hello! can you advice on how to raise nonvacc kids??? - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-01-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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hi all, i'm new here!!!

 

i live in beautiful snowdonia, in northwales, uk, and have two kids, ds 5, and dd3 and am 12 weeks preggie!

 the kids have been raised vegan since birth, both robustly healthy, and our diet is normally quite healthy, interspersed by the odd bit of junk food such as cake, chocolate etc...

here is a little background on our vaccination status and then a question on how to manage nonvacc kids???

 


so far, only the first child has been vaccinated once, with his 2 mths shots years ago.
we didn't know thats what the 2 mth baby check was about, and when the doctor got out the jabs, we said we didn't know this was going to happen, and hadn't made up our minds on the matter at the time, whether to delay vaccs or to not vacc at all...she got all huffy and pushy and told us as she knows best, she's just going to go ahead and do it!
she shoved the consent form at my husband and told him to sign, which he did.
i asked her about the 2nd jab she was going to give as it was new, and she couldn't answer my question, as she had just been to the conference the week before, but fell asleep as it was so boring, bu don't worry, it was safe, and necessary..we continued to say we really didn't want it done, but she roughly stuck him with both needles and that was that...
we walked out of there shell shocked, wondering how that just happened and felt really guilty about allowing someone to do something to our baby, that we didn't want done!
i had had a really rough two months with difficulties trying to feed a tongue tied  baby and  i guess were were just shellshocked and bullied into it...anyway, after the jabs, followed countless coughs colds and high fevers that he previously had not had and that continued for the first 18 mths! despite being breastfed til 4.5 yrs he also developed his first ear infection at 4, and had 6 really bad ones (including losing hearing temp) over the next 18mths.

the 3 yr old girl however, has had nothing at all, and perfect health! we stayed clear of health visitors after her birth and repeatedly rebuffed the phone calls from the doctors to get the kids immunised..they gave up after she was 2, i guess because they would no longer get their government incentive money for it as she was now past the 2 yr cutoff for the vaccs!

so we have two kids that are as yet unvaccinated...
the 3 yr old just had fifths disease (parvovirus) which we will note for future ref when she is preg. i had to have a bloodtest, which fortunately showed i did have antibodies to it...so at least i don't have to worry about the baby being damaged by it...

so the question is really, what if they don't end up getting the natural diseases on their own?
i'm concerned about what happens when they are older if they don't develop natural immunity to the disease by having it?
what happens when they are preg, if they never got chickenpox, rubella etc?

i know that getting childhood diseases when you are older can be quite serious, so if they don't come across them when they are young, what is the deal with that?

is the aim to try to seek out measles and all the other illness etc, so the kids get infected and get natural immunity???
i'm not really sure what to do???

 

what is the general accepted "way' to do this???

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Old 05-01-2012, 09:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by northwalesmummy View Post

 


so the question is really, what if they don't end up getting the natural diseases on their own?
i'm concerned about what happens when they are older if they don't develop natural immunity to the disease by having it?
what happens when they are preg, if they never got chickenpox, rubella etc?

i know that getting childhood diseases when you are older can be quite serious, so if they don't come across them when they are young, what is the deal with that?

 

I am facing that decision with my daughter.  She is 13, and the question of rubella keeps coming to mind (thankfully she had CP).  Rubella is not safe in pregnancy. Here is what I intend to do about it:

-research the likelihood of her getting rubella

-research the likelihood of it being an issue in pregnancy

-research the safety of the vaccine and its effectiveness

-present finding to DD at an appropriate time.  This is her body - she can decide whether or not to risk the vax or risk rubella.  

 



is the aim to try to seek out measles and all the other illness etc, so the kids get infected and get natural immunity???
i'm not really sure what to do???

 

Personally, and assuming good health, I would expose a child to CP, mumps (pre-puberty, of course) and rubella in a heartbeat.   

 

I would not expose kids to the other disease.  Some folks would expose a kid to measles, but the risks are too high for my comfort.

 

what is the general accepted "way' to do this???

 

I would look up how to prevent and treat issues.  This has given me some comfort.  Ex - Vit. C really cuts down on severity of measles, wounds that bleed are unlikely to develop tetanus (and tetanus is found primarily in fecal matter).  

 

I would also look up the regulations and exemptions for vaccine status and schools.  Make sure you know the laws - some people try to present things as facts and rules without a leg to stand on.  

 

Be careful about sharing vaccine status with others.  I have been pretty open about it, and lost no friends or family due to non-vaxxing, but others on this forum have not been so lucky greensad.gif

 

Welcome to MDC!

 

Kathy

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Old 05-01-2012, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks for that info!

 

re tetanus, we live in the country, with horses riding down the lanes and across the fields, infact theres a pile of horsepoop in the bridge out the front of our house right now!!! my husband was a barefoot runner, but has since relunctantly gone to wearing thin soled shoes to run, so he doesn't get parasites through his feet! :)

 

back to the vacc issue..

yes, alot of people react stupendously if they know you don't vaccinate, and have all sorts of silly things they spout off, that can be totally disproven with loads of scientific research, but they never want to know! whatever, they risk their kids health, and future health! all sorts of nasty autoimmune diseases people are getting these days that are a blight on the rest of their lives, due in my opinion, to our massive vaccination scheme these day!

my sister and my husbands sister both have crohn's disease...although its apparently "rare", i know that measles virus has been found in 40% of crohn's patients bowels, where it has no business being...hmmm..

 

 

one set of cousins has two of the girls in their 30's, now disable over a decade from ME.one is totally housebound now, and can barely cope with the stimulation of reading...the other sister is not quite as bad, but significantly affected.her other brother and other sister have had weird, unexplainable autoimmune problems throughout their life....nothing inherited,so what causes it???

 

 

i keep quiet about our status to most people as its none of their business...to other like minded mums, i am open...

in the uk they can't force you to vaccinate and the school never even asked their status!

i told the midwife i was talking to the other week, when my daughter got fifths disease, that neither of my kids were vaccinated, and she said thats fine, as long as you've done your research and are happy with your decision....so that was nice for the first time to have a medical professional not even blink an eyelid....it was when we lived in london that they were really pushy!

 

i like your take on rubella and i think thats a good idea...

a man we know has shingles atm, so i could get them exposed to the chickenpox now, before the baby came along,(i'm 12 weeks) if he was willing! i had chicken pox when i was 9 or something, so i would be fine being pregnant..i'm sure the bloods done when i was preg with my first confirmed immunity to chickenpox.. surely it would be after for them to get it now, than later when i have a newborn???

 

i know it can be terrible when you are older, as when me and my brother and sister had chickenpox, a man in his 40's came to our house for abut 15 mins..we were all asleep in our bedrooms well away from him, but he got sick from chickenpox and was in hospital for 3 weeks!

 

thanks for taking the time to reply!!!

 

i used to be on an attachment forum in the uk called i want my mum, that was fabulous, but it unfortunately closed down...its nice to be in a place where people don't think you're a weirdo for breastfeeding a toddler etc!! :)
 

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Old 05-01-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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i tried to find somewhere on here if you are allowed to post links..i couldn't find anything, so hopefully its ok...

i was wondering what you think on this ladies take on why she wouldn't deliberately expose her kids to the chickenpox?

http://blindedbythelightt.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/chickenpox-party-rsvp.html

 

it was interesting and i could see her point, esp about risk of shingles later on in life,as it is hard to be exposed to the wild virus as a booster these days....

 

but then again, we don't use the chickenpox vaccine in the uk, so i'm sure there would be more of a chance of being exposed to boost your immunity later in life, than there would be in the usa?

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Old 05-01-2012, 01:15 PM
 
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You are allowed to post links.  I thought they held links from new people, but you seemed to escape this, so thumb.gif

 

I am interested to see what other people think of the link.

 

I maintain I still would expose a healthy child to mumps (particularly males) and rubella (particularly females).  They are mild diseases in children, and prevent messy vax decisions down the road.  I feel confident in the knowledge I have of those disease, but far less confident on possible vaccine reactions to MMR.  

 

Chicken pox is a complicated decision, as far as I am concerned.  There is increasing evidence that getting CP in this day and age (when CP is no longer common, due to vaccination) might lead to increased chances of shingles.  In some ways you are lucky - the UK does not "do" CP shots regularly  (am I correct?)  so your family is less at risk of shingles than my two oldest kids, who had CP, but are not having their immune systems boosted due to a lack of the disease floating around.  Time may sort out what to do with CP (chicken pox parties or no chicken pox parties) but for the moment this might vary from country to country.   

 

I also have this theory that normal childhood disease actually help the immune system develop.  I am not sure healthy children should avoid the safer childhood diseases.

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Old 05-01-2012, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i agree from what i have read that you do get developmental jumps after childhood illnesses...

 

i don't remember ever personally knowing anyone with the mumps (grew up in australia) but my fatherinlaw, from guyana, west indies apparently got it as a teen i thing and one of his testicles stopped working, although it didn't stop him having 4 kids!

 

in australia as a kid growing up in the 70's i remember a big lineup at school and having to go past the nurse and swallow the polio medicine (yuk) and have jabs...i don't know if our parents had to sign consents or not..?

 

anyway, mum basically let us play with anyone with a sniffle etc as kids before all these shots and we never got anything notable..obviously i got fifths disease (slapped cheek, parvovirus) which no one remembers, as i have antibodies to it thankfully, or i'd be worried being 12 weeks preg right now, after my daughter having it a few weeks ago!

mum and dad said it was considered no big deal as kids in the 40's to get measles ,mumps etc...no worse than the common cold, and they and their friends were fine...

 

what is concerning is when people start medicating and interferring with the natural run of the diseases, and you start to get trouble...but mum was never one to give us any medicine really either.. she had they "you'll be right" attitude..

 

a bay in a play group had rubella when my son was about 7 mths old..the poor mum didn't know as he just had symptoms of a cold, but when she went to change his nappy and partially undress him, the rash had shown up for all to see...she was mortified and apologised to everyone...ofcourse i was a bit freaked out then as my kid had been playing with hers and chewing the same toys, but he never got it!

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Old 05-01-2012, 04:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

Chicken pox is a complicated decision, as far as I am concerned.  There is increasing evidence that getting CP in this day and age (when CP is no longer common, due to vaccination) might lead to increased chances of shingles.  

 

Maybe adults should start trying to arrange pox parties for themselves to attend!ROTFLMAO.gif

 

I would purposely expose for cp, but would be preferrable if caught wild... I am in country where public health does not cover cp vax too, so hoping that gets resolved that way. I doubt I could find mumps or rubella even if we wanted it... never given thought about purposely exposing for that.

I have read that in Germany/Austria they do have measles parties, not sure how I feel about that.

 

This isn't about vax, more about germ exposure in general, read it the other day and thought it was cute,

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/04/a_j_jacobs_drop_dead_healthy_chapter_germs_germaphobes_and_the_hygiene_hypothesis_.html

 

Quote:
I tell her about how my son licked ice cream off the sidewalk. “Good for him,” she says. “He is going to be a healthy adult.”

 

I def tend to follow more of his wife's theory, but can see the value of handwashing :)

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Old 05-01-2012, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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going to a playgroup in london probably gives you a pretty good chance of running into something ! lol!

thats where we ran into the rubella and if you are born in some parts of london, they want to vaccinate at birth for tuberculosis as is apparently rife in some areas due to the large amounts of immigrants from certain places there! that said, they can't make you do it and i don't know anyone who's ever had tb...!

 

up in north wales, it isn't very multicultural, and you don't have the influx of people transiting in and out like you do in london, so may be less likely to come across some of these things!?

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Old 05-01-2012, 05:45 PM
 
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I am in Brazil... I think we have really good chances of chicken pox and hep A (beach). There actually was a rubella "outbreak" here a few years ago...

 

DD just had roseola a few weeks ago. Now that she is 2+ I am feeling a lot better about letting her immune system handle things. 

 

Northwales, if you have been reading this board at all I'm sure you've seen it, but I like it so much I wanna put it out there as much as possible - about Vitamin C for treatment of Pertussis, and she mentions vitamin c and a for other diseases too.

 

 

 http://vaccinationcouncil.org/media/The-Vitamin-C-Treatment-of-Whooping-Cough.pdf

 

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