.  It's strange, because all my close friends (90% vaccinate fully) understood our decision and didn't give me a hard time in the least.  But my own blood have disowned me.

 

I don't want this to be a pity post, but I'm wondering if there are others on this board who have lost their families because of not vaxing.  I could use a little pick me up, I admit.  This is a lonely place to be.

 

 

 

 

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#2 of 69 Old 12-09-2011, 08:00 PM
 
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Shame on them. I am so, so sorry this is happening to you. You know, this is the price you have to pay to keep your children healthy. We can't choose our families, and often, they are the ones who disappoint us the most. Someday, I believe the truth will come out about how dangerous vaccines really are. Until then, we face incredible persecution for our beliefs. I'm so glad you are able to stay strong through all of this, and I hope you can find the strength to endure.

 

 

Please take comfort in the fact that you are a wonderful mother!

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#3 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 01:50 PM
 
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I am sure you can make the holidays the best experience for your boys and yourself and without being under pressure to please your family. Wishing you wonderful time :)

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#4 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much.  Your response really made me feel better today.  Hugs.


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#5 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much.  And you were smart not to share your decision. Something I've learned moving forward.

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#6 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 03:35 PM
 
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Ugh and yet if they were so secure in their decision to vax why would they be afraid of your kids?

 

My SIL is a psychopath when it comes to anything I believe...not-vaxing, "extended" Bfing (or even bfing past 6 months), and especially when it comes to circ. She challenges me on every single one every single time I see her which is very rare now.

 

She even tried to get DH to take me to court to get my medical custody taken away so he could force vax her (she obvs has no clue about the laws or anything b/c DH could take her without any of that and get it done) but of course he is 100% on the same page as me.

 

She circ'ed her son so everytime I post anything against circ or say we will leave our future sons intact she flips out..

 

She thinks every article I post or mention or anything is a direct attack on her and her "parenting choices"


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#7 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 05:54 PM
 
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That is just ridiculous. Sadly, they probably won't change their minds any more than you will change yours. It is neither logical nor rational. Ask your brother if he thinks everyone else who comes in contact with his child is fully vaccinated. Care takers, Grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbours, etc. Of course, they are not. That is the reality that many of these "morons" fail to acknowledge. They refuse to let their kids be around other kids who are not vaccinated, but don't realize that most adults have either not had most of these vaccines, or they are not up to date ont he ones they had as children. And of course, like a PP said, isn't their fully vaccinated child supposed to be protected anyways??? This is just wrong. If that was my family, I'd be up one side of them and down the other. I would let them have it, then tell them to stay out of MY life until they develop some common sense. Heck, I'm livid just reading your post! Stand your ground. You don't need people like that in your life. It's sad, and I know that they are family, but THEY made the decision to be totally irrational, and you don't need anyone judging you for your choices regarding YOUR children. 

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas without them!

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#8 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 06:38 PM
 
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That's nuts, I'm sorry.  Shouldn't all their vaccinations cancel out your kids lack of vaccinations?  Obviously their vaccinations do not mean anything.

 

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#9 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 09:18 PM
 
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I'm sorry for the situation you're in. And I totally understand how sad this whole thing is since you feel like you AND your kids are going to be alone. What's up with people being afraid of non vaxed kids? Aren't shots supposed to protect? If they don't, why vax? I've heard about so many non vaxed children getting kicked out of playgroups recently. Stay strong, the health of your children is important. Try and make the best of it. Maybe create a new Christmas tradition? I'm sending hugs... hug2.gif

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#10 of 69 Old 12-10-2011, 09:42 PM
 
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Ok He seems to think vaccinating his children is pointless because it makes them susceptible to every germ.. that would be HIS choice to stay home and isolate his kids.. but for your mom to decide you're not allowed to come over?? That's messed up and I'm really sorry to hear they are so ignorant and hurtful. You would think  your mom would be smarter and support her child. If ANYTHING you should be worried his vaxed shedding kids would get you AND anyone who's been vaxed sick. Not the other way around.  This guy is not on his right rocker. Is your WHOLE family saying this? Could you just lie? If it was just him I would say ok better stay home because I'M going!

 

My SIL and actually MIL are VERY pro vax. I acually haven't heard lately how dd is going to get polio in awhile. Maybe MIL did some research. Maybe she read some of my FB posts. But they were vehemently pro. I'm actually a little worried that they did something behind my back b/c MIL had the nerve to cut my dd hair when she last saw her! But no one's ever banned me from their house. As a matter of fact their vaccinated behinds are ALWAYS sick. They are ALWAYS in the ER for pnemonia. DD had a single cold year one and one year 2 but this month been bad (3). I would spend more time with them if they weren't always so sick. And they never corralate their boosters with the pnemonias they come down with every year. It's ALWAYS right after they get seriously ill.

 

 

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#11 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 03:01 AM
 
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I think he's nuts. From the science point of view, your kids are in danger from his kids.

 

Some people are bullies - if it wasn't the vax issue, he'd find something else to bully you with. It's a pity your mom cowered to him. If it's any consolation, at least you've seen his true colors - as horrible as it may sound, maybe you don't need that kind of family around you. It's a huge loss, but you can't make him normal and nice.

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#12 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 06:05 AM
 
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it's amazing to me that the people who are so "pro science" are also the most ignorant.  I'm sorry that this happened with your family, I am lucky that my family supports my choice (actually encourages it) but I have lost friendships that I thought were important to me.  Live and learn.

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#13 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 06:13 AM
 
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it's amazing to me that the people who are so "pro science" are also the most ignorant.  I'm sorry that this happened with your family, I am lucky that my family supports my choice (actually encourages it) but I have lost friendships that I thought were important to me.  Live and learn.

 

I don't think science is the issue here. His bullying just coincides with what most of society supports right now, and that gives him a great platform and justification to be nasty.

 

He's not pro-science because he does not even understand the underlying science. At all. Science-wise, he's useless.

 

If he lived in a different time and society, he'd probably be all "spare the rod, spoil the child", or "let's witch hunt", or something to that effect. Does not have to be scientific, he's just looking for some crowd-accepted dogma.
 

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#14 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 06:16 AM
 
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Oh, man. That's terrible. I can't believe your mom went for this. Does she agree or is he making the decisions? What I don't get about people like this is that vaccines can protect against what, 10-12 diseases (some not easily transmitted), but there are SO many other things they could get- 5th's disease, TB, other strains of the flu, etc. If you're that scared of them catching a VPD, are you that scared of everything else? And your 6 month old isn't old enough to be fully vaxed anyway; is your brother avoiding all kids until they are done getting their vaccines? Does he have every vaccine on the schedule? I want to scream at him for you!

 

Celebrate the holidays with your husband when he IS off work, and then do something special with your kids on the actual day. I know this hurts, and you're being terribly mistreated. I am really sorry.

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#15 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 11:40 AM
 
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Is your DH's job based where your are living, or could you move closer to inlaws?


I'm really sorry that your mother is allowing your brother to manipulate the entire family. What he is doing is wrong. Honestly, Id be tempted to just lie in this case. He isnt going to budge, you love your family, they arent abusive towards you or your children, and the ONLY thing that is keeping you seperated is an a**hole who is controlling your life because he thinks he knows it all. Id be tempted to tell him that you have reconsidered your stance and that you have decided that family is more important than your stance on vaccinations. I dont typically advocate lying, but in this situation your brother is being ridiculous and your entire family is just going along blindly with what he says is "safe" for his kids.
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#16 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 12:00 PM
 
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Wow I actually just came on here to post myself about a similar situation we are having with DD and my family.  I have never posted before, just read but after a "family meeting" we had today I really felt the need to post.  My SIL is newly pregnant so they no longer feel its safe to be around my nonvaxed DD.  Her mother lost a pregnancy to rubella 30 yrs ago in Portugal so she is very afraid she will catch rubella from DD.  They want to cut us out of their life completely during her pregancy and while the baby is a newborn.  I have never heard of something like this happening and it is so hurtful.  Feel like they think DD is a walking plague or something!!  She is very healthy and only gets an occasional cold and I am still breastfeeding her at 22 mos. 

 

Obviously with Christmas being right around the corner this couldn't happen at a worse time.  It's only me and my brother so my parents are torn.  They don't want to take sides but I just can't believe that a family could split up over this.  DH family is in another state and we were just there for Thanksgiving so won't be flying back there for Christmas.  Really have no idea what is going to happen since they won't be in the same room with DD.  We tried to talk it out with my brother this morning but he is completely closed minded and was screaming at me within 5 minutes.  I couldn't even get a word in and he pretty much kicked us out of his house. Think he feels like because we choose not to vax that all diseases are going to come back.  He is just so angry.

 

I am confident in our decision to not vax but when things like this happen it makes me start to question our choices.  Thats why I always come on this forum to read about other mothers who have similar beliefs since it's so hard not really having anyone around who understands.  I honestly believe they are being completely extreme in their decision and seems like we should be able to come to some sort of middle ground but after this mornings conversation I don't think that is going to happen.  I know DD is not the only other nonvaxed child around but they are more then willing to go about living their life and doing everything else EXCEPT see DD.

 

Not trying to steal from OP but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and was hoping to get some support myself because feeling very depressed today.

 

 

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#17 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 01:18 PM
 
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Quote:
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Some people are bullies - if it wasn't the vax issue, he'd find something else to bully you with. It's a pity your mom cowered to him. If it's any consolation, at least you've seen his true colors - as horrible as it may sound, maybe you don't need that kind of family around you. It's a huge loss, but you can't make him normal and nice.


This is what I was thinking.

 

Is it really a vaccination issue or is he just  annoyed he cannot control you/ you are doing something different than him?

 

I bet if it were not vaccination, it would be something else.

 

Are you open to quietly inviting a family member over for cookie decorating or some such thing?  Not your brother (obviously) but someone else?  You will never know their responses unless you try.  

 

If reaching out to family fails at this point in time,  keep yourself busy others ways.  Friends, community events, volunteering.  I know it is not the same - but staying busy may help.

 

I am so sorry you are dealing with this.  hug2.gif

 

 

 

 

 

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#18 of 69 Old 12-11-2011, 02:44 PM
 
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Grace's mom that is insane!


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#19 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Everyone, thank you so, so much.  This forum is not only a wealth of information, but a really necessary support group.  It has given me strength many times, particularly right now.  Just trying to respond to everyone's kind and helpful words...

Yes.  If vaccines supposedly protect one's child, why are they worried about mine??  *shrug*  He has said repeatedly that "the topic is not up for discussion".  What he means is, that I may not discuss it.  But they all feel very free to discuss how my decision goes against an entire medical community.  I hear that phrase so often.  I want to point out that Thomas' developmental ped is one of the top in the U.S., and he agrees with us wholeheartedly.  But... that's not up for discussion. 

 

I know what you mean about your SIL, sosurreal, that she thinks everything is an attack.  Really, it's all about fear.  And the more fearful and ignorant someone is, the more irrational they become.  My husband, who never says a bad word about anyone, got off the phone with Chris and said he was delusional.  Chris (brother) had called Ry (my hubby) and screamed at him in the cockpit over this mess.  Ryan was sitting next to his captain and couldn't respond, so he had to sit there and be blasted.  And then he had to fly a plane full of people around.  Seriously, that's insane. 

 

Part of me wants to just to open up and let them have it.  I did with with my mom... the first time in my life I did.  It's new for me to open my mouth with them, but I'm working on it. Chris is very entitled and not used to having anyone say no to him, and he can be very scary.  But that argument will eventually come.

 

I did tell my mom that no matter what her opinion was, she should have stayed out of it, rather than picking sides.  But the dynamic where Chris is the favored child and always right was created long ago.  Chris is so upset that I didn't vaccinate, that SHE is a wreck.  She told me I had to vaccinate the boys so it was easier for Chris to see them.  Once someone says something like that, you know they're a lost cause.

 

The point made that if it wasn't this issue, he'd bully me over something else?  True.  That's why everyone is so upset.  Because I said NO to something Chris wanted.  That never happens.  I may be a pushover but I'll be damned before someone else forces me to vax my children because it incoveniences them!!

 

Adaline's mama: Ryan works in Vegas.  We're in NY.  Originally he was going to keep commuting; I have a really wonderful network of friends who care for us while he is away.  That's worth a lot.  But all of this has definitely made us consider moving to another base.  Phoenix, probably, where he could hold a good schedule, we could support ourselves so much better financially, and THERE'S A PHILOSOPHICAL EXEMPTION.  Sorry, I had to shout that one.  ;)  NY is rough. 

 

We are going to celebrate with Ry and my inlaws on the 23rd.  On the 24th, the boys are in our church pageant, and my best friend and her kids are coming over.  Christmas morning, my parents are supposed to be dropping by... and my other brother too.  He doesn't agree with our not vaxing, but he tends to be more rational and his wife is a hippie.  :)  So this is nothing new to her. 

 

I'm becoming less sad that we're missing out on the big celebration on Christmas Eve.  We will create our own holiday our own way.  Thank you to all of you for helping empower me and feel better about this.  Huge hugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#20 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Grace's Mama:

 

I am so, so sorry. Gentle hugs and understanding coming from this way. 

 

We had the same situation, with my brother screaming any time we tried to discuss it.  Again, it's fear.  You cannot change that in him.  I would love if he (and my brother) would do a little reading, educate themselves a bit, and calm down.  Not up to us, but it does seem terribly unfair.

 

Yes, of course, their baby will be exposed to many other non-vaxed (or partially vaxed) people.  But your brother is taking this as a personal affront.  He shouldn't be, but like I said... fear.  It's a powerful thing. 

 

I know it's depressing.  I wish I could give you a big hug right now, hon!  Family can be wonderful and really terrible too, because we're affected so much by it.  But this is *your* daughter and *your* family you've created, with strength of heart, mind, and spirit.  That needs to be respected by all, and if they cannot respect it, then the distance your brother feels is necessary may be necessary for you too. 

 

I hope that we can support you through this.  I'll say a prayer for you today.

 

Suz

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#21 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 05:31 AM
 
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Holiday Hugs to you candle.gif..yes, at this point all you can do is start your own traditions with your family, and move on from there..i too, was in the same kind of boat with the sibling influence/favor...since i had distanced myself from their drama, it has only made our family stronger.  We can  only hope somewhere down the line they hopefully would learn to at least hear the other side, rather than shut them out continuously. It's good to stand up you your mother, it shows her you have grown up with your own opinions no one can bully you about, and i'm willing to bet she doesn't know how to handle this new "you".  And she's upset to think you are not going to cowtow to chris on this one and it is a frightening thought to her.  Does he bully your mother too, on other issues?(just curious)........    Just remember,  you are doing what right for your family, just as your brother thinks he is doing right for his, and the two of you clash when it comes to upbringing. If your mom is going to choose sides, she will be the one losing out in the long run, as will anyone else who chooses to be so ignorant about your decision.  

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#22 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 05:42 AM
 
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bygones - I'm so sorry you're in this position.  I'm glad you are making a holiday of it with the family, just not like you wanted it to be.  Do you think you could make an ally of other brother with hippie wife?  And, then maybe build a family tradition with a coalition of the kind.  I'm sorry your brother Chris is a bully.  The only thing I can think is to slowly exorcise him from your life.  I'm sorry some people are like that. 

 

grace's mama - Are you up for lieing?  You would have to be very convincing.  But, wait about a week and you could just tell them that you really feel for her concerns so you decided to just get one vax for rubella for dd.  New moms are, overall, very nervous creatures.  We all know people who didn't leave the house the first few months or insisted people wear masks around their child or that disinfect everything.  Be very careful.  You would have to lie to everybody.  It'd be pretty convincing if you told them you just got the one shot and would reconsider other shots as time went by. 

 

Good luck.  I'm sorry you guys are going through this. 


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#23 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 05:51 AM
 
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Here I am wondering if this baby will go to day care b/c that baby will be getting everything and it's mother there! This whole thing makes me sick!

 

Obviously it's nothing new to you and that totally stinks but remember you have your own family now. I was estranged from my family for 8years at one point...it can be lonely that is for sure...grouphug.gif


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#24 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

Does he bully your mother too, on other issues?(just curious)........   



Yes.  He is a bully in general, with everyone in the family.  He regularly bullies my dad about politics (they hold opposing views).  My dad is not an aggressive person, so Chris gets on his platform for hours, reveling in making my dad uncomfortable.  My mom entitles him to do so.

 

But the part that kills my husband is that Chris is REALLY against corporations.  My dad is a business guy, so Chris would lay into him for hours how terrible it is that corporations are so powerful in this county.  Um... so what does he think pharmaceutical companies are??!  

 

No one else sees the hypocrisy.

 


Suz, mommy to 2 chess-playing, lightsaber-wielding boys

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#25 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post

Do you think you could make an ally of other brother with hippie wife? 

Whatever Chris does, Matt follows.  He's already told me they will also take some distance when they have kids.  The difference is, it won't come with a lot of grandstanding and screaming. 

 

Chris had said previously that maybe for some special occasions the kids could be in the same house as his daughter, but he reserved the right to terminate that at any time.  And that they couldn't "breathe on her."  I can't have him holding that over my kids' heads; they wouldn't understand why they got to see their cousin once and then never again if he changes his mind.   Right now, we're telling them that Maddy is little and can't be around big kids because of germs.  They haven't questioned it yet.  I'm hoping we move to Phoenix before it becomes an issue.  That's cowardly of me... but how do you explain to your kids that they're not vaccinated?  If they share it with other children, it could become a big issue. 

 

I wish it wasn't so complicated.


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#26 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post

Here I am wondering if this baby will go to day care b/c that baby will be getting everything and it's mother there! This whole thing makes me sick!

 

 

 


Actually both grandmothers watch the baby while the two of them work.  I'm assuming that means my mom won't be able to watch my boys while I work (I direct children's theatre part-time Jan-March).  I'm lining up sitters, but with the hour commute, this will be my last season.  The childcare expenses will be too much. 

 

Ryan always said the help from my mom would end once Chris had children... but I never imagined it would happen like this.

 

Thanks for listening to me spout, and for all the support.


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#27 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 03:53 PM
 
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Could you solve the problem by lying and telling them you have decided to start vaccinating again? You could tell them you read, "Autism's False Prophets," http://www.amazon.com/Autisms-False-Prophets-Science-Medicine/dp/023114637X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323733829&sr=8-1 and you've realized the error of your ways.

 

That won't help for this Christmas, but it should help for next Christmas, when both your kids have had time to "catch up" on the schedule.

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Regardless of the issue, letting anything come between family is selfish and immature and I would be soo pissed off if my brother treated me that way that I would speak my mind for sure (personally...don't know if that's best in your situation).  It sounds like you have some family/friends lined up for Christmas that will make it wonderful for your kids, good for you.  I absolutely do not breath a word of my kids vax status to anyone but a few select people that understand my alternative parenting style.  But one positive of you "coming out" so to speak, is now you know who your real family is.  People that love and accept you are your family, they don't have to be blood relatives. 

BeckyBird and sosurreal09 like this.

Christian SAHM & birth doula.
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#29 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 10:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Could you solve the problem by lying and telling them you have decided to start vaccinating again? You could tell them you read, "Autism's False Prophets," http://www.amazon.com/Autisms-False-Prophets-Science-Medicine/dp/023114637X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323733829&sr=8-1 and you've realized the error of your ways.

 

That won't help for this Christmas, but it should help for next Christmas, when both your kids have had time to "catch up" on the schedule.


Personally, I would not lie in this case. I definitely think that the best thing the OP could have done in the first place was not tell them (or anyone else) her kid's vax status, but to lie now and say she's changed her mind isn't a good idea IMO. What if her kids got chicken pox or another "VPD"? How do you explain that? I think it would further damage their relationship if they found out she knowingly "exposed" their children to her unvaccinated kids and lied about it. Besides, I wouldn't give that bully the satisfaction of thinking he was right.


Non-vaxing, vegetarian, green lovin' mama to two little divas.
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#30 of 69 Old 12-12-2011, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chloebelle View Post

What if her kids got chicken pox or another "VPD"? How do you explain that?


No vaccine is 100% effective, and many are a lot less effective.

 

 

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