Why so much mainstream hatred for non-vaxers? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-18-2012, 10:02 AM
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Like the bat-signal.

 

Assuming I'm actually around.  It doesn't summon me away from my kids or anything.  For that, you need to mention Unconditional Living and the magical "change your Rh factor" diet.  

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Old 02-18-2012, 10:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

Haha, I'm sorry, I just find this kinda funny. So if I ever wanna discuss something with you, I just need mention nazis and rhogam? Like the bat signal? smile.gif 
 

 



It is a bat signal!  Ever notice how many people who rarely post on these forums (not stik - she is a regular) come out of the woodwork whenever anyone says anything interesting? 

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post



It is a bat signal!  Ever notice how many people who rarely post on these forums (not stik - she is a regular) come out of the woodwork whenever anyone says anything interesting? 

 



Yes, people like to participate in interesting conversations.

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Old 02-18-2012, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

Ever notice how many people who rarely post on these forums (not stik - she is a regular) come out of the woodwork whenever anyone says anything interesting? 


That's not specific to this sub-forum.  People tend to only post to threads they find interesting. shrug.gif  For example, I generally have no interest in posting in the "I'm not vaccinating" forum because it doesn't apply to me.  But when I saw this thread in new posts, I thought it looked interesting so I read it and decided to chime in.   

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Old 02-18-2012, 11:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post



It is a bat signal!  Ever notice how many people who rarely post on these forums (not stik - she is a regular) come out of the woodwork whenever anyone says anything interesting? 

 



And there are those of us reading along as usual, knowing that Stik and WildKingdom will eventually say what we are thinking.

 

Yes, Kathy, you are ever-interesting, even without a bat signal.

 

Love always,

Buzzer B.

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Buzzer Beater View Post



And there are those of us reading along as usual, knowing that Stik and WildKingdom will eventually say what we are thinking.

 

Yes, Kathy, you are ever-interesting, even without a bat signal.

 

Love always,

Buzzer B.

 


I think it is more wooden spoons beating together than a bat signal…..mischievous.gif

 

Have a good afternoon,

 

K.

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

If you're referring to her ability to compare Nazi DEATH camps to vaccine Injuries/death... Honestly age shouldn't matter.  I'm 31 and when I was 10 my grandfather showed me pictures of US forces carrying limp emaciated bodies from mounds on the snow into the back of their trucks.  Not all of them were dead.  If you honestly can make a parallel between that kind of Evil, you need to reevaluate your belief system.

 



 


I'm referring to her supposedly having a father who was born in the 30s and presumably having children young enough that she is actively refusing to vaccinate them.

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:45 PM
 
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I'm referring to her supposedly having a father who was born in the 30s and presumably having children young enough that she is actively refusing to vaccinate them.

 



??

 

I have/had parents born in the 20's and I have a less than 2 year old.

 

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 12:53 PM
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Being a parent of young children is not a requirement of participants on this board.  You don't have to be a parent at all.  

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Old 02-18-2012, 01:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I think it is more wooden spoons beating together than a bat signal…..mischievous.gif

 

Oooh, I forgot about that place. I wonder though if this place is radical or active enough anymore to keep them that interested. 

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 01:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lasciate View Post


I'm referring to her supposedly having a father who was born in the 30s and presumably having children young enough that she is actively refusing to vaccinate them.

 


I was wondering why on earth you would ask my age.

My father was not born in the 30's. He was born in the 20's.

And, yes, I have children young enough that I am actively refusing to further vaccinate them.

From my last 2 years' experience, I expect that I will have to actively refuse vaccines for my children through their elementary school, middle school, AND high school years.
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

Oooh, I forgot about that place. I wonder though if this place is radical or active enough anymore to keep them that interested. 

 


I don't rightly know.  I do think we can be radical <grin> but MDC isn't all that active…..

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 03:37 PM
 
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slsmommy - yes, i think it would be good if everyone could feel they had informed consent and feel at peace with the decisions they make (as parents and in general).  I guess i have had some big humility lessons in my journey as a parent - for example i was VERY scathing about those who formula fed...right up until my thyroid went crazy and my supply vanished when i had a 7 month old babe to feed!  There are many, many other examples.  My eldest especially is just a walking lesson in humility!  LOL.  Anyway, i really don't mind what other people do, i generally find when you scratch the surface even when people are doing quite amazingly different things to those i'm doing, they're doing them for the same/very similar reasons.  I'm not that crunchy by MDC standards but certainly abnormal by mainstream standards and i find that though it is tempting to judge some of the things those around me do, it's less lonely if i remind myself that most of the parents, most of the time, are muddling through, powered by love and armed with determination, just like i am.  Trying to be thoughtful and not reactive is where i am in my own journey (and most of the time i don't do great at it!).

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Old 02-18-2012, 03:47 PM
 
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Got it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasciate View Post


I'm referring to her supposedly having a father who was born in the 30s and presumably having children young enough that she is actively refusing to vaccinate them.

 



 

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Old 02-18-2012, 03:55 PM
 
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FWIW my late mother was born in 1937 and i'm only 31 and have little kiddies :D

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Old 02-18-2012, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hum... this thread has raised some other questions for me. I guess I'll start a new thread in a bit, in the main vax forum, as I would like many different perspectives. no need for bat signals i hope??

 

btw, whats this wooden spoons beating together thing??

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Old 02-18-2012, 07:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

hum... this thread has raised some other questions for me. I guess I'll start a new thread in a bit, in the main vax forum, as I would like many different perspectives. no need for bat signals i hope??

 

btw, whats this wooden spoons beating together thing??



A different website.  Will pm you.

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Old 02-18-2012, 07:54 PM
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It has long been a violation of the UA to talk about other websites on MDC.  There are other websites that have no such rules.

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Old 02-18-2012, 08:17 PM
 
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Fourms with less rules than MDC... I am intregued!


be good family...

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Old 02-18-2012, 09:58 PM
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Because not vaccinating means that everyone else's children are now more at risk because you decided not to follow proper medical advice.

 

Seriously, you people who don't vaccinate aren't fit to be mothers. It's child abuse plain and simple. And not just your child but if your child gets sick potentially everyone else's child that comes into contact.

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Old 02-18-2012, 10:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LucyLoretta View Post

Because not vaccinating means that everyone else's children are now more at risk because you decided not to follow proper medical advice.

 

Seriously, you people who don't vaccinate aren't fit to be mothers. It's child abuse plain and simple. And not just your child but if your child gets sick potentially everyone else's child that comes into contact.



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Old 02-18-2012, 10:13 PM
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Well you can sit there banging your head against the wall but why should my kids be more at risk because you refused to vaccinate your children. It's not fair and you are risking everyone else's health because of made up nonsense about autism and conspiracy theories about pharmacuetical companies.

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Old 02-18-2012, 10:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LucyLoretta View Post

Well you can sit there banging your head against the wall but why should my kids be more at risk because you refused to vaccinate your children. It's not fair and you are risking everyone else's health because of made up nonsense about autism and conspiracy theories about pharmacuetical companies.



I bang my head against the wall because you are woefully uninformed about why people decide not to vaccinate their children.

 

You came here to spew hateful comments to total strangers, thus proving the question posed in the OP.

 

You don't know what my reasons are for not vaccinating, and you don't care, because you assume you know.  You don't.

 

You just highlighted your own ignorance and lack of education on the subject.  


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Old 02-18-2012, 10:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LucyLoretta View Post

Well you can sit there banging your head against the wall but why should my kids be more at risk because you refused to vaccinate your children. It's not fair and you are risking everyone else's health because of made up nonsense about autism and conspiracy theories about pharmacuetical companies.

 

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Old 02-18-2012, 11:01 PM
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Well I just am completely shocked that there is a forum full of mothers who care more about rebelling against proper medical advice, than they are about their children not getting easily preventable diseases. So if it seemed like hateful comments it wasn't meant to be, I just don't see how anyone could do this to their children.

 

I would be interested in your reasons though as I am totally confused why anyone would do this

 

 

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Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post



I bang my head against the wall because you are woefully uninformed about why people decide not to vaccinate their children.

 

You came here to spew hateful comments to total strangers, thus proving the question posed in the OP.

 

You don't know what my reasons are for not vaccinating, and you don't care, because you assume you know.  You don't.

 

You just highlighted your own ignorance and lack of education on the subject.  



 

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Old 02-18-2012, 11:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LucyLoretta View Post

Seriously, you people who don't vaccinate aren't fit to be mothers. It's child abuse plain and simple. And not just your child but if your child gets sick potentially everyone else's child that comes into contact.

I select vax. No one could accuse me of any kind of neglect or abuse of my children. I have been an extremely conscientious parent.

Taking your child into the public realm at all means that you expose said child to germs, secondhand smoke, dust, dirt, pollen, environmental toxins and many other factors that you just can't control. But our kids can't live their lives in hermetically sealed boxes. That's no life.
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:09 PM
 
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Well I just am completely shocked that there is a forum full of mothers who care more about rebelling against proper medical advice, than they are about their children not getting easily preventable diseases. So if it seemed like hateful comments it wasn't meant to be, I just don't see how anyone could do this to their children.

 

I would be interested in your reasons though as I am totally confused why anyone would do this

 


If you're interested in reasons, please take the time to read the many posts available on this thread and others first, before spewing a load of ignorant, belligerent nonsense here. 


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Old 02-18-2012, 11:30 PM
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If you're interested in reasons, please take the time to read the many posts available on this thread and others first, before spewing a load of ignorant, belligerent nonsense here. 



Sadly all I can see here is ignorance not reason.

 

I did browse some threads here and was particularly appalled to read posts from mothers where their children have had whooping cough because of not being vaccinated..! It's a serious disease that's so easily preventable. That is what I mean by child abuse.

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Old 02-19-2012, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hahaha, you go to bed and look what happens...

 

LucyLoretta, I'm not really sure if you are a troll or not (and maybe even a non-vaxer yourself!), because your comments are PERFECT for the point of this thread. I think normally they would be removed since this is the I'm Not Vaccinating forum, but you really demonstrate my original point, especially the remarks about child abuse!

 

I'm not sure how much reading/time/effort you want to put into understanding why people make alternative vax decisions - I'm guessing not much, but I'll bite, for the sake of other people lurking/reading.

 

 

Some reasons some parents are interested in Selective/Delayed/Non Vaccination

 

Vax Ingredients – Some people have issues with some (or all!) ingredients used in making vaccines, I’m gonna quote Dr. Sears Book here since he’s got a nice list and a chapter about this.

 

Animal/Human Tissues:

 

Human Blood Proteins (albumin)

Human Lung Cells

Human Fetal Lung Cells

Human Cell Lines

Cow Serum (liquid part of blood)

Cow Heart-muscle Extract

Cow Tissue Extract

Monkey Kidney Cells

Guinea Pig Embryo Cells

Chicken Embryos

Chicken Kidney Cells

Chicken Eggs

 

Chemical Ingredients – really, you could have huge threads about each of these… Please use google if you are unaware of their toxicity/issues, I don’t have enough space here. Some are just miniscule amounts in vaccines, others are of sufficient quantity.

 

Aluminum

Mercury (still used in flu vax and trace amounts in some brands of DTaP/dT/DT)

Formaldehyde

Polysorbate 80 and 20

MSG

EDTA

2-Phenoxyethanol

Sodium Borate

Octoxynol

Sodium deoxycholate

 

Contaminations – we know about some, and us crazier tin hatters worry about contaminations we * don’t* know about

 

SV40 – google it

Flu vax - http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/18/health/18flu.html?_r=1

Rotateq and Rotarix – 2010 – found DNA from 2 porcine viruses, one of which causes wasting disease in baby pigs.

 

Anyone else got more to add?

 

Safety

 

Most of us are not satisfied with the research, or lack of, proving long term safety of vaccines, their possible role in autoimmune/other health issues. Also lacking research about the consequence of vaxing for a HANDFUL of diseases at the same time. There’s plenty of controversy still about Wakefield, I’m not going to go there, though that is an issue for some people.

It’s also worth pointing out that in vax studies, the placebo is not really placebo, it is another vax.

 

Some vaccines seem to be fast tracked on FDA approval without appropriate study – Gardasil

 

Some people feel the newer the vaccine, the less is known about it.

 

Who else would like to add?

 

Effectiveness

 

Some people have issue with the fact that some vaccines do not appear all that effective, as some vaccinated children still get sick.

 

Also, natural immunity is sometimes considered preferable instead of constant boosters required for life. And the length of protection is different for every vax, and also appears to really vary person to person.

 

Moral/Religious Issues

 

I’m not going to get into it because I don’t really understand it well, (I’m not religious), but some people feel that vaccines would interfere with God’s will or defile man’s body. (I think…. Please someone correct me if wrong!!!)

 

Some parents have issue with their newborn receiving Hep B, or later HPV, because they believe their child would be at low risk to these diseases, since most babies don’t have unprotected sex…. And maybe they feel the values they raised their child with would mean that their teen won’t be having sex with multiple partners/until marriage.

 

There plenty of ethics concerns as well, specifically where funding comes from and who is in power making decisions, and this is where people here say follow the money trail.  An example that came up here recently – google Lester Crawford.

 

Other ethics issues – there is a whole thread about GSK being fined in Argentina for conducting vax study in which illiterate parents/not the real guardian of the child were signing consent forms, and several babies died – although there’s still not tons of info about it, it is being investigated.

 

Some people dislike that children are being vaccinated to protect adults (why can't adults get their own vaccines?) Hep A is very little threat to children, often mild or symptomless, they are getting vaccinated to protect adults who do have more serious issues to Hep A infection. Rubella too - to protect pregnant women. Flu.

 

Others?

 

Other Viewpoints

 

Some people would just rather deal with the vpd and incur the risks there than incur risks they associate with vaccines.

Chicken pox – parents still had this natural themselves and aren’t afraid of it, they also prefer lifetime immunity. Some people feel the same way about Measles, Mumps, Rubella.

Some people feel that their level of health/nutrition/access to medical care would make it significantly less likely that their child would suffer from the worst of vpd consequences.

 

Low instances of vpd – I know you'll just shout that this is BECAUSE of vax, but some people feel that improved sanitation, health care, living conditions, nutrition, etc. lowered some vpds naturally and NOT the vaccine.

 

Some mothers consider themselves low risk for some vpd because they breastfeed their babies for years, their children aren’t in daycare, etc.

 

Some people have their favorite conspiracy theory too. That is a factor for some.

 

Contraindications/Allergies/Family Health

 

Some people have allergies to vax ingredients - eggs, or a parent does and suspects maybe their child might. Individuals with immune issues or living with immuno-suppressed people are often recommended to have caution or skip certain vaccines. 

 

REACTIONS

 

There are mothers here who have suffered, personally, or their children, with vaccine reactions. It is accepted that vaccines can cause severe reactions or death. (though the argument is about how often that is).

 

Some of your remarks about child abuse are really highly offensive to women who have severely reacted children, who have had to fight tooth and nail to get medical help, or anyone to listen to them, and have lost a lot of their hopes/future to get help for their kids.

 

 

Anyone else wanna chime in here??? This is as good as I can do for the moment. Sorry for typos. These reasons aren't all my personal reasons, just a list I could think of from what I've seen.

 

 

 

 

 

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Old 02-19-2012, 05:44 AM
 
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Quote:

You came here to spew hateful comments to total strangers, thus proving the question posed in the OP.

 

I'm not sure LucyLoretta's posts prove anything other than it's super easy to create an account on an online forum and start posting rude comments. Who knows who she is and what her agenda is.  I wonder if all the hateful comments on some of these articles and forums are from like the same ten people who have nothing better to do . Oh, and those that vaccinate have been accused of child abuse online as well.   It's really easy to say this kind of nonsense on the nameless faceless interwebz.  

 

I know some non-vaxers have faced actual discrimination in real life, but I think at least some of it might be self-inflicted.  Don't tell your friends and family your children's vax status.  Most of the posts I see where people are talking about being discriminated against it's because their friends and family are privy to their vax status. I didn't tell a soul that my children were not vaccinated for certain diseases or that we were off schedule for others because it was none of their business.  My ped agreed with all my decisions.  If he hadn't, I'd of found another. I guess for someone in a small town that might be difficult but I think in many places quite doable.  Avoiding the ped is always an option.  And as far as I know, most states have some kind of exemptions for school.  Really, most of the time IRL, vax status is not huge an issue. Are there rare cases of a news crew and an out of control nurse showing up at someone's house?  Sure.  Is it the norm? No. That's why it made the rounds on the internet. I think the interwebz can give a really skewed perception of reality. Good for some things though. It's a mixed bag.  

 

 

edited to fix typos 

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