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#1 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My doggie   love.gif

 

She is a corgidor (half corgi, half labrador) and about 1 years old.  We got her from the SPCA, so no one is really sure of her age or breed.  We got her about 3 months ago.

 

She came fixed, and she came with all the puppy shots.  The "fixed" I was thrilled with, the shots, a little less so.  I would have liked to look a few things up first.  Any sites or book recommendations?  I am somewhat of a newbie to thinking critically about vaccines and pets.

 

She still needs her rabies shot (they do not do it at the SPCA as a vet needs to administer it and they use vet techs????  or so they told me). It might also be a way to ensure we visit a vet.   I think it is illegal here not to get your dog their rabies shot.  Sigh.  I do think it is the only pet shot that is mandatory.  

 

I strongly suspect most of the kennels around here also require pets to be up to date on their vaxxes.  I have used my mother in the past to look after pets when we went away, but it is a PITA for anything but long trips.  My mother lives 2.5 hours away, so going to get my mother or bring the pet/s to my mother for an overnight trip is nutty.  I don't think the kennel situation will cause me to vax though, I will just get creative looking for pet sitters or other solutions.

 

So tell me about your pet, your vet and vaccines issues.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#2 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 07:58 AM
 
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Aww Kathy, she is lovely!

 

No, I do not vaccinate my dog, Oscar, English Mastiff, age 2.

 

 

 

My 22 yo DD always takes him if I need it, so he is never boarded in kennels. She has his grandma, 10 yo old Thora. I really recommend joining the yahoo group novaxk9s. The posters there are very knowledgable about dogs and vaxes.

 

(This photo is a few months old, and we have since repaired the fence!)


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#3 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 09:01 AM
 
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We used to have a dog - had to get him a new home about a year after my DS was born due to him not being great with small children. But I get to receive updates on him and have visited him a couple of times. We had 3 cats and now are down to 1. No I did not vaccinate any of them (except the dog for rabies as it is illegal not to have tags in this state). The cats I don't do the rabies shot for even though it is "illegal" not to. The cats were all indoor cats. Its ridiculous. When I take them to the vet (which is rarely) they make me sign a waiver that states I understand if the cat bites anyone it will have to be quarantined. Fine


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#4 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 09:24 AM
 
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We have 2 kitties and a rough collie, and they only get the rabies one every 3 years to comply with local laws. The cats are indoor/outdoor and local laws don't allow for quarantine, but rather they kill the biting animal and dissect the brain to look for rabies. It's horrible.

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#5 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 09:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nia82 View Post

We have 2 kitties and a rough collie, and they only get the rabies one every 3 years to comply with local laws. The cats are indoor/outdoor and local laws don't allow for quarantine, but rather they kill the biting animal and dissect the brain to look for rabies. It's horrible.

Ewwww that sis terrible. If that was the case here I would do the vax at least for our current kitty as she can be fiesty. Our other kitty who is no longer with us, I wouldn't because she would never bite any one no matter what. 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#6 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Mizram - cute guy!

 

I looked up the rules for rabies around here and it is not too bad.  

 

It looks like if your pet (dog or cat) is involved in a rabies incident, and is unvaccinated, you may have to pay a fine for every day it stays unvaxxxed after the incidence and the animal will have to be quaratined for 10 days (at home, but under  vet care) to ensure the pet is healthy.

 

I may give her the rabies vaccines - have not decided yet - but plan to skip the other ones until I have done a lot more research. I have done none at this point on pets and vaccines.

 

It turns out the rabies law does apply to cats in this province.  While I do not doubt my 6 year cat had a rabies shot as a kitten, I do not think he has had any booster.  Ah, well, he is an indoor cat.  Almost exclusively.  I think I will take my chances. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#7 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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I have done little research, and only for cats. I think rabies is nasty. But  I would vaccinate less than every 3 years and rather do titers. There was a lot of evidence that showed titers remain high for longer than 3 years. But darn laws of course. Why wouldn't be a high titer sufficient proof for immunity?! With dogs I didn't read much. I'm a cat person and DH added the dog last year. He wanted all the puppy vaccines because of that parvo stuff. The local vets only offer 6in1, but surprisingly enough our military vet doesn't believe in that one and only did the parvo/adeno/distemper. We agree though to never repeat those, only rabies from here on out. They want to give those 7in1 shots or 6in1 (both exist) yearly to all dogs, it's rather mind-boggling.

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#8 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
 
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There is a rabies challenge study that's beeen ongoing for a few yrs now which hopes to increase the 3yr booster to 5, and then 7.  Speculation and early testing has shown it to last 10+ yrs in any animal that is vaxxed while over a yr, for puppies under 1yr they typically need a booster to achieve immunity.

 

http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

 

Of all the animal vaccines rabies is the most dangerous and even most traditional vets are aware of the potential side effects and risks, but with rabies itself being lethal 100% of the time, there's not many options.

 

As far as exemptions, in the US there are 13 states that 'allow' for rabies exemption, although I know here in CT it's really a losing battle since the state vet has an agenda and refuses to send paperwork for the vets to fill out, never mind sign and allow the exemption herself.  I know this bc I'm dealing with them now for my "unvaxxed" 7.5 yr old Australian Shepherd who acquired a tick born disease (anaplasma) a few yrs ago and was subject to overvaxxing as a pup so I refused to booster her rabies this year while she was dealing with a hot spot.  I spent $200 to have her titered for my own piece of mind, her levels would be considered more than sufficient were she human but there are no 'acceptable' titer levels in animals.

 

As for others, I backed down to the bare minimum with the last puppy and my breeder has also stepped down her vaxing protocols on puppies as well.  I am considering skiping the traditional parvo/distemper as well for future pups. 

 

This is the protocol many vets and breeders are moving to in spite of the AVMA pushing for otherwise: http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html.  It was designed by Dr Jean Dodds and relys very heavily on breeders NOT vaxxing puppies before 8 weeks as was (and for many still is) so popular.  Which now leaves those responsible breeders in a tight spot - do they release these pups unvaxxed at 8wks (minimum legal age for sale and socially the earliest they should leave littermates and mom) and educate buyers on the options, or do they hold then until 9 or 10wks?  I know breeders who do both, sometimes depends on the buyer.

 

Cats in our house got what ever vaxxes they got in rescue and most likely will never step foot in a vets office.  All my animals eat raw diets and so the need for vet care is minimal to none and I'm versed enough in holistic and herbal animal remedies that I can do most things here rather than stressing them out going for a car ride (well the cats, the dogs love the car!).

 

I wish rescues would titer but it's time consuming and quicker/cheaper to just shoot up everything that comes through the door unless they are owner surrendered and come with paperwork and proof of vaccines.  New transport laws also require these vaccines to be done within a specific time frame before transport as in the case of dogs being shipppied from the southern US up north in an effort to lessen the spread of parvo that often comes up from the warmer climates.

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#9 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 01:29 PM
 
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All my animals are vaccinated annually.  My friend believed that the vaccines were being done to line vets pockets and only got the first one done - no boosters.  Her cat and all her kittens died of cat flu.  We almost lost our dog to kennel cough when we first got him - a supposedly mild illness, but he became seriously ill shortly after we got him, as a rescued stray.  So he gets that vaccine too, though it's not one of the recommended ones (unless they go to kennels which he doesn't.)

 

Although our dog has serious, life threatening allergies, he's not had a reaction to vaccines.  But I have no clue what I'm going to do with him next time he needs flea treatment as he reacts to the drops.

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#10 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 01:35 PM
 
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Yeah I hated that with the breeders too. The only rough collie breeder in our vicinity (aka 5h drive down, 5h back home) makes you take the puppies at 7-8 weeks and they come with a 6in1 shot at 6 weeks. I couldn't convince her otherwise. We were however set on the breed for its friendliness, cat loving traits, easy to train etc...

 

Which reminds me, what do you guys do about deworming and heartworm?

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#11 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Although our dog has serious, life threatening allergies, he's not had a reaction to vaccines.  But I have no clue what I'm going to do with him next time he needs flea treatment as he reacts to the drops.

I had very good luck with a flea comb plus drowning the little suckers. Get a glass of water, put a few drops of dish-soap in the glass, use a flea or nit comb to get the flea off the animal.  Use a pin to get fleas caught between the bristles of the comb, and scrape the fleas into the soapy water.

 

I had used advantage on the cat (and it did not work! It has in the past) and the flea combs did.  Good thing he liked to be combed. Make sure to comb the animal for fleas every few days for a week or two after you spot the last flea - you do not want to the nits to hatch and re-infest things. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#12 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 05:06 PM
 
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We only do the rabies shot as it is required here. When we rescued our dog she already was fixed and had been given her puppy shots as well. When we need to go away somewhere we always use a pet walker/sitter, we have found they are not as strict about vaccines, but they do insist the dog be registered with the county.


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#13 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 05:11 PM
 
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I haven't read all the responses, but other than rabies we vaccinate our pets for the first 3-5 years and then stop. There's evidence showing that's all they need and that dogs and cats are way over vaccinated and it leads to things like cancer. I do think those initial shots are important, though.

Also, while you have to get rabies every 1-3 years depending on the shot and your local laws, it's really good for more like ten. That's not much practical use because of the way laws are written, but if you go a little over and god forbid anything happened fido is probably ok. Also one or the other is shown to cause tumors at the injection site, especially in cats, so that may be something you want to ask about.

I do think routine vet care is important because pets can't complain if something hurts. A vet that knows your pet can help you catch issues you may not otherwise.

Good luck with your new addition!
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#14 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 05:14 PM
 
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Here's some information you may want to print out and share with your vet.

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-69701988/
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#15 of 59 Old 01-03-2013, 05:42 PM
 
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All my animals are vaccinated annually.  My friend believed that the vaccines were being done to line vets pockets and only got the first one done - no boosters.  Her cat and all her kittens died of cat flu.  We almost lost our dog to kennel cough when we first got him - a supposedly mild illness, but he became seriously ill shortly after we got him, as a rescued stray.  So he gets that vaccine too, though it's not one of the recommended ones (unless they go to kennels which he doesn't.)

 

Although our dog has serious, life threatening allergies, he's not had a reaction to vaccines.  But I have no clue what I'm going to do with him next time he needs flea treatment as he reacts to the drops.

These are vaccine reactions.

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#16 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 07:20 AM
 
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Ugh a flea comb on a rough collie would take hours, literally like 12 hours. She has A LOT of fur. We currently live in 8 months of winter, so we never even needed flea protection (they are rarely seen in summer), we did some heartworm stuff (one every other months - there are only ivermectin products and she has the MDR1 gene). But we might move to a hot place. Then we need flea stuff... Does revolution work? And what do people do in the South about heartworm?

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#17 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ugh a flea comb on a rough collie would take hours, literally like 12 hours. She has A LOT of fur.  Then we need flea stuff... Does revolution work? 

The flea comb idea is definitely animal size dependent, and works better with animals that like to be combed.  

 

anecdotal:  I do find Advantage, Revolution, Frontline, etc usually work (except the one time they did not - which lead to my love of the flea comb), but I never loved using it.  I cannot imagine it is all that safe (most are pesticides, right?).  Here is an article -it is from PETA whom I do not always love, but it had some good info on fleas:  http://www.peta.org/issues/Companion-Animals/flea-control-safe-solutions.aspx


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#18 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 08:04 AM
 
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The flea comb idea is definitely animal size dependent, and works better with animals that like to be combed.  

 

anecdotal:  I do find Advantage, Revolution, Frontline, etc usually work (except the one time they did not - which lead to my love of the flea comb), but I never loved using it.  I cannot imagine it is all that safe (most are pesticides, right?).  Here is an article -it is from PETA whom I do not always love, but it had some good info on fleas:  http://www.peta.org/issues/Companion-Animals/flea-control-safe-solutions.aspx

I never used the pesticide products (frontline ect) on any of my animals. Would you put that stuff on your scalp? Yucky and toxic. No thank you. I used this product and it has always been very effective for me. http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Sentry-Natural-Defense-Flea-Tick-Squeeze-On-for-Dogs/207000.aspx

 

They have formulas for cats and dogs of different sizes. 

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I used this product and it has always been very effective for me. http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Sentry-Natural-Defense-Flea-Tick-Squeeze-On-for-Dogs/207000.aspx

 

They have formulas for cats and dogs of different sizes. 

 Thanks for the recommendation.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#20 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 08:55 AM
 
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Sorry to repeat, but what about heartworm? It seems to be big with dogs.

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#21 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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I had a dog treated for heart worms and its pretty awful. The treatment can easily kill them. Depending on your area the stats for contracting are also pretty grim.
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#22 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 09:18 AM
 
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Sorry to repeat, but what about heartworm? It seems to be big with dogs.

I never gave my dogs conventional heart work medications. They are toxic and there are alternatives. This is a great article on heartworm

 

http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

 

 

 

Quote:
According to the American Veterinary Medical Association, 65% of adverse drug reactions and 48% of all reported deaths resulting from drug reactions are caused by heartworm preventatives

I used this for HW prevention with my dogs

 

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-HW-Protect-Herbal-Formula/999068.aspx


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#23 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 10:01 AM
 
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These are vaccine reactions.

With respect, no they're not.  He had them when we got him, as a stray pup with no previous vet care and we didn't vaccinate for a while due to him being so ill.

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#24 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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Thanks for those articles Marnica! We have been back and forth over the heartworm pills issue with our dog, and hopefully this will help us come to a decision.


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#25 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 12:09 PM
 
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Thank you Marnica! We might move to a hotter climate where heartworm is prevalent. But since our poor dog has the MDR1 gene, ivermectin is especially bad for her. That's why I low-dosed it to begin with, she seemed fine but still... I'd rather try the natural stuff. Any track record for it?

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#26 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
 
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Thank you Marnica! We might move to a hotter climate where heartworm is prevalent. But since our poor dog has the MDR1 gene, ivermectin is especially bad for her. That's why I low-dosed it to begin with, she seemed fine but still... I'd rather try the natural stuff. Any track record for it?

Any information I found on the product I used was anecdotal of course as most things are with herbal remedies. If you look at the ingredients, many of them are well known and well documented herbs used for worms and parasites of all kinds


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#27 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 12:28 PM
 
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Thanks... I'm just scared for her in case we move to like... Texas. How come flea and heartworm was nothing ever mentioned back home in Europe? Our cats never had vaccines (rabies is gone in my home country), flea control meds nor heartworm meds (local vet tried to sell me heartworm meds for the cats). They lived fine like every other cat in town. The biggest threat were and are still car accidents to them.

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#28 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 01:47 PM
 
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We are contemplating a move to TX, so thanks for that heart worm link.

 

We've never given our dog conventional heart worm or flea drops.  She gets Natural Defense during tick season, and I use Molly's herbal wormer.  Both seem quite effective.

 

Moya came with puppy shots.  We did the initial rabies after that, and she vomited severely.  I'm not doing it again.  I feel like vaccine reactions must run in our family, human and otherwise!  The cat (outdoor) got the one and three year rabies but now I'm done.  My chickens got vaccinated in the egg only because I was too lazy to do the research.  ;)

 

For those wondering about kennels, yes, they might need them all, but there are a lot of folks who do small time dog-sitting in their homes.  Our groomer does it (she just required rabies.)  A friend who works at Guiding Eyes does it too, and she didn't ask for a thing.  Ask around. 
 


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#29 of 59 Old 01-04-2013, 03:52 PM
 
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For fleas and ticks:  garlic, brewers yeast, diatomaceous earth (food not pool grade) can be added to food to repel from the inside out.  Topicals rely on the pests biting the animal and then dying as a result of ingestion.  But, like some of you experienced, the bugs become resistant to the chemicals and so you would need to switch brands for them to work, ie go from frontline to advantage or vise versa.  Better option - diatomaceous earth on the skin.  It's soft to the touch to use, but at a microscopic level it's needle sharp so it pierces the skin of fleas causing them to dehydrate and die - they can't become immune to that.  I use a garlic supplement from springtime inc http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs and in the last 4 years have not found a single tick that has bitten my dogs and we live in CT, the birthplace of Lyme disease, heavily infested with ticks, and we hike often.  My older dog with anaplasma contracted it while on frontline while she was younger and I pulled ticks off them almost daily.  If you have a flea problem, sprinkle diatomaceous earth outside, and in the house in dark areas like under furniture, in the wells under couch cushions, on carpets - fleas lay eggs in dark areas.

 

A proper diet will also naturally repel many bugs - pests feed on the weak.  No grains, as much raw meats as possible. 

 

Cider vinegar works to sooth flea bites.

 

Agreed to the only natural pet link for natural HW medication.  If you do go with the prescription meds, only do them during times when weather is warm enough to support mosquitos.  MDR1 dogs can use interceptor, but avoid heartguard and any drugs listed here: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/drugs.aspx.  They are the only lab in the US liscensed to test for the MDR1 gene.

 

I used to use the Natural Defense on my dogs but beware of reactions to that too - some dogs are highly sensitive to the high concentrations of clove oil.  One of mine broke out in hives and ran in circles until we bathed him.  But if it works for you the smell is fantastic!

 

Only Natural Pet also offers herbal dewormers http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Para-Gone-Herbal-Formula/999022.aspx.  I've successfully treated giardia and whips numerous times with this.

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Originally Posted by Silverring View Post

With respect, no they're not.  He had them when we got him, as a stray pup with no previous vet care and we didn't vaccinate for a while due to him being so ill.

I wouldn't vaccinate a dog with allergies as they will only intensify.  My dogs had KC as pups as well and they too nearly died from a combination of a virulent strain and overvaxxing.  I would NEVER vax for KC as it's less than 50% effective in most cases and can be better treated with vit c and garlic.  What do you feed your dog? As that will have a major affect on allergies.

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