How to fake a vaccination record? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-12-2012, 10:44 AM
 
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Autism predates vaccines, significantly.  The word originated in 1908 and symptoms have been described throughout history.

 

 

The symptoms were described in children with acrodynia: http://www.safeminds.org/news/documents/Acrodynia%20comparison%20combined.pdf

Acrodynia, also called "Pink Disease," was later traced to the calomel (mercury choloride) used in teething powers at the time; it was mercury poisoning.

 

And isn't it fascinating that children with a family history of acrodynia are at significant risk for developing autism?

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20110908-22477.html

 

A family history of pink disease is a significant risk factor for developing autism spectrum disorder (ASD), new research from Swinburne University of Technology has found.

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:57 AM
 
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i have asperger's - was it caused by an adverse reaction?  not a clue bec i was very very sickly as an infant (at one year, i had gained only 2lbs over my recorded birth weight which was actually done when i was 2wks old).

my oldest and my youngest have asperger's - yes, they had adverse vaccine reactions.

but i also know someone who is a very very crunchy granola tree-hugger - she does the whole organic/chemical-free thing to the extent that *nothing* she feeds her kids comes out of a packet or can; it's all fresh out of the garden or frozen from local sources:  out of her 7 children, 3 are vaccinated - one of them has classic autism; 2 are partically vaccinated - they're fine; and 2 are not vaccinated - one has asperger's.

nikolai tesla - *classic* case of asperger's syndrome.  the only vaccine they had back then was smallpox and it was not at all related to the ones we get today.

mozart - asperger's.

george washington and michaelangelo?  asperger's too.

basically, anybody who was ever anybody was probably not neurotypical which is why they were able to come up with amazing advances that required "outside the box" thinking and the ability to kick over socially-dictated norms.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:19 PM
 
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Well, I suppose if you have mercury poisoning or some other heavy metal poisoning that affects some areas of the brain, other areas of the brain will compensate to some extent. Then, those areas would be much more highly developed.

 

Vaccines are not the only source of heavy metal poisoning--just the most common one.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:55 AM
 
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Vaccines are not the only source of heavy metal poisoning--just the most common one.
I think I'm misreading what you're saying, because that's not true. I'm pretty sure that lead poisoning is the most common heavy metal poisoning, followed by mercury and arsenic, and vaccines are not the #1 source for any of those.

Regardless, the OP hasn't been on MDC in 3.5 months, and this thread isn't about vaccination records anymore. If you'd like to discuss these or any of the other issues that have sprung up, how about starting spin-off (s)?? We're working on the Vaccine board reorganization, and this forum won't be open for debate anymore anyway.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:06 AM
 
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i have asperger's - was it caused by an adverse reaction?  not a clue bec i was very very sickly as an infant (at one year, i had gained only 2lbs over my recorded birth weight which was actually done when i was 2wks old).


my oldest and my youngest have asperger's - yes, they had adverse vaccine reactions.


but i also know someone who is a very very crunchy granola tree-hugger - she does the whole organic/chemical-free thing to the extent that *nothing* she feeds her kids comes out of a packet or can; it's all fresh out of the garden or frozen from local sources:  out of her 7 children, 3 are vaccinated - one of them has classic autism; 2 are partically vaccinated - they're fine; and 2 are not vaccinated - one has asperger's.


nikolai tesla - *classic* case of asperger's syndrome.  the only vaccine they had back then was smallpox and it was not at all related to the ones we get today.


mozart - asperger's.


george washington and michaelangelo?  asperger's too.


basically, anybody who was ever anybody was probably not neurotypical which is why they were able to come up with amazing advances that required "outside the box" thinking and the ability to kick over socially-dictated norms.


How can historical figures be positively diagnosed? There always seems to be assumptions and guesses being stated as facts.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:20 AM
 
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I think I'm misreading what you're saying, because that's not true. I'm pretty sure that lead poisoning is the most common heavy metal poisoning, followed by mercury and arsenic, and vaccines are not the #1 source for any of those.
Regardless, the OP hasn't been on MDC in 3.5 months, and this thread isn't about vaccination records anymore. If you'd like to discuss these or any of the other issues that have sprung up, how about starting spin-off (s)?? We're working on the Vaccine board reorganization, and this forum won't be open for debate anymore anyway.

You're right.  But the mercury that is still in some vaccines can magnify the effect of lead poisoning:

 

 

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Mercury and lead are extremely neurotoxic and cytotoxic, but their combined synergistic effect is much worse(1,4). A dose of mercury sufficient to kill 1% of tested rats, when combined with a dose of lead sufficient to kill less than 1% of rats, resulted in killing 100 % of rats tested(1a,4). Thus with combined exposure the safe dose is 1/100 as much as the dose individually. Studies in Australia have confirmed similar relationships hold for people(6). This means most people in the U.S. are getting dangerous levels of these metals, enough to cause some neurologic effects.
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Any child that is lead toxic or has a burden of lead will be much more susceptible to mercury toxicity than one who is totally free of lead. Again, that’s something that’s been known for 30 or more years.

- Boyd Haley, PhD

 

I wonder if the same holds true for the combination of aluminum and lead.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:31 AM
 
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How can historical figures be positively diagnosed? There always seems to be assumptions and guesses being stated as facts.

They can't be positively diagnosed.  You are correct.  They are assumptions and guesses.  If we're going there, we can assume and guess that mercury poisoning may have played a role.  There's no assumption of where the phrase "mad as a hatter" came from; that "madness" has been established as mercury poisoning.

 

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_as_a_hatter:

""Mad as a hatter" is a colloquial phrase used in conversation to refer to a crazy person. In 18th and 19th century England mercury was used in the production of felt, which was used in the manufacturing of hats common of the time. People who worked in these hat factories were exposed daily to trace amounts of the metal, which accumulated within their bodies over time, causing some workers to develop dementia caused by mercury poisoning. Thus the phrase "Mad as a Hatter" became popular as a way to refer to someone who was perceived as insane."

 

Apparently, absorbing mercury through the skin can result in "Korsakoff syndrome:" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsakoff%27s_syndrome and ^ ATSDR. 1999. Toxicological Profile for Mercury. Atlanta, GA:Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp46.pdf

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:54 AM
 
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I don't think assumptions or guesses make for a very convincing debate. We shoule stick to verifiable information. Let the dead rest in peace, and leave them out of these debates!
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:40 PM
 
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It's VERY different in the US.
In at least 2 states, the only possible exemptions are medical ones--and many parents of vaccine-injured children are reporting that they are unable to obtain medical exemptions for siblings of vaccine-injured children, and in many cases, for the vaccine-injured children themselves!

Some states are ceasing to accept philosophical exemptions and those that accept religious exemptions are making them next to impossible to obtain.

 

I worry about the possibility of future forced vaccinations.

 

Last year I went to a talk given by one of the Vaccine Epidemic authors Louise Habakus, and she speculated about such a future and said we'd have to find work-around solutions. Perhaps getting a fake vaccine record would be one of them. I know two doctors who would be willing to do it, but they are getting older. 


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Old 11-15-2012, 01:42 PM
 
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It seems like it would be easier for those doctors to just give you a medical exemption rather than both of you committing fraud.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:25 PM
 
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What will happen to a doctor who hands out too many medical exemptions?


 
 
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:45 PM
 
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Uh, what will happen to the doctor who's caught helping people commit fraud?

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Old 11-15-2012, 07:19 PM
 
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He or she will be punished, since fraud is a punishable offense,  but that was not my question. I already know what will happen to a doctor who commits fraud.

 

My question, Again: What will happen to a doctor who hands out too many medical exemptions? I would like to know what others think.


 
 
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:21 PM
 
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I don't know, I guess what's too many?  I was just offering it as a better option than, you know, a crime.

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Old 11-15-2012, 08:30 PM
 
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I don't know, I guess what's too many?  I was just offering it as a better option than, you know, a crime.

 

The PP that you were responding to was talking about a hypothetical future of forced vaccinations.  Accusing a poster of a crime when the subject was hypothetical is inappropriate.  


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Old 11-15-2012, 08:33 PM
 
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What in the world. I wasn't accusing anyone of anything.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:10 PM
 
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He or she will be punished, since fraud is a punishable offense,  but that was not my question. I already know what will happen to a doctor who commits fraud.

 

My question, Again: What will happen to a doctor who hands out too many medical exemptions? I would like to know what others think.

I think they could ultimately be questioned on why they give out more medical exemptions than the norm.  I don't know that anything will go beyond questioning and a lot of bureaucratic paper filling out to justify your exemptions, but I could be wrong!

 

a high rate of medical exemptions would be excusable if their speciality (say oncology) means their patients should not receive vaccines; it is less likely to be well received if  they do not have very firm medical grounds for excess exemptions.  My 2cents.gif

 

Of course, regulating bodies would have to work pretty closely with doctors for this to happen - I am not sure I have ever heard of a case where a doctor got in trouble for too many medical exemptions.

 

Some doctors will not appreciate having their medical exemptions questioned.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 11-16-2012, 06:29 AM
 
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It seems like doctors have a lot of latitude. If there's even half as much convincing evidence tht vaccines aren't safe or effective as there is generally presented to be here, it seems like justifying the exemption shouldn't be a problem. Certainly finding a sympathetic doctor could be a challenge, but I think doable in most areas.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:48 AM
 
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I don't understand your point, Rachel.

 

I expect most doctors would only grant a medical exemption if they meet whatever grounds there are for a medical exemption.

 

Are you suggesting people should keep looking around for a medical exemption when they probably do not qualify? headscratch.gif

 

Here is a table on contra-indications:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htm


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 11-16-2012, 08:01 AM
 
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I'm saying if you feel like vaccines are harmful to your child's health you should look for a doctor who supports that and will give you a medical exemption.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:03 AM
 
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To offer perspective, I still can't wrap my head around those oppressive laws here in the US (supposedly land of the free, but I guess not vaccine choice wise). I can call it quits on this country if I have to and go back home where no mandatory laws exist nor are they pondered. Whenever I tell my vaccinating, selectively vaccinating and non-vaccinating friends back home about those vaccine school laws here they scratch their head and find them offensive and crazy.

 

(I am a selective vaxer; and I respect parents whether they vaccinate or not; I DO believe everyone should have the CHOICE).

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Old 11-16-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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I believe people DO have a choice. Faking a vaccine record is a crime. That's not extreme it's a fact. It's called fraud. There are ways to avoid vaccinating your child without committing a crime.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:15 AM
 
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Not to mention its shooting yourself in the foot. It's become harder to get religious exemptions in various states as a direct result of people abusing them and using them fraudulently. If you want an exemption for health reasons, get a medical exemption. Find a doctor who will listen to you. If you want to avoid vaccines and can't get an exemption, start coming up with some creative solutions to the child care dilemma. We all had to take care of our kids or find someone to take care of our kids while we worked the first 5-6 years of their lives. Somehow we muddled through. Get together with some other parents in your community and start a homeschool cooperative, or trade child care, or one of dozens of other things I haven't even thought of. Take that same attitude of "oh hell no if it hurts my kid" and redirect it into finding an actual solution, instead of trying to cheat the system, which will in turn just become more restrictive and more difficult to game.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:15 AM
 
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I believe people DO have a choice. Faking a vaccine record is a crime. That's not extreme it's a fact. It's called fraud. There are ways to avoid vaccinating your child without committing a crime.

Not always.

 

Quite frankly, neither you, I, or anyone else on the internet can judge whether or not a person can get a exemption.  It is pretty assumptive to think everyone can get an exemption.  

 

The ease of exemption getting is very much a local issue.


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Old 11-16-2012, 08:19 AM
 
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Sure it is, but anything to protect your kids, right? Even if it's not easy?
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:20 AM
 
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And exemptions are not the only way to avoid vaccinating. Everyone has choices. They're not always the most convenient one but they're there.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:22 AM
 
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Not to mention its shooting yourself in the foot. It's become harder to get religious exemptions in various states as a direct result of people abusing them and using them fraudulently. 

This, IMHO opinion is a total load of crap.  It is becoming harder to get religious exemptions as those in power want everyone to vax - making religious exemptions harder to get is the easiest way to do it.  It has nothing to do with "medical fraud."

 

How many doctors have been charged with medical fraud over exemptions?  Parents?  I am imagining the number is close to none.  It is not an emerging problem - it is an excuse used by pro-vax forces.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 11-16-2012, 08:28 AM
 
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I keep forgetting what forum this is in. I'm going to back away.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:40 AM
 
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Sure it is, but anything to protect your kids, right? Even if it's not easy?

Correct - which may include breaking the law in the rare instance someone feels it is the only option. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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Old 11-16-2012, 02:39 PM
 
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Wow.  this all went seriously off topic.

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