Pharma shills - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Do you think there are pharma shills on the vaccine forum?
yes - definitely! 12 28.57%
maybe 9 21.43%
no 21 50.00%
other (ok, this one might require an explanation - be careful!) 0 0%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Poll.

 

Just answer the poll - no response required (indeed it is probably better if you do not answer - we could get into UAV territory).

 

Do you think there are pharma shills on the vax forum?


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#2 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 07:49 AM
 
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For the sake of clarification, a pharma shill is someone who is paid by pharmacuetical companies (or others) with financial interest in encouraging sales of vaccines or western prescription or OTC medicine, right?

I'm guessing that would fall under the definition of spam, and I have definitely banned a fair share of viagra sales people. Also, I am fairly certain that none of our advertisers or insiders are associated with pharmaceutical companies.

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#3 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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For the sake of clarification, a pharma shill is someone who is paid by pharmacuetical companies (or others) with financial interest in encouraging sales of vaccines or western prescription or OTC medicine, right?
 

Yes - correct.  

 

From wikipedia:

 

 

"Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that he is an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom he is secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology, to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed)."


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#4 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:21 AM
 
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So this thread is about pharma shills and their potential actions on this board and not at all about any pro-vax members or specific posts or posting habits, because that would of course be against the user agreement. smile.gif

I guess a poll about whether or not folks think pharmaceutical representatives are lurking on MDC is within the UA; but it's a fine, fragile line, ladies, so proceed with caution!!

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#5 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So this thread is about pharma shills and their potential actions on this board and not at all about any pro-vax members or specific posts or posting habits, because that would of course be against the user agreement. smile.gif
I guess a poll about whether or not folks think pharmaceutical representatives are lurking on MDC is within the UA; but it's a fine, fragile line, ladies, so proceed with caution!!

Bolding mine.  You got it!  That is the intent of the poll. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#6 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:37 AM
 
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And I'm sure this poll will be completely accurate and unbiased, considering what section it's in.
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#7 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And I'm sure this poll will be completely accurate and unbiased, considering what section it's in.

I am not conducting a study, Rachel.  I am interested in the opinion of other non-vaxxers.  

 

I also do not want a shrill debate or finger pointing on the topic, hence why it is not in vaccine debate.  It is not an issue for debate - it is pretty much a yes/no/maybe question.

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#8 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:48 AM
 
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And I'm sure this poll will be completely accurate and unbiased, considering what section it's in.

ROTFLMAO.gifseriously? 

 

ANYWAY. I know there have been in the past. A couple years ago I had one admit she was one to me via PM -  she was banned after a few posts anyway. They usually are and the shills/trolls are fairly easy to spot IMO and never last for more than a few posts because they cannot or will not follow the UA. 


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#9 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:49 AM
 
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Maybe.

I'm trying to proceed on forums with the same level of caution that I use offline, assuming neither the inherent goodness nor the inherent nefariousness of anybody and trying to walk that fine line between naive Pollyanna and cynical Scrooge. Some cases make me raise my eyebrow more than others, but I keep all possibilities about all people open. Since it's impossible to deny that the Internet has shills, why wouldn't they be here? MDC would be such fertile ground, such an obvious choice..

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#10 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:51 AM
 
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If the post is only about pharma reps lurking, as per Mosaic's guidelines, then they would not be shills because they would not be trying to "encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed)".  If it is about people who are participating in the forum, then it is about current posters and is against the rules.  I respectfully request that the mods re-evaluate this thread.


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#11 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

ROTFLMAO.gifseriously? 

 

They usually are and the shills/trolls are fairly easy to spot IMO and never last for more than a few posts because they cannot or will not follow the UA. 

Huh.  I think trolls (and not the kind from TWWS) are pretty easy to spot. They just want to make trouble.

 

Shills might be more invested in bringing people over to the dark side (or light side, depending on your POV smile.gif) and a little more subtle.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#12 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If the post is only about pharma reps lurking, as per Mosaic's guidelines, then they would not be shills because they would not be trying to "encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed)".  If it is about people who are participating in the forum, then it is about current posters and is against the rules.  I respectfully request that the mods re-evaluate this thread.

 

Mosaic did not say lurking.  She said "Pharma shills and their potential actions on this board."


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#13 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe.
I'm trying to proceed on forums with the same level of caution that I use offline, assuming neither the inherent goodness nor the inherent nefariousness of anybody and trying to walk that fine line between naive Pollyanna and cynical Scrooge. Some cases make me raise my eyebrow more than others, but I keep all possibilities about all people open.

 

"Maybe" was my vote as well.

 

A year ago I would have voted no.

 

It can be really hard to figure out what's what on the internet.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#14 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

Mosaic did not say lurking.  She said "Pharma shills and their potential actions on this board."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post

So this thread is about pharma shills and their potential actions on this board and not at all about any pro-vax members or specific posts or posting habits, because that would of course be against the user agreement. smile.gif
I guess a poll about whether or not folks think pharmaceutical representatives are lurking on MDC is within the UA; but it's a fine, fragile line, ladies, so proceed with caution!!

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#15 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I missed that part.  None-the-less lurking can mean lurking (as in reading and not posting) or it could just mean "are here."

 

Mosaic?


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#16 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:15 AM
 
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I think the best way to make an informed decision about this is to give an example in the OP.  I don't think I've come across anything as of late that I would considered a pharmaceutical representative but maybe I have and I just haven't been paying attention. 

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#17 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:17 AM
 
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If the post is only about pharma reps lurking, as per Mosaic's guidelines, then they would not be shills because they would not be trying to "encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed)".  If it is about people who are participating in the forum, then it is about current posters and is against the rules.  I respectfully request that the mods re-evaluate this thread.

If you read their posts on other sites, ie commenting on anti-vax blogs, facebook etc, they aren't spamming or trying to sell a product. They are very easy to spot because of the inflammatory content of their posts, no real arugements just insults. No one has said regular posters are pharma shills.

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#18 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:49 AM
 
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Poll.

 

Just answer the poll - no response required (indeed it is probably better if you do not answer - we could get into UAV territory).

 

Do you think there are pharma shills on the vax forum?

Why would pharma shills hang out a board that is incredibly anti vax?  If they were looking to boost profits they'd go hang out on baby center or just work on new ad campaigns.  It would be a huge waste of money for them to pay people to hang out here.


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#19 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:53 AM
 
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Why would pharma shills hang out a board that is incredibly anti vax?  If they were looking to boost profits they'd go hang out on baby center or just work on new ad campaigns.  It would be a huge waste of money for them to pay people to hang out here.

 

That is exactly my first thought.  I makes no logical sense that they'd come here because it would be an incredible uphill battle.  Instead, they would seek out more mainstream "on the fence" people.


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#20 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 09:58 AM
 
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Dear pharma shills: if you're here, trust me, you're wasting your time.
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#21 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:00 AM
 
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If you read their posts on other sites, ie commenting on anti-vax blogs, facebook etc, they aren't spamming or trying to sell a product. They are very easy to spot because of the inflammatory content of their posts, no real arugements just insults. No one has said regular posters are pharma shills.

 

Wait... they actually pay people to leave random insults? What in the world is supposed to be the point of that?

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#22 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:06 AM
 
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I wouldn't describe the MDC vax forum, with all of its subforums, as "incredibly anti-vax."

This is very much a public venue viewable by pros, antis, in-betweens, and undecideds. This would be an optimal place to get a message out about vaccines. The pro-vaxxers wouldn't be here if they thought otherwise. But then, I can't confirm with any concrete certainty that there are shills lurking and posting...nor can any of you no-voters confirm that this forum is shill-free.

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#23 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:09 AM
 
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I wouldn't describe the MDC vax forum, with all of its subforums, as "incredibly anti-vax."
This is very much a public venue viewable by pros, antis, in-betweens, and undecideds. This would be an optimal place to get a message out about vaccines. The pro-vaxxers wouldn't be here if they thought otherwise. But then, I can't confirm with any concrete certainty that there are shills lurking and posting...nor can any of you no-voters confirm that this forum is shill-free.

 

 

Just in this forum?  Because I started off in a DDC. 

 

Looks like there have been some votes already...

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#24 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Why would pharma shills hang out a board that is incredibly anti vax?  If they were looking to boost profits they'd go hang out on baby center or just work on new ad campaigns.  It would be a huge waste of money for them to pay people to hang out here.

bolding mine…..

 

I am not saying I disagree with you, but (and to play devils advocate):

 

If you are a vaccine pharma shill, it may make sense to hang out here as there are people here who do not vax.  There is no point in hanging out at babycentre where there are few non-vaxxers to try and convert.  MDC was once (still is?) the biggest alternative parenting site on the web.   

 

If vaccine pharma shills exist at all, this would be fertile grounds.

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#25 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:16 AM
 
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By"here," yes, I mean this forum..with a pro-vax message.

Kathy didn't clarify until a later post, but it sounds like she intended for this poll to be in the non-vax support forum for a reason---namely, that it would be a support-only thread for non-vaxxers to talk amongst themselves. So most of us who voted shouldn't have. redface.gif It's not an unreasonable request to honor.
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#26 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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By"here," yes, I mean this forum..with a pro-vax message.
Kathy didn't clarify until a later post, but it sounds like she intended for this poll to be in the non-vax support forum for a reason---namely, that it would be a support-only thread for non-vaxxers to talk amongst themselves. So most of us who voted shouldn't have. redface.gif It's not an unreasonable request to honor.

 

 

I think that alone is inflammatory.  I could post something similar in the other forum and it would then cause an issue.  I won't do that as it's not in the best interest of anyone.  And I'd like to  see how far this will go.  And NO, she did not say people in the middle could not vote. 

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#27 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:23 AM
 
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I don't think companies are really that concerned about converting people who have chosen not to vaccinate. They're such a tiny, tiny percentage of the overall population, what would be the point?

I mean are they already making plenty of money or not?
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#28 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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dbl post

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#29 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am not conducting a study, Rachel.  I am interested in the opinion of other non-vaxxers.  

 

I also do not want a shrill debate or finger pointing on the topic, hence why it is not in vaccine debate.  It is not an issue for debate - it is pretty much a yes/no/maybe question.

I am quoting myself to clarify.

 

I posted it here because:

 

a) I was mostly seeking the opinion/support of non-vaxxers.  

 

I am, on occasion, quite annoyed by statement of pro-vaxxers.  Anger, though, is a difficult emotion…and a misplaced one if the person I am angry with is a shill.  Shills are not worthy of one moment of my time.  So, I wanted to figure out if shills are here (ergo the poll, and I know full well when I posted it that everyone would vote).  I would also like to figure out how to identify a shill, which is a much more difficult thing to discuss (and could well end in a locked thread).  I think it is a problematic one as well, because what one person sees as simple love of western medicine or over-arguing out of frustrations, another might see as "shill".  It might be why the maybe vote has 4 votes out of 18.

 

That being said, threads have a mind of there own, and if this one is mostly populated by pro-vaxxers, so be it. 

 

b)  I did not want a shrill debate.  This is a support forum, and yes, I wanted the protection of that.

 

I do not care if pro, non, sel/delayed vote.  I don't control who votes, anyway.  I would prefer it , though, if people who have no real experience of the vax forums skip voting.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#30 of 58 Old 12-06-2012, 11:14 AM
 
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Well I know you don't want to debate but I think you got a good portion of people who do believe yes there are shills here or maybe it's a possibility.  That's quite obvious that it's a belief... it's been stated numerous times before. 

 

You know what... sure why not there could be shills here.  There could be people here who don't actually care about anything other than pushing an agenda.  Why not? 

 

I do believe you're directing this into violating UAV territory.  But who really cares at this point. 

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