The Herd Immunity Myth and How it Pits Parent Against Parent - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)

Mirzam, I think it's perfectly appropriate for this thread--but might get more views if it gets a thread of its own.

Taximom5 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-05-2013, 07:23 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,231
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

I thought this article was appropriate to post in this thread:

 

17 Examples of Admitted Vaccine Failure

One of those 17 stories involves me - sort of.

 

I was 17 in 1989 when a large measles outbreak swept through Quebec.

 

The school board had a rule that anyone who could not show proof of immunity to vaccines would be asked to leave school if a measles case happened in their district.  The government was being quite picky about what constituted proof - your vaccine record had to be signed, dated and stamped on each entry.  My doctor only signed once for the whole book - so my vaccine did not count.  I was revaccinated - along with a huge portion of my school.  If I was to estimate I would say 1/3.  There is no way 1/3 of my class was unvaxxed as babies.  I would bet real money it was less than 10 % (and very probably less than 5%).  So whenever a government agency says "60% of cases were in individuals who were not fully vaxxed" I always wonder what they mean exactly.  What they really mean is 60% of cases were in individuals who could not prove to our standard that they were immunised."

 

I think non-vaxxed, undervaxxed and "can't prove to the government you were vaccinated" all get lumped together -which is to the benefit of those trying to prove vaccines work and that epidemics are among the unvaccinated - but is not necessarily the whole picture.

 

Here is a paper out of Australia, showing a somewhat similar thing:

http://vaccinationdilemma.com/whooping-cough-australian-children-how-many-were-vaccinated.

 

"For the years 2008-2010, there were a total of 9333 cases of whooping cough reported in children aged 0-4 years. Among them were 754 who were either too young or otherwise not eligible to have been vaccinated, and 1497 for whom vaccine status was not known."

 

Why on earth is the status unknown so high???  I could get it being high in adults, but the Australia stats look at kids 0-4 year old.  

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,070
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
May I interject with another beef of mine about herd immunity? It's a classic case of blame-shifting. Why on earth aren't health care consumers baraging drug companies with demands to produce a more effective vaccine? Seriously. Where is the outrage? Can you think of one other consumer product whose failure to work sufficiently results in demanding that everyone else use it? Suddenly, Merck's vaccine failure turns into my responsibility...and Their rationale for taking away exemption rights, (in the US, anyway).

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is online now  
Old 03-06-2013, 12:45 AM
 
MamaMunchkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

May I interject with another beef of mine about herd immunity? It's a classic case of blame-shifting. Why on earth aren't health care consumers baraging drug companies with demands to produce a more effective vaccine? Seriously. Where is the outrage? Can you think of one other consumer product whose failure to work sufficiently results in demanding that everyone else use it? Suddenly, Merck's vaccine failure turns into my responsibility...and Their rationale for taking away exemption rights, (in the US, anyway).

 

Yup, absolutely - it's a diversion.  It's populist demagoguery at its best, or worst.  

 

It baffles me why anyone would be against more effective and safer vaxes - esp. if they're staunchly pro-vax.

MamaMunchkin is offline  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:52 AM
 
Fyrestorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 3,766
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaMunchkin View Post

 

Yup, absolutely - it's a diversion.  It's populist demagoguery at its best, or worst.  

 

It baffles me why anyone would be against more effective and safer vaxes - esp. if they're staunchly pro-vax.

 

I wonder if the disconnect comes from denial? If you want safer vaccines, you have to acknowledge that the ones that already exist are inherently not safe. 
 

Who wants to admit that?  It's the same reaction we see from people over many controversial parenting choices.  Insistence that their way is the best to the point where they stick their fingers in their ears, cover their eyes and sing La La La, rather than even listen to information that shows that there might be a better way.  People will defend their position.


Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
Fyrestorm is offline  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:40 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
I wonder if the disconnect comes from denial?

 

RE: vac denials - if it were highly visible (IMO here) as in an arm feel off after a shot - we would see an outcry, more mental issues (a host of really non-visible) is much easier to ignore (justify away)

 

 

 

 

Quote:
If you want safer vaccines, you have to acknowledge that the ones that already exist are inherently not safe. 
 

you answered that one! you can't have it both ways-that's way the known risks are in tiny print on a paper you have to ask to see


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:21 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,070
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post

I wonder if the disconnect comes from denial? If you want safer vaccines, you have to acknowledge that the ones that already exist are inherently not safe. 

 
Who wants to admit that?  It's the same reaction we see from people over many controversial parenting choices.  Insistence that their way is the best to the point where they stick their fingers in their ears, cover their eyes and sing La La La, rather than even listen to information that shows that there might be a better way.  People will defend their position.

When the US government called for a ban on thimerosol in vaccines, critics of the measure whined about how people would lose trust in vaccines. Great thinking. Let's keep the mercury. Anything to hold on to public trust. irked.gif

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is online now  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:25 PM
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)

i had rubella in 1964 at 4mos old..when i had kids and they tested me, last test in '96, i was 98% immune, so they said the blood test revealed.  I wonder how much if any immunity passed onto my kids?

emmy526 is offline  
 

Tags
Vaccinations
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off