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#1 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The poor down-trodden pro-vax parents. Let's bring up "ill-informed" non-vaxers, and the queen of them all, Jenny McCarthy; blame non-vaxers for the pertussis outbreak; add in the vaccine's saved us schpel; marginalize anyone who discusses vaccine safety and the autism link and who lobies for vaccine exemptions. The author of this opinion piece, evidently had her nose put out of joint when she was scheduled to speak on vaccines at a local library, but she was cancelled because they couldn't find an anti-vaccine speaker to present the alterative view. She didn't believe that the parents needed to hear the other side.

 

 

 

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The truth? Arguing against vaccination is akin to arguing the Earth is flat or the Holocaust never happened. Without vaccines, thousands of kids in this state alone would die each year.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_guest_blog/2012/11/pro-vaccine_parents_need_to_sp.html


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#2 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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I know we harp on this a lot, but it's always helpful to consider the source. On the one hand, I appreciate that you don't have to have a background in immunology to publish a book and make medical decisions for your children. On the other hand, a freelance writer/national reading test grader is not the kind of source I typically seek out for balanced research on medical decisions.

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#3 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post

I know we harp on this a lot, but it's always helpful to consider the source. On the one hand, I appreciate that you don't have to have a background in immunology to publish a book and make medical decisions for your children. On the other hand, a freelance writer/national reading test grader is not the kind of source I typically seek out for balanced research on medical decisions.

It's the sentiment of the piece that is the issue, not really the content, and I am sure your are not the target audience for the editorial piece.

 

It's this also a support forum for non-vaxing members, so vaxers really shouldn't need to feel threatened. This article just highlights the kind of reaction we get from the general public every.single.day.

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#4 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 12:22 PM
 
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I think the lies in this article are more disturbing than the trash-talk against parents who question/criticize vaccine safety/efficacy.

 

Ms. Herlihy says that the risk of side effects from vaccines is an untrue allegation?

 

There are a couple of thousand families who actually managed to win their cases in vaccine court; their children have permanent brain damage from the vaccines they were given.

 

Tens of thousands of other children had the exact same brain damage from vaccines, but their doctors made the mistake of diagnosing it as "autism," which automatically disqualifies them from pursuing their cases in vaccine court.

 

I'd love to see her in a debate against Louise Kwo Habukus.

 Compare this interview http://2012.realmama.org/2011/08/profile-of-louise-kuo-habakus-author-of-vaccine-epidemic-advocate-speaker/

with Ms. Herlihy's ranting that "arguing against vaccination is akin to arguing the Earth is flat.

 

Ms. Herlihy, a freelance writer is the author of a pro-vaccine book; she chose vaccine industry spokesman Paul Offit to write the foreward.

 

In this article, she:

- prefers that people not have choice when it comes to vaccines
- criticized Governor Christie for meeting with concerned parents
- invited

 a one-sided conversation
- made unsupported assertions
- complained because a library withdrew an invitation for her to speak
- invoked Holocaust deniers to oversimplify a legitimate debate
 
 
 
 
 

 

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#5 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 12:42 PM
 
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I'm new here and I'm so glad I found this forum with people who have similar views on vaccines like I do. That article was terrible although not unexpected as I have met my fair share of very militant vaccine advocates.

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#6 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 06:03 PM
 
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"The truth? Arguing against vaccination is akin to arguing the Earth is flat or the Holocaust never happened."

biglaugh.gifangry.gif  I am not sure whether to laugh or be annoyed….what a ludicrous statement.

"We, the ordinary pro-vaccine parents of New Jersey, need to say so without being censored or forced to share a podium with those who attempt to scare our fellow parents away from vitally important public health measures. The very safety of our community depends on it."

eyesroll.gif  Seems like she is afraid to share the podium.  Ok - so she does not want to be censored - but wants to censor others?  Puhleeze...


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#7 of 18 Old 11-26-2012, 06:10 PM
 
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I thought this part of the article made spectacularly little sense

 

 

"It is understandable that moms and dads are apprehensive about vaccines. Bring up this subject at any playground and you’ll often immediately hear horror stories…..(snip)

None of this criticism has real merit. Vaccines are an amazing accomplishment and a tremendous boon to humanity."

 

These lines follow each other.  On one hand she is saying that vaccine horror stories are commonplace - and then in the next saying  this criticism has no real merit. I know stories on playgrounds are anecdotes (goodness, I hate that word) but if they are commonplace enough you can hear them on any playground, you think she might take them seriously.  banghead.gif

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#8 of 18 Old 11-28-2012, 09:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

"The truth? Arguing against vaccination is akin to arguing the Earth is flat or the Holocaust never happened."

biglaugh.gifangry.gif  I am not sure whether to laugh or be annoyed….what a ludicrous statement.

 

It's a way to demonize anyone who dares to argue against vaccination, for any reason.

 

She is literally saying that pointing to the people who have had vaccine-induced seizures/brain damage/death/autoimmune disorders (and ALL of these are admitted even by the US department of Health and Human Services) and saying, "hmm, maybe we shouldn't vaccinate because these horrible things can happen" is like saying the Earth is flat or denying that the Holocause happened.


She is saying that people who argue against vaccination are deluded and/or lying.

 

It's not funny.  I wouldn't even call it annoying.

 

It's HORRIFYING.

 

Even more horrifying is that we get that attitude from the majority of the pro-vaxers.  Some of them even believe it.

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#9 of 18 Old 11-28-2012, 12:17 PM
 
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Well, it would be laugh due to the ridiculous-ness of the statement.

 

None-less-less, sorry if it came across as insensitive.  

 

I agree it is a demonizing statement. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#10 of 18 Old 11-28-2012, 12:22 PM
 
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Delusional comes to mind when I hear stuff like that.....


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#11 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 06:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

It's the sentiment of the piece that is the issue, not really the content, and I am sure your are not the target audience for the editorial piece.

It's this also a support forum for non-vaxing members, so vaxers really shouldn't need to feel threatened. This article just highlights the kind of reaction we get from the general public every.single.day.
Mirzam, I think you may be misunderstanding. I'm agreeing with you. I think this person is hardly considered an "expert", but she has a book and now this article where she say whatever she wants. Honestly, this kind of attitude is precisely why we have the vax forum here, so that we can discuss these issues rather than reducing any side of the issue as delusional.

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#12 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 06:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post

Mirzam, I think you may be misunderstanding. I'm agreeing with you. I think this person is hardly considered an "expert", but she has a book and now this article where she say whatever she wants. Honestly, this kind of attitude is precisely why we have the vax forum here, so that we can discuss these issues rather than reducing any side of the issue as delusional.

I am a little lost.  Maybe I need more coffee…..

 

by "this kind of attitude" - do you mean the attitude of the author cited in the OP?

by "vax forum" - do you mean non-vax forum?


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#13 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 07:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I am a little lost.  Maybe I need more coffee…..

by "this kind of attitude" - do you mean the attitude of the author cited in the OP?
by "vax forum" - do you mean non-vax forum?
I meant the attitude in the article posted, or specifically, the flat-out discounting of any opinion that doesn't agree with hers. Really any attitude that "the other side" has no valid reason for their beliefs and are "delusional" or otherwise uninformed bugs me like crazy. In my opinion, that's why the Vax forum (including all the subforums) is so awesome: it's a chance to really delve into the research and the opinions from both sides, leading to strong decisions and a better appreciation of where others are coming from.

Sorry if that came out totally wrong, and thanks for giving me a chance to explain! I hope this doesn't come out way wrong, too, though I wouldn't be surprised if it did! lol.gif

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#14 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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Thanks for clarifying.  smile.gif


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#15 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 08:11 AM
 
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This author has just reached the absolute bottom of her barrel by referring to those who question vaccines as holocaust deniers (a charge which carries a penalty in some countries) and flat - earthers (I have actually been to that website, but I don't buy it :))  Since she has no intelligent response to the charges she'll deflect attention from this fact and characterize an anti-vaxer as the scum of humanity or, at least a little better, a complete idiot.

 

She's clean out of ammo.


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#16 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 08:48 AM
 
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I meant the attitude in the article posted, or specifically, the flat-out discounting of any opinion that doesn't agree with hers. Really any attitude that "the other side" has no valid reason for their beliefs and are "delusional" or otherwise uninformed bugs me like crazy. In my opinion, that's why the Vax forum (including all the subforums) is so awesome: it's a chance to really delve into the research and the opinions from both sides, leading to strong decisions and a better appreciation of where others are coming from.
Sorry if that came out totally wrong, and thanks for giving me a chance to explain! I hope this doesn't come out way wrong, too, though I wouldn't be surprised if it did! lol.gif

I believe that I was the one who said the author was delusional. I'm all for discussing the issues but i'm not reducing any side of the debate to anything. Anyone who flat out claims that vaccines CAN NOT CAUSE REACTIONS is delusional. Defintion of delusional: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence. There is evidence that vaccines CAN cause harm, just like there is evidence that the earth is not flat.  Even the most staunchly provaccine advocates acknowledge harm is possible. They claim it is extremely rare (I may disagree with this sentiment) but they still know that it is a possibility even if they feel the chance is remote. 


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#17 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 09:34 AM
 
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If people interpret evidence/research/studies/statistics differently, I don't feel it's ok to call them delusional, neither in INV nor Mindful Vax. The conversation needs to focus on the issues, not the people.

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#18 of 18 Old 11-29-2012, 11:17 AM
 
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If people interpret evidence/research/studies/statistics differently, I don't feel it's ok to call them delusional, neither in INV nor Mindful Vax. The conversation needs to focus on the issues, not the people.

I'm not disagreeing that the conversation should focus of the issue not the person but the original post was about the author and her opinion piece and what she is saying about non-vaxers. She made a statement that vaccine reactions do not happen - ever. IMO this has nothing to do with interpretation of research, statistics or studies. This is simply a false statement because we all know that they do happen - even rarely. It's not a judgement. I agree that if she made a statement that based on all of the research that she had seen, that she felt that vaccine reactions are extremely rare and that the risk of not vaccinating was very high. This is an interpretation - not flat out denial of facts. If I were to come on here and make a statement that I thought the earth was flat and there is plenty of verifiable, scientific research to indicate that in fact the earth is round, I wouldn't be making an interpretation, Id be delusional as per the definition. But I suppose this can be construed as being unkind so I take it back winky.gif


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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