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#1 of 16 Old 02-23-2012, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had just recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who vaccinates for most diseases but doesn't want the V vax. She had said to me that she would hapilly bring her child over for a chicken pox play date if the opportunity came along. Now while I want dd to have natural and hopefully lifelong imunity to most diseases I'm not sure I would be OK with bringing her to an infected play date. I respect that other parents do this but I probably can't. At least not now. I'm hoping to 'just get them' ... somewhere ... someday.

 

Which brings me to this question - what would be the max age for MMRV diseases for a child to get them 'safely'?

 

I know they're definitely more serious in adults, even teenagers. So where would the limit be? When should I start to panic? Because - quite frankly - if dd doesn't get them by that certain age (she is only 2 now) I would honestly rather find the bugs than have her get the vax.


At what age would you do titers and decide what the next step will be? What are your plans? Will you give the vax(es) at some point in case of no immunity?


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#2 of 16 Old 02-24-2012, 04:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer78 View Post

I had just recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who vaccinates for most diseases but doesn't want the V vax. She had said to me that she would hapilly bring her child over for a chicken pox play date if the opportunity came along. Now while I want dd to have natural and hopefully lifelong imunity to most diseases I'm not sure I would be OK with bringing her to an infected play date. I respect that other parents do this but I probably can't. At least not now. I'm hoping to 'just get them' ... somewhere ... someday.

 

Which brings me to this question - what would be the max age for MMRV diseases for a child to get them 'safely'?

 

I know they're definitely more serious in adults, even teenagers. So where would the limit be? When should I start to panic? Because - quite frankly - if dd doesn't get them by that certain age (she is only 2 now) I would honestly rather find the bugs than have her get the vax.


At what age would you do titers and decide what the next step will be? What are your plans? Will you give the vax(es) at some point in case of no immunity?



Unfortunately, chicken pox is becoming more and more scarce, and you wont be able to just "get them, somewhere, sometime"...my 3 teens are unvaxed and i didn't reach the panic point yet..doubt i ever will.  never had titers done, and will NOT vax due to "no immunity"...all were EBF, and are some of the healthiest teens i know of.   And theres no guarantee, esp now, the vaccine will work...i see too many reports of vaccinated kids coming down with the very disease that was supposed to be prevented thru vaccinating.   Of course, the mainstream media won't report that, they just report its all due to unvaxed kids.  

As far as the age to contract, my son had CP at 2yrs, and no problems, my other 3 got it as preschoolers too, in the 90's,  a very mild case at that...i've heard that between 4-8yrs old is optimal.  

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#3 of 16 Old 02-24-2012, 07:03 AM
 
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My 9 yr old has never had chicken pox.

 

I think it is scarcer as the vaccine somewhat works.  I wish CP were still floating around.  I am not worried about her getting it as a teen or adult - while I have heard it is not fun, I don't think it is dangerous for most of the population.

 

What I am concerned with is her getting CP or rubella while pregnant   In all probability if she gets pregnant it will be as an adult, and it will be her call as to whether or not to vaccinate for CP.  She can also have her titres checked.

 

Of course, she could be become pregnant a a teen, however vaccinating her against CP or rubella in case she becomes pregnant in her teens and before she has had time to consider the vaccines is not something I am willing to do.  

 

My hope is she gets to adulthood and decides for herself.  My real hope is she gets CP and can avoid having to make this kind of decision, but that seems unlikely.  

 

 

 

 

 

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#4 of 16 Old 02-24-2012, 08:06 AM
 
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I thought herd immunity didn't work and was just a myth?

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#5 of 16 Old 02-24-2012, 08:23 AM
 
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I thought herd immunity didn't work and was just a myth?



feeling feisty today?  mischievous.gif

 

My opinion is herd immunity works for some diseases, not for others and in some cases it is hard to tell how much a diseases decline is due to improved sanitation, nutrition, etc (not CP).  Moreover, even where herd immunity exists, there is the ethical question of whether it is Ok to ask newborns to assume a risk of a vaccine reaction for the good of the herd.  

 

Some non-vaxxer do not believe in herd immunity, but some do in some degrees - we are not all carbon clones of one another.  

 

 

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#6 of 16 Old 02-24-2012, 12:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post


feeling feisty today?  mischievous.gif

 


Actually no, it was a question, since I often read on here that herd immunity is totally bunk. Not to mention that vaxes don't work. And yet here is a thread here on the I'm Not Vaccinating forum speculating that CP isn't around as much because of the vax.

 

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#7 of 16 Old 02-25-2012, 04:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post


Actually no, it was a question, since I often read on here that herd immunity is totally bunk. Not to mention that vaxes don't work. And yet here is a thread here on the I'm Not Vaccinating forum speculating that CP isn't around as much because of the vax.

 



one persons opinion of something on here,  does not dictate the opinion of the whole group.    

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#8 of 16 Old 02-29-2012, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Unfortunately, chicken pox is becoming more and more scarce, and you wont be able to just "get them, somewhere, sometime"...my 3 teens are unvaxed and i didn't reach the panic point yet..doubt i ever will.  never had titers done, and will NOT vax due to "no immunity"...all were EBF, and are some of the healthiest teens i know of.   And theres no guarantee, esp now, the vaccine will work...i see too many reports of vaccinated kids coming down with the very disease that was supposed to be prevented thru vaccinating.   Of course, the mainstream media won't report that, they just report its all due to unvaxed kids.  

As far as the age to contract, my son had CP at 2yrs, and no problems, my other 3 got it as preschoolers too, in the 90's,  a very mild case at that...i've heard that between 4-8yrs old is optimal.  

 

Emmy526 - hmmm that's interesting I actually had no idea that CP is that much harder to come by now. What I do hear though is that vaxed kids come down with it. Is it possible the vaxed are more vulnerable to it? headscratch.gif I don't believe too much that the CP vax is effective long term and I know I would be hesitant if dd had to have it when older. I'm interested in finding out how other families have dealt with it. So 4-8 years old it is? Thanks! I'll be hoping it finds us by then or that we find it ourselves. thumb.gif I remember on our last doctor's visit (we don't go, dd is 2 and we only went twice - our first pedi fired us and I just wanted to see if a history will repeat itself and if not whether the new doc is worth keeping) that the doctor was trying to explain to me the risks of ever catching CP - hooooorrible side efects in children. Because I had just had a very lengthy conversation with him about why we don't and won't vax at this point (and probably never) I didn't feel like going back into details with him. It just wasn't worth my time. I did tell him though that I come from a generation (I hear often I look a lot younger) where everyone had it, including me and it was not a big deal and that I prefer a long lasting natural immunity. He did not like my answer. horrors.giforngbiggrin.gif

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

My 9 yr old has never had chicken pox.

 

I think it is scarcer as the vaccine somewhat works.  I wish CP were still floating around.  I am not worried about her getting it as a teen or adult - while I have heard it is not fun, I don't think it is dangerous for most of the population.

 

What I am concerned with is her getting CP or rubella while pregnant   In all probability if she gets pregnant it will be as an adult, and it will be her call as to whether or not to vaccinate for CP.  She can also have her titres checked.

 

Of course, she could be become pregnant a a teen, however vaccinating her against CP or rubella in case she becomes pregnant in her teens and before she has had time to consider the vaccines is not something I am willing to do.  

 

My hope is she gets to adulthood and decides for herself.  My real hope is she gets CP and can avoid having to make this kind of decision, but that seems unlikely.  

 

 

 

 

 


Kathumuggle - I don't understand the need to vax kids for rubella. If they have it as children they'll have natural, longer lasting immunity. I don't remember if I ever had rubella, we were vaxed for it regardless. I think they told me at the hospital after I gave birth to dd that I had low titers for rubella and was offered a vax that I politely refused. So I guess I've never contracted it and - surprise surprise - the vax I got as a child isn't lasting that long, at least not in my case. I got the vax when I was 12 or 13.  

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post


Actually no, it was a question, since I often read on here that herd immunity is totally bunk. Not to mention that vaxes don't work. And yet here is a thread here on the I'm Not Vaccinating forum speculating that CP isn't around as much because of the vax.

 


SSM, I actually don't really believe in herd imunity for every disease, every instance and every person. What I do know though is that I would not have dd vaxed for the 'good of the community'. No way, no thanks. Most adults aren't vaxed and it's no big deal (eventhough everybody freaks out when a child isn't vaxed since they are thought to spread diseases). If vaxes really 'worked', there wouldn't be outbreaks. No matter how many unvaxed ppl are around. Isn't that why we are supposed to vax in the first place? Vaccines often fail. Maybe there is another reason that CP virus isn't around much anymore? I have no clue. I didn't know CP is harder to get now since I've actually heard of instances of vaxed kids getting it.   

 


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#9 of 16 Old 02-29-2012, 02:22 PM
 
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I find it funny that both of my kids have caught CP from kids who came down with it who were vaxed.

Both times, years apart and in separate states.

The kids in my play group the last time just last year, half of them were vaxed and ended up getting a worse case of CP

(nothing serious, but about a hundred or so spots) and my daughter had a fever for day, 3 spots and that was that.

 

My son 5 years earlier had the same thing...

 

 

I know that anecdotal experience doesn't mean much to others, but I just find it strange. Vaxes aren't a guarantee.

 


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#10 of 16 Old 03-01-2012, 08:42 AM
 
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As someone who had CP as a young adult (early 20's) and (gasp) survived to tell the tale, I will not get this vaccine (well in all fairness I wont get any vaccine) for my DS who is now almost 4 or my new baby due next month. Once my children turn 18 they can decide for themselves. IMO many of the complications from CP are due to the inappropriate treatment advice that some patients seems to get (ie take tylenol/advil to lower the fever) BAD idea!!


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#11 of 16 Old 03-01-2012, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, ssun5 and Marnica! I'm rethinking this whole thing and may cave in to exposing dd intentionally. I'll give it a few years and then start really thinking.  

Marnica, I had no idea you're having another one. That's so exciting! Congrats!!! I agree, lowering temperatures is pretty much an automatic thing now - supported by many doctors - and is potentially  dangerous. At which point would you start lowering a temperature? I read Dr. Mendelsohn's book on this a while back and it all makes sense. I feel like I will follow his advice if/when needed eventhough it would completely contradict what most pedis would recommend.
 



 

 


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#12 of 16 Old 03-02-2012, 06:43 AM
 
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Thank you! it is exciting! I will usually not interfere with a fever unless my child is sooooooooo uncomfortable with it that he cannot sleep etc. If I do lower it is NEVER with tylenol. I use homeopathics to lower it and they work beautifully. I have only had to do this once or twice and that was because the fever was like 104 and he seemed so miserable. A few weeks ago he had a bug with a 102.5 fever (got up to 103 at one point) and I did nothing he wasn't uncomfortable and was sleeping well.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomer78 View Post

Thanks, ssun5 and Marnica! I'm rethinking this whole thing and may cave in to exposing dd intentionally. I'll give it a few years and then start really thinking.  

Marnica, I had no idea you're having another one. That's so exciting! Congrats!!! I agree, lowering temperatures is pretty much an automatic thing now - supported by many doctors - and is potentially  dangerous. At which point would you start lowering a temperature? I read Dr. Mendelsohn's book on this a while back and it all makes sense. I feel like I will follow his advice if/when needed eventhough it would completely contradict what most pedis would recommend.
 



 

 



 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#13 of 16 Old 03-02-2012, 09:07 AM
 
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I agree with Marnica....

  For CP last year, I gave her Vit C around the clock for two days and let the temp do its job. Never got to 103, and by the next day was at 99 and she told me CP are boring and can she please play already!

 

I normally let them have their temp unless they are too miserable and I watch if it gets above 103 (however, so far it has only happened once with one of my three)

 

I guess it makes me think about the vax situation all over again. If my kids keep on getting exposed by VAXED children and they May or May not work.. why risk it!

 

(some mothers were livid because they had gotten 2 or 3 shots against CP already and they STILL came down with it-of course apologizing to the play group, saying they were going to sue their doctors for "obviously NOT giving them the right shot". so on.....

boy was it interesting for me after they came back from 'said doctors to be told for the first time in their life that Vaxes don't always work.... nut.gif)

 

 

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#14 of 16 Old 03-02-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for assuring me mamas!

 

Ssun5, it really is interesting when vaxing parents shockingly find that vaxes really don't always work.

 

Marnica - can I ask what kind of homeopathics do you use to reduce fever? Illness specific or is there a general fever reducer? We've never gave any to dd but I would definitely try a natural alternative first over any alopathic medicine. DD has never had Tylenol or Motrin or so far and I'm planning on keeping it that way.


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#15 of 16 Old 03-03-2012, 02:54 AM
 
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I had CP when I was 13, and it was a bad week.  I felt crummy and was completely covered with pox.  My brothers, who were 10 and 7 at the time, both got it after me and recovered before me.  Even so, it shocked me to find out there was a vaccination for it when my daughters were little.  I absolutely hate that I was bullied into getting them vaccinated against this disease.  I was a very young mom and although I questioned vaccines from the beginning and argued with their ped at the time, I was told that they were mandatory for school and had no idea exemptions were even possible.  

 

CP was a rite of passage when I was a kid.  Not everyone got it, but many did, and although there were stories of people who'd had pox in crazy places or whatnot, I never heard of a single person getting seriously ill as a result of CP.  In fact, I had one of the worst cases I'd heard of.  Most of my friends had it younger than me, and I had bragging rights over how bad my case was.  Oh, and I'm not ancient- I'm in my mid thirties- this wasn't THAT long ago.  It really pisses me off that we're having normal childhood illnesses dramatized like this- the addition of the varicella vaccine to the schedule really makes me question the severity of all the other VPDs, and I resent the lack of trustworthy information out there about most of them.

 

Anyway, I guess my point was: I had it older.  Yes it was worse.  No, It wasn't a big deal.  No, I would not vax for it, regardless of the kid's age. HTH :)


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#16 of 16 Old 03-04-2012, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I had CP when I was 13, and it was a bad week.  I felt crummy and was completely covered with pox.  My brothers, who were 10 and 7 at the time, both got it after me and recovered before me.  Even so, it shocked me to find out there was a vaccination for it when my daughters were little.  I absolutely hate that I was bullied into getting them vaccinated against this disease.  I was a very young mom and although I questioned vaccines from the beginning and argued with their ped at the time, I was told that they were mandatory for school and had no idea exemptions were even possible.  

 

CP was a rite of passage when I was a kid.  Not everyone got it, but many did, and although there were stories of people who'd had pox in crazy places or whatnot, I never heard of a single person getting seriously ill as a result of CP.  In fact, I had one of the worst cases I'd heard of.  Most of my friends had it younger than me, and I had bragging rights over how bad my case was.  Oh, and I'm not ancient- I'm in my mid thirties- this wasn't THAT long ago.  It really pisses me off that we're having normal childhood illnesses dramatized like this- the addition of the varicella vaccine to the schedule really makes me question the severity of all the other VPDs, and I resent the lack of trustworthy information out there about most of them.

 

Anyway, I guess my point was: I had it older.  Yes it was worse.  No, It wasn't a big deal.  No, I would not vax for it, regardless of the kid's age. HTH :)



Jennyanydots: Oh I wouldn't even think for a second that you're ancient. hug2.gif orngbiggrin.gif I'm very close to your age and we all had CP, nobody even batted an eye over it, it was part of the childhood of my generation. I too have never heard from a pediatrician or the nurse that there are exemptions if you choose not to vax. All they had said is that my child won't be allowed in school if we don't vax. Funny thing though - when some of my friends ask me what are we going to do when dd is supposed to go to school and can not - I always tell them I may actually home school and if I don't we will use an exemption and explain it to them. They will then ask me a few months later - again - with the same questions. They do always say though that their doctor had told them that kids can't go to school w/o vaxes but don't bother to do their research. And some are actually people who aren't too excited about vaccines.

 


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