What made you initially decide to question vaccines? - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: what factors caused you to initially questions vaccines?
My child has a medical condition that precludes vaccination (does not include vaccine reactions) 0 0%
I believe my child had an adverse vaccine reaction 10 100.00%
Within my extended family, there are medical issues that I believe might make vaccines a bad idea for us 12 100.00%
I have a friend/friends who have a child that had an adverse reaction 7 77.78%
I am holistically minded - vaccines were never really on my radar 12 100.00%
I was fully expecting to vaccinate or never gave it much thought - when I saw or read something that made me think twice. 29 100.00%
I research all medical decision (short of an emergency) concerning my children - be it Vit. K., antibiotics or vaccines. 28 100.00%
Something happened ( incident or discussion) with a medical personnel that caused me to rethink things. 8 88.89%
other 13 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Poll for non vaxxers or those who are very selective about vaccinating…...

 

What initially caused you to question vaccines and  your countries vaccine program?

 

Emphasis on the initial reason - I know many of us now have further reasons winky.gif

 

 

 

 

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#2 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 09:10 AM
 
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Common sense.

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#3 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Want to expand, Miriam? smile.gif

 

 

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#4 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 10:38 AM
 
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I got a new puppy a few years before I had my own children. The breeder talked to me about not overloading shots in a single visit. Requested that Rabies be done on its own, with nothing else. Talked about the rise in doggie cancers and auto-immune issues. Cats are known to have injection site cancers.

 

So I spoke to my vet, who was also active in the breed I have. She agreed, although said it wasn't a common though in vet medicine.

 

So that's what started me down the vaccine question route. My dog is vaccinated every few years, but not yearly, and we do rabies on it's own visit. My kids are very delayed, with only certain ones making the cut.  I do not think it would have crossed my mind had it not been for the initial introduction with the dog.


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#5 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 11:39 AM
 
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I used to think that I would want an elective c/sec whenever I got pregnant. I thought gluten free was a silly trend. I thought non-vaxers were paranoid and I used to wish drs. would give out antibiotics quicker. Hahaha. Sheepish.gif

 

I think things really changed for me when I started researching and learning about birth and the seeing a lot of the problems with the mainstream hospital approach to childbirth. I ended up having doing UC. Later found out I have celiac. Now I have stopped vaxing DD although I don't know if I can say she will never get another. I am now constantly seeing lots of things that make me question the "medical system," historically and currently. My questioning vax was just an extension, after I already became aware there is a lot of other stuff mainstream medicine misses the mark on.

 

 

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#6 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 12:25 PM
 
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any years ago before I was married or had kids of my own,  a friend of a friend's 3 month old died 14 hrs after a round of vaccines. It was labeled SIDS. The parents always thought it was the vaccines (the DTAP to be exact because they only did a couple that visit). I always thought what a strange idea to blame vaccines, but it prompted me to start looking into the whole subject. What I discovered blew my mind and I knew by the time I was pregnant with my own, there would most likely be no vaccines for my kids.

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#7 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 12:48 PM
 
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(other) I knew some people who didn't vaccinate their children.  At first I thought they were crazy, but it made me look into the topic.  


Done with diapers!!

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#8 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 05:43 PM
 
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Noting that veterinary medicine was much more open about vaccination adverse reactions/events prompted my personal research of pediatric vaccines.

Here is just a sample from a very conservative medical organization, AVMA, openly discussing vaccination adverse reaction:

http://www.avma.org/issues/vaccination/vaccination.asp

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#9 of 47 Old 03-08-2012, 06:17 PM
 
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My cousin, who was an ER nurse in Boulder, CO. She talked to me during a family reunion when I was only 3 months preggo for ds#3, I will never forget... She walked up to me and said "you're not planning on vaccinating that baby are you?" As she pointed at my belly. That started an insane research ride, and I came to the conclusion when I was 9 months preggo, I wasn't going to vax this child in my belly or my other two any further.

 

Since then, I have never felt better about my decision. My boys are healthy, and happy. They go to public school, and they know they are unvax'ed compared to the other kids. Its been very rewarding, my 12 yr old will tell me stories of his friends getting sick, from this thing or that thing... and he will annouce that he's not sick because he's unvax'ed.... SWEET!!!  

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#10 of 47 Old 03-09-2012, 04:12 PM
 
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My children all had reactions to vaccines.

Each time, the pediatric nurse said it couldn't possibly be related to vaccines, because "vaccines don't do that."

Then the pediatrician would say, well, yes, it was a vaccine reaction--but it was one in a million, very very rare, etc.

By the third time, I realized that vaccine reactions are not one in a million, if we had three of them with three kids.

Then the nurse tried to insist that all pediatric vaccines--including the one in a multi-use vial that she was trying to talk me into--were thimerosal-free. At that point, I realized that I knew far more than most of the medical personnel we saw.
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#11 of 47 Old 03-09-2012, 08:01 PM
 
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I guess it started when I heard that my younger cousins were having to get a chicken pox vaccine for school.  I (a teenager at the time) thought that was pretty crazy since "everyone" got chicken pox.  Then when I had my daughter I was upset by the way the doctors were pretty much set on us following the schedule without even talking to us.  The fact that we even tried to ask questions (we never said we were not getting vaccines) made the doctors and nurses totally change the way we were treated.  Once, DH called the office to ask what brand of vaccine they used and if thimerosol was added.  When the nurse first got on the phone she was polite and happy. Once DH asked the first question, she became upset and tried to get off the phone quickly.  He barely got an answer.  I felt like we were supposed to just be mindless beings and they thought they needed to put us in our place when all we did was ask simple, harmless questions.  DH and I knew we needed to do the research ourselves since they weren't going to tell us anything but what they wanted us to think.  Of course, we left that doctor immediately...

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#12 of 47 Old 03-09-2012, 09:33 PM
 
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i had never heard of people vaxing until i got online and heard a lot of parents dont and learned why. a couple years later when i got jobs with people with developmental disabilities i had met some that were born normal but had adverse reactions causing seizures that caused brain damage.  it was really sad working with a beautiful 16 year old girl that will forever be developmentally a 18 month old.  how devastating for her family it was

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#13 of 47 Old 03-10-2012, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If I really reach back I can see that my dis-ease with vaccines started with the birth of my first.  It was a difficult birth (for him) - meconium staining, IV antibiotics, a short stay in the NICU…and I believe a lot of it was caused by medical mismanagement.  It was my very first glimpse into "hey - doctors are not always right."  It changed how I view doctors and medical professionals - from "I will just do what you say"  to "I value what you say.  I will listen to you opinion, take it home, think about it, crunch some numbers, and get back to you."  Emergencies excluded, of course.  

 

Despite the above, my eldest did receive about half his vaccines before I had a change of heart.  2 things came to light in the first year of his life that made me change my mind.

 

1.  I learned, through mainstream media, that they had a safer vaccine than DPT  (namely DaPT) that they did not use because they wanted to use up the DPT vaccines and DPT was cheaper.  

 

2.  My son had the MMR shot.  When he was born kids received one MMR shot.  This changed sometime in his first year.  At his first year appointment, I was told I would haver to bring my child back in for another MMR shot.  I asked why.  Well, it turns out they now thought one MMR was not good enough, and 2 would provide better coverage.  I asked what the effectiveness rate was of the first shot and was told it was over 90%.  So, I was being asked to have my child assume a small but real risk for what??

-a disease that often was not that dangerous

-a disease that barely exists in Canada, and he had a 90% chance of being covered for?

I decided 90% was good enough for this disease and told the public health nurse "no."

 

It was the beginning of the end for me and vaccines.  I decided that vaccines are not something that need to be done (and they are not  - unless there is a genuine outbreak) and I was not going to vaccinate any child until I was convinced of the idea.  That day has not yet come.

 

 

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#14 of 47 Old 03-10-2012, 07:16 AM
 
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I was allergic/reactive to the tetanus vaccine as a child.  Found out my grandmother was too.  Figured we'd not do that one for our kids and I started researching....

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#15 of 47 Old 03-10-2012, 08:03 AM
 
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I voted "other".  My oldest daughter developed severe needle shyness (surprise?) and would cry and beg not to go to the ARNP even when I told her it wasn't for shots.  She was done with her initial rounds of shots and was nearing the age where she needed to start booster shots.  We homeschool, so I started wondering whether the age for booster shots was given at 4-6 just because of school, or if their was some medical reason that they shouldn't wait, that it was more effective, whatever.

 

 I never really got a satisfactory answer and I don't seem to be finding information on foregoing boosters (honestly, I haven't looked that carefully.)  But I did do research on the vaccines, primarily from Dr. Sears' book, and came to the conclusion that I probably could have passed on a lot more of the vaccines they received.  I felt pretty terrible.  It's not that I hadn't thought about the vaccine issue, I just was convinced that it was *all* so important.  DH's older sister died from meningitis when she was 2.  My sister's kids had really awful bouts of chicken pox and the eldest ended up hospitalized because the spots were down his throat, and he had developed pneumonia.  So, I had vaccinated without question.

 

Finally, with my dd, I told her that I thought she didn't have to have the shots if she didn't want.  It took some convincing that I was serious about this.  It helped that at this age parents need to sign a form stating that they are declining recommended vaccines, and doing this in front of her seemed to convince her finally that I meant what I said.  Neither of my girls have been vaccinated since their last toddler shots.    Luckily I have an outstanding and understanding ARNP that respects my parenting decisions.  (I'm a bit of a novelty for her.)  

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#16 of 47 Old 03-10-2012, 01:07 PM
 
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I had a friend who told me her kids weren't vaxed.  I'd never given it any thought one way or the other and didn't even want to have kids at that point in my life anyways, so I just filed the info away in my brain.  Then a few  years later I took Depo Provera because my Dr. told me to and it messed me up for a good 3 years.  That, coupled with the horrible mismanagement of a medical condition I suffered from as a child really shook my faith in Dr.s.  So I decided that from then on unless it was an emergency I wouldn't ever take any medication or injections without looking into it first.  And I decided not to vaccinate my kids.

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#17 of 47 Old 03-11-2012, 02:53 PM
 
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My oldest was maybe 4 months old.  My dh made some offhand comment about "those irresponsible people who don't vaccinate their kids" and that made me think they must have a reason to think that vaccines are not ok.  So I found the vax board here, did some research, and now we don't vax!


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#18 of 47 Old 03-11-2012, 05:39 PM
 
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I was already not as brainwashed into vaccines as many americans are. I know I got a couple vaccine boosters for school, but my mom was definitely not in any hurry. And I know I got way less than my friends so I'm sure I got as few doses as my mom could get away with. It would have been easy for her to get an exemption, but she wasn't savvy enough. Then when I would see the commercials for the chicken pox vax on tv I would be thinking, "Are you freaking kidding me?" and, I always knew that flu shots were BS. So, from that starting point, I knew from the start that there were 2 recommended vaxes that I was against. Then as a teen I babysat a ton and posted on a babysitting message board and learned about AP and would lurk on AP boards and just through discussion I would pick up little bits and pieces. And there were definitely pro-vax members of that board, so there could be lively debates. So I always knew there were 2 sides and at minimum would be selective and delay. I guess there's no real defining event. I didn't come from a pro-vax family, or even really decidedly anti vax. I didn't really have much to "unlearn" in order to decide not to vax. 

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#19 of 47 Old 03-11-2012, 08:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiago View Post

Noting that veterinary medicine was much more open about vaccination adverse reactions/events prompted my personal research of pediatric vaccines.

Here is just a sample from a very conservative medical organization, AVMA, openly discussing vaccination adverse reaction:

http://www.avma.org/issues/vaccination/vaccination.asp

 

 

from that link: "Consequently, thorough evaluations of the potential for disease exposure, individual patient susceptibility to various diseases, and the risks/benefits associated with vaccination, are necessary in order to establish optimal health care programs for each individual patient."

 

wow. i wish people took as much care with and were as open about potential adverse reactions with human vaccines.

 

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#20 of 47 Old 03-18-2012, 02:30 AM
 
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The Hep B was the trigger point for me. 

 

You want to vaccinate my 1 day old baby for a sexually transmitted disease?????!?!?!?! 

 

Are you nuts?  Why in the world would anyone DO that? 

 

And, then I started researching more and so far haven't seen any reason to get any of the vaccines....


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#21 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 03:54 AM
 
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I'm allergic to the Hep B vaccine, and have spent 2/3rds of my life messed up from it, so when I got pregnant with my first child I knew that I didn't want her to get the hep b shot in the hospital at only a few hours old. I started researching it because I wanted to know if she was likely to be allergic to it as well since I am, and also researching if I could decline giving it till she was older. I was scared to give it to her so young when I'd had bad reactions to the first 2 shots of it I got at 7. I was told not to ever get the 3rd one because I would probably die. Anyway, my research went from there, I didn't really find out much about if she was likely to be allergic to it too, but I found so much interesting bad things abut vaccines that i just couldn't give them to her. I was scared at first because everyone says your baby will die if you don't vaccinate, but the more I read the more I believed that was a bull statement and that vaccines were more dangerous. Plus I could never get the thought out of my head that she wouldn't be able to tell me if she was reacting and that she'd likely die at 6 months if she was allergic like me(since I was told not to get the third dose, and since she'd have got her 3rd dose at 6 months if she was on schedule. My reaction was way worse the second dose, but it wasn't so much noticeable on to others so it would have been easy to pass off as nothing in a baby.). Now I never will, if I can help it, vaccinate my children :) I don't want them to go through want I have or anything worse.

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#22 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 06:57 AM
 
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I have always very selectively vaxxed my dogs and horses and been rewarded with happy and very healthy animals. It made sense to apply the same to a baby and look at what is really necessary.

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#23 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 07:15 AM
 
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I read 'A Shot in the Dark' while pregnant with my son and so much of it described the way my husband was so sick as a little boy. He also very clearly remembers reacting to other vaccinations given to him when he was older.

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#24 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 07:27 AM
 
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I'm questioning now because my child got the chicken pox vaccine last week and a few days later he has little blistery things all over his body that DO look like chicken pox even though he is not itching.  No one told me that would happen!! He was healthy when we went in and now he has a terrible rash...how does that make sense?? Sorry to hijack the thread but has anyone else had an experience like that??

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#25 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 08:33 AM
 
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Dr. Worm, 

 the cp vax can and does cause chicken pox infection. Most live virus vaccines can cause the infection in the recipient and/or shed the virus to others. Oral polio was pulled from market in US because it was infecting kids with paralytic polio, and could and did infect unvaccinated people. Mothers receiving MMR after birth can transmit rubella virus through their breastmilk to their babies and even cause clinical infection (as per MMR II product insert. No info on how often that happens). Many live virus product inserts state that children being vaxed with them should NOT be around immuno-suppressed individuals because of shedding. Vaxed kids can spread vpd because they were recently vaxed.

DTaP does not always prevent pertussis infection or transmission, the vaxed person probably won't realize they have pertussis and are spreading it.

 

A lot of the cp "outbreaks" are originating from vaccinated kids. Ironically, the thread right next to this one is talking about this:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1348760/chicken-pox-titer#post_16926725

 

No one told you that would happen because they aren't really required to tell you much at all:

 

Quote:
In addition to broad liability protection, the 1986 Law also provides another shield to manufacturers under federal law. (48) The 1986 Law permits them the right to not disclose known risks to parents or guardians of those being vaccinated. Resting on the "learned intermediary" doctrine, manufacturers bear no liability for giving, or failing to give accurate or complete information to those vaccinated, and have only to provide relevant information to doctors, who must give patients CDC Vaccination Information Statements.(49)

http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr (quote on pg 9).

 

I hope your DS feels better soon. You are NOT alone.

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#26 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 08:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

Dr. Worm, 

 the cp vax can and does cause chicken pox infection. Most live virus vaccines can cause the infection in the recipient and/or shed the virus to others. Oral polio was pulled from market in US because it was infecting kids with paralytic polio, and could and did infect unvaccinated people. Mothers receiving MMR after birth can transmit rubella virus through their breastmilk to their babies and even cause clinical infection (as per MMR II product insert. No info on how often that happens). Many live virus product inserts state that children being vaxed with them should NOT be around immuno-suppressed individuals because of shedding. Vaxed kids can spread vpd because they were recently vaxed.

DTaP does not always prevent pertussis infection or transmission, the vaxed person probably won't realize they have pertussis and are spreading it.

 

A lot of the cp "outbreaks" are originating from vaccinated kids. Ironically, the thread right next to this one is talking about this:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1348760/chicken-pox-titer#post_16926725

 

No one told you that would happen because they aren't really required to tell you much at all:

 

http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr (quote on pg 9).

 

I hope your DS feels better soon. You are NOT alone.



Thank you sooo much and I will check out that other thread.  I am so upset right now.  I don't know what to do...my ds is in daycare and my dd is in public school so I have vaccinated.  This is making me question everything.  Thanks so much for the well wishes and info...I will check out that other thread.  Yeah. I read the damn papers they give and it said  "possibly a mild rash."  This was FJ^*^*&(  blisters.  I feel so stupid. 

 

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#27 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 09:14 AM
 
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hug2.gif

 

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/v/varivax/varivax_pi.pdf

 

It looks like on page 9 they say about 3% get "rash" and 1 dose, and I believe it is 5% after 2 doses.

 

Page 7

Quote:
Post-marketing experience suggests that transmission of vaccine virus may occur rarely between 
healthy vaccinees who develop a varicella-like rash  and healthy susceptible contacts. Transmission of 
vaccine virus from a mother who did not develop a varicella-like rash to her newborn infant has also been 
reported. 
Therefore, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, whenever possible,  close association with 
susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks. In circumstances where contact with high-risk 
individuals is unavoidable, the potential risk of transmission of vaccine virus should be weighed against the 
risk of acquiring and transmitting natural varicella virus. Susceptible high-risk individuals include: 
• immunocompromised individuals 
• pregnant women without documented history of chickenpox or  laboratory evidence of prior 
infection 
• newborn infants of mothers without documented history of chickenpox or laboratory evidence of 
prior infection and all newborn infants born at <28 weeks gestation regardless of maternal varicella 
immunity

 

Did you get cp as a kid?

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#28 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Thanks for the hug!!  I actually got cp a few years back. 

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#29 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 09:18 AM
 
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I can't believe they have the right not to warn parents of this stuff.  AARRGH

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#30 of 47 Old 03-27-2012, 10:53 AM
 
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Just out of curiousity... do you know about how many pox he has? the product insert said the median number was 5 for the "rash."

 

This is a really common criticism here - a lot of the clinical trials they do are not in large enough samples to really give accurate numbers about reactions, essentially the real experiments are conducted after vaccine approval... but no one is recording that or even admitting/diagnosing issues. The clinical trials also do not use true placebos but other vaccines, older vaccines, or just the adjuvants. 

 

Did you call your pedi? what did they say? Try not to freak out too much about questioning everything... lots of time for that after your son is better if you still feel that way.

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