Tetanus and farms and rusty nails - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 15 Old 04-04-2012, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I thought I had started a thread a few weeks back about my children being totally unvaxed and spending a lot of time at a farm where there are lots of horses and cattle and such. I guess I didn't. Anyway, they wear shoes when they're out there but I wanted to ask about the risk factor of tetanus.

 

I also want to discuss was what I read in the Red Cross's latest training and information and first aide guides. These are supposedly competely up to date and on the up and up. They have a brief section about tetanus and say how you can get it from things like rusty nails. How is it, when this is reviewed and backed up by doctors, experts, and professionals, that it can possibly say this? It really confuses me and I'm not sure who to believe. One of my kids did step on rusting metal a long time ago and was fine, but can we talk about how this verified and basically 100% accepted literature can say that if it's not true? I'm very confused.

 

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#2 of 15 Old 04-04-2012, 01:12 PM
 
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Tetanus spores live in dirt, dust and manure. They will only cause problems when they get into a wound that is not oxegenated (like a deep puncture wound that doesn't bleed) or crush wounds. So you can have a wound that is exposed to tetanus spores, but if it is properly tended to, and especially if it bleeds profusely, there are no problems. Tetanus spores are found lots of places but only cause disease under very specific circumstances.

 

The whole rusty nail thing is that rusty nails are likely to be found in the dirt/ground and be dirty themselves. It has nothing to do with the rust itself.


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#3 of 15 Old 04-05-2012, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Isn't that strange that they have it in the literature for the Red Cross?

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#4 of 15 Old 04-05-2012, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Soltera View Post

Isn't that strange that they have it in the literature for the Red Cross?



not really...

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#5 of 15 Old 04-06-2012, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I wouldn't think it was strange if it was a pamphlet from a doctor's office or a pharmacy or something like WIC. This is the red cross CPR and First Aid handbook for people to save people's lives. It seemed strange to me. So do you think they are purposely putting that false information or do they honestly believe it and think it will help someone?

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#6 of 15 Old 04-06-2012, 11:19 AM
 
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I think it is pretty much what Marnica said... most of the time when we think about "stepping on a rusty nail" as a tetanus risk... it would be a nail partially buried in the dirt... where spores could live, so have dirt on it which it would introduce to wound, which may be pretty deep. I don't think this is intentional misinformation, maybe it's just not explained fully.

 

ETA: I think there are a lot of half truths or not fully explained/relevant issues in a lot of the standard literature in regards to vax and vpd. Like concern about aluminum? - "you get more exposure daily from cookware" - yeah but digestion =/ injection. It is true but not relevant.

It is just standard rhetoric which most won't question further.

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#7 of 15 Old 04-07-2012, 06:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Soltera View Post

I thought I had started a thread a few weeks back about my children being totally unvaxed and spending a lot of time at a farm where there are lots of horses and cattle and such. I guess I didn't. Anyway, they wear shoes when they're out there but I wanted to ask about the risk factor of tetanus.

 

I also want to discuss was what I read in the Red Cross's latest training and information and first aide guides. These are supposedly competely up to date and on the up and up. They have a brief section about tetanus and say how you can get it from things like rusty nails. How is it, when this is reviewed and backed up by doctors, experts, and professionals, that it can possibly say this? It really confuses me and I'm not sure who to believe. One of my kids did step on rusting metal a long time ago and was fine, but can we talk about how this verified and basically 100% accepted literature can say that if it's not true? I'm very confused.

 

Thanks.

 

 


Wait, what are you saying isn't true? That you can get tetanus from stepping on a rusty nail? I'm pretty sure that IS possible.

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#8 of 15 Old 04-08-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not saying anything. I'm questioning it, because people on here have said over and over again that's a myth and misinformation, even if it is remotely possible. This was *the* way of getting tetanus that the red cross stated in their literature. And as you can tell from the responses, yes many people do think medical literature purposely and regularly publishes misleading and even untrue infromation.

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#9 of 15 Old 04-08-2012, 10:40 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama Soltera View Post

I'm not saying anything. I'm questioning it, because people on here have said over and over again that's a myth and misinformation, even if it is remotely possible. This was *the* way of getting tetanus that the red cross stated in their literature. And as you can tell from the responses, yes many people do think medical literature purposely and regularly publishes misleading and even untrue infromation.


I don't want to seem rude, but I don't really understand what you are hung up on about this. The rusty nail would be the potential vehicle for causing a deep puncture wound and we would assume most injuries with rusty nails would come about from nails obscured or buried in dirt. It's not the rusty nail itself, it's where it has been and what else is on it and the type of deep wound it could potentially create. No one has said stepping on a nail could never cause tetanus, they were just clarifying how that would work... and that other types of injuries are risks too.

 

Quote:
C. tetani spores can be found in the soil and in the intestines and feces of many household and farm animals and humans. The bacteria usually enter the human body through a puncture (in the presence of anaerobic [low oxygen] conditions, the spores will germinate).
 
Tetanus bacilli live in the soil, so the most dangerous kind of injury involves possible contamination with dirt, animal feces, and manure. 
 

 

If you managed to have a wound from a rusty nail, that was never in the dirt, and it was a shallow wound that bled a lot and was cleaned, it would not be much tetanus risk...even though it was from a rusty nail.

 

eta: mama soltera, do you have the language from the red cross literature? I kinda doubt it is "wrong," it is probably just not explained well?

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#10 of 15 Old 04-10-2012, 01:13 PM
 
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Are you just getting at the fact that the rusty nail thing is always the poster child for tetanus, even though we know that tetanus can be found just about anywhere? Rust or no, metal or no. For example, I was told by my HCP that because my tetanus shot isn't up to date that if I go to the ER, with a cut from metal they would administer the tetanus vax.  Why?  Because of the whole rusty nail thing. And, aside from that, what good would the tetanus vax do for me at the time of infection anyway?  I think that while yes, tetanus is a risk from a rusty nail, there is a lot of misinformation about the fact that many things could cause tetanus.


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#11 of 15 Old 04-11-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, Magali, I do feel that there is too much misinformation about tetanus. People really think it's rust on metal that causes it and I've always heard the rusty nail thing came from barns where animal feces could be on the nails and that's where you would pick up the spores. And, I mentioned on another thread that my totally unvaxed daughter did step on rusting metal and it's been years and she is just fine. ;)  When I was a teenager I was bit by a three-year-old (yes, child) and they gave me a tetanus shot at the doctor's. When I've had to bring my kids to the hospital the first thing they ask, no matter what I've brought them in for!, is are they up to date on their tetanus. I say yes, because to me they are. Never is recent enough for me. lol 

 

So, is the main thing in preventing it just to help a puncture wound bleed if it didn't bleed enough?

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#12 of 15 Old 04-11-2012, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, and really my whole point in starting this thread was my concern over my children spending a lot of time on a farm where there are lots of barn animals and how that affects their risk (i.e. when would the risks of getting tetanus outweigh the risks of getting the shot).

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#13 of 15 Old 04-11-2012, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
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Oh, and really my whole point in starting this thread was my concern over my children spending a lot of time on a farm where there are lots of barn animals and how that affects their risk (i.e. when would the risks of getting tetanus outweigh the risks of getting the shot).

 

I think this is really personal call. I grew up in surrounded by farms, streams, ponds, often barefoot or digging in mud, even worked on a dairy farm when I was pre-teen. I've never in my life had an injury that needed stitches or serious attention, (except hairline fracture of elbow once). DH on the other hand has got plenty of scars from crazy injuries he got as a kid - jumping off high places, etc.

 

Td is available, and I think you can still get just T for older than 7. Tig is available if you don't want to vax but ever have a really serious tetanus risk injury... 

 

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#14 of 15 Old 04-11-2012, 11:29 AM
 
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now that is is combined with the DPT only, not sure there is ever a  time to do it (but that's my own opinion).  If there is ever an injury that concerns you there are always actions that can be taken.  The vaccine for tetanus have never actually been proven.  Just read a great book where they talk about this Vaccine Illusion.  It talked about the standard care for tetanus and survival outcomes.  I also learned that Vitamin C was studied and shown to have an effect.  Here is a study on animals http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18425960 but the human trial that was done used injected vitamin c.


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#15 of 15 Old 04-12-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much for all your help. I will check out that link.

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