"Proof" to offer others when they ask about this.... - Mothering Forums
I'm Not Vaccinating > "Proof" to offer others when they ask about this....
orthodoxmom's Avatar orthodoxmom 11:57 AM 02-16-2013

Someone suggested I post this here....origingally I put it under the debate forum...I guess that wasn't the best option...

 

So I am totally against vaccines.  I've read enough and understand enough that my dh and I totally agree that vaccnies are not necessary and are more dangerous than good.... but then I get faced with questions from other people in the medical professsion (dh is a doctor but he's not always around when they ask me...) and I always feel backed up against the wall about it.  I know it's my right and I have no problem sticking to what I believe but  I'd like to be better equipped with answers.  The most recent episode involved someone telling me she'd like to see peer reviewed studies of vaccinations being dangerous or more dangerous than the disease itself or that it causes SIDS, autism, etc.  And she wanted to know that if the vaccinations are truly causing these diseases, then why can't anyone come forth and prove that unvaccinated children do NOT get suffer from SIDS, autism, etc.                                  I personally feel that the vaccnines are not the one and only cause of these diseases and that's what I told her...that they are, however, a MAJOR factor and that my feelings on peer reviewed studies are not that they are the only (if at all) reliable source to verify something.  But I wish I had something more to offer than my opinion on that.  I wish I could offer her the names of studies or sources that demonstrate some of what she's asking because I think she's sort of on the fence on the issue and may be swayed if I had the 'right' answers for her.    So I'm wondering if anyone knows of some source out there I could offer that may be of some help.  ??   Anyone?? 



kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 01:05 PM 02-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxmom View Post

 

 

  The most recent episode involved someone telling me she'd like to see peer reviewed studies of vaccinations being dangerous or more dangerous than the disease itself or that it causes SIDS, autism, etc.  And she wanted to know that if the vaccinations are truly causing these diseases, then why can't anyone come forth and prove that unvaccinated children do NOT get suffer from SIDS, autism, etc.                                

 

Bolding mine.  This is somewhat of a simplistic request because it does not take into account the prevalence and contagiousness of a disease or the effectiveness of a vaccine. 

 

Let's look at tetanus. Tetanus is (in my opinion) more dangerous than the vaccine. An unvaccinated person pre-vaccine era had a 1/250 000 of getting tetanus.  The current chance of getting tetanus in the USA is 1/12 000 000.  Most of the folks who get tetanus are are drug users or diabetics.  Proper wound management significantly reduces the already low chance you will get tetanus.

 

So…what is an unvaxxed person chance today of getting Tetanus in the USA?  Somewhere between 1/250 000 and 1/12  000 000.  Comparing the vaccine to something you literally might have only a one in a million chance of getting makes no sense.

 

Italics mine.  

 

There are no well constructed studies that compare unvaccinated to vaccinated children.  Tell her you welcome such a study as well, but until then, it is difficult to feel you have enough information to consider vaccinating.  

 

 

 

I personally feel that the vaccnines are not the one and only cause of these diseases and that's what I told her...that they are, however, a MAJOR factor and that my feelings on peer reviewed studies are not that they are the only (if at all) reliable source to verify something.  But I wish I had something more to offer than my opinion on that.  I wish I could offer her the names of studies or sources that demonstrate some of what she's asking because I think she's sort of on the fence on the issue and may be swayed if I had the 'right' answers for her.    So I'm wondering if anyone knows of some source out there I could offer that may be of some help.  ??   Anyone?? 

 

This is my 2 cents:  asking for peer reviewed articles is somewhat of a game they play.  You will produce a study, and the other side will proceed to critique it to death.  Sometimes their critiques are legitimate, but sometimes they are out to lunch.  They play the offensive and you play the defensive.  I would suggest instead that you take control of the conversation.  Let them know that almost all studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies and as such are quite likely to have conflict of interest issues.  Let them know that the CDC and FDA has pharmaceutical reps sitting on advisory committees.  Let them know that selection as well as other bias mean it is very difficult for us to get a true picture around vaccination, and until then you are vax-free.  It is not our job to convince them vaccines are dangerous, it is their job to convince us vaccines are safe, and given the way studies and the entire system is designed, that is not possible.  

 

That being said - a couple of studies or pages I like:

 

1.   CDC pink book - particularly the appendix which shows just how unlikely someone is to get  a VAD.

 

2.  Ben Goldacre (one of their own - tee-heee) explaining all the crapola that goes on in the pharmaceutical industry around such things as selection bias.   It is an entertaining and educational video.  http://www.badscience.net/2012/09/i-did-a-talk-at-ted-about-drug-companies-and-hidden-data/

 

3.  Cochrane on the flu vaccine in healthy adults

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001269.pub4/abstract

 

4.http://www.columbiajournal.ca/12-05/P7VaccineWars.html  (study is the footnotes - aluminum and autism)

 

5.http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/2/365.full   (on pertussis effectiveness)


orthodoxmom's Avatar orthodoxmom 04:44 PM 02-16-2013
This is excellent. Thank you.
No, its not my hob to convince them but if I can it helps at least one more child (hers) wink1.gif so its worth the attempt.
You've given me an abundance of thoughts and info. I really appreciate it. Thanks again!
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