Vegans, help! Family court--need evidence to support ethical objection - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 12 Old 03-25-2013, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The following is part of a post I created on the blended family forum, but I may end up having to represent myself in court on this case:

 

"I was served papers to appear in court a week from Tuesday.  I am in shock because my ex and I always worked things out amicably and I never had to seek legal representation before.  The two issues being brought to court are him demanding my unvaxed DDs get a pertussis shot to protect his wife's baby that is due to be born in a month, and him wanting my oldest to go to public middle school next yr (DDs currently attend a private Montessori school that we mutually agreed on."

 

 

I have a lot of evidence for the second issue but I am trying to research the first issue. I should add we are in PA and I have exemption forms that both my ex and I signed, stating our ethical objection (which falls under an umbrella religious exemption in our state).  Veganism is not my only ethical qualm with vaxing but it is the most tangible to find evidence for in a hurry.  I will also try to state my philosophical reasoning, but I could use some help finding info from neutral sources which state the non-vegan origin of the TDaP vaccine.

 

I have found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients

Clearly the Boostrix brand of TDaP is not vegan, but the Adacel brand of TDaP doesn't contain anything that looks obviously non-vegan.  However, I have no idea what a Mueller & ****** medium is--I'm guessing it involves animal proteins of some sort, but googling is not helping me find much info.  To make matters worse, I was served these papers while I was literally on my way to FL for a week's vacation.  I'm trying to do all this research and try to give my kids a vacation at the same time! Any help would be appreciated!


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#2 of 12 Old 03-25-2013, 06:50 PM
 
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"Undervaccinated Children Aged 7 through 10 Years

No data have been published regarding the safety or immunogenicity of Tdap in children aged 7 through 10 years who have never received pertussis-containing vaccines."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6001a4.htm

 

Various ingredients, not sure which may constitute vegan but you can look through them:

http://www.vaccinedecision.info/cgi-bin/viewcontent.cgi?article_id=57

 

"What is Modified Mueller and ****** medium?

The procedure involves the use of a variant and somewhat unstable strain of Clostridiium tetani and a culture medium containing a pancreatic digest of casein with additional cystine and tyrosine, beef heart infusion, glucose, and inorganic salts. A high concentration of iron must be provided."  Casein being a milk based protein, thus of animal origin.

http://penniwinkleb.wordpress.com/tag/the-pink-book/

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#3 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you sassyfirechick!  That is very helpful!


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#4 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 09:38 PM
 
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It might help to show the judge that the Tdap vaccine manufacturer admits in their advertisement, "It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants."

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#5 of 12 Old 03-26-2013, 10:36 PM
 
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Is there a way to prove the vaccine was tested on animals? Maybe that could help strengthen your vegan ethical objection. ? (I don't know if that would help or not, but it's a thought!)


 
 
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#6 of 12 Old 03-27-2013, 03:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Is there a way to prove the vaccine was tested on animals? Maybe that could help strengthen your vegan ethical objection. ? (I don't know if that would help or not, but it's a thought!)

tripedia uses bovine extract

 

 

Quote:
Corynebacterium diphtheriae cultures are grown in a modified Mueller and ****** medium.1 Clostridium tetani cultures are grown in 
a peptone-based medium containing a bovine extract

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm101580.pdf

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#7 of 12 Old 03-27-2013, 01:27 PM
 
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I can't help you but I just want to offer my wholehearted support, FWIW. I've been through the wringer of family court with my oldest and his father, and having all my power as a mother and citizen stripped from me for two years and that debacle is why I probably will never *legally* marry again. My poor boy was completely whole and healthy, and had never had a vaccination until he was two and a half, when his dad left, then kidnapped him, and then had him shot up with several things at once JUST TO SPITE ME. The child was sick for over a year, and has only seemed to recover real gut and immune health in the last year or so (he's nineteen now). 

Stick to your guns. Do what it takes but ALWAYS *LOOK* CALM and rational. Document everything. Pray. Stay strong. You're doing what's right. 

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#8 of 12 Old 03-27-2013, 01:50 PM
 
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I'm a "vaxer" so I hope you don't mind me posting here, but I wouldn't like some other woman telling me what to do with my kids either. Would it be possible to just keep your DD away from her and her baby for the next 3 months until their baby is vaccinated?

 

I'd try reasoning with them instead of the court because the judge isn't a doctor, chances are they'll side with her. 

 

I get that pregnant women are terrorized with all sorts of threats of the devastating effects of whooping cough but the chances of getting it from one specific unvaccinated family member are almost zero... she may also want to research HOW vaccines work and realize if your DD hasn't been vaccinated yet, it isn't going to help pregnant lady or her baby now. The vaccine now would only increase the almost zero chance of getting her or her baby sick. If she's actually concerned, the only solution at this point would be to avoid your DD. 

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#9 of 12 Old 03-27-2013, 02:25 PM
 
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I could be wrong - but is your child supposed to have to undergo a medical procedure for a baby in another family?  I did not think so.

 

If your husbands want a vaccine because he has changed his mind on vaccination- you might be in trouble

 

If your husband wants your daughters to get a vaccine to protect a member of the new family/pacify the new mom - I think that is a different story.  

 

It might come down to how he words things.  

 

I would also add that it a while to become up to dat e on pertussis.  heck, even just the first 3 in the series would take 4 months to complete.    The baby is due next month -even if you start the shot process now, your daughter will still be quite undervaxxed by the time the new baby comes.  The best way to deal with this might be to explain that pertussis shots take a while to kick in - and if they are worried, your daughter can stay away from the new baby till then.  Your ex can get a booster, and then he can meet your daughters for his usual visits away from the baby and home environment.  

 

The school is a separate issue - but you can almost always get an exemption if your kids go to public school.  

 

This is just me - but I might consider which one I was opposed to more (vaccines or change of schooling) and use that as a bargaining chip with the ex if he is amenable.  

 

Here is a link:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/777012_6


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#10 of 12 Old 04-05-2013, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks everyone.  I did attempt to reason with him before he pushed it to court.  I offered to keep DDs at my place more in the first 2 months or so and let them have DDs more in the subsequent months to make up for it.  I suggested having the girls always wash their hands before touching the baby and wear medical masks around the baby.  I asked them if we could get their titers checked for immunity and to precautionarily treat them with antibiotics if they are not immune.  None of these things seemed to sway him on the matter.  I don't know what more I could possibly offer!  I'm certainly trying to address his fears, but I feel as though he's being totally irrational!

 

Moreover, his new wife is planning on getting the TDaP shot herself, which is supposed to transfer immunity via the placenta, so her baby should supposedly be protected until baby get her shots anyhow!  In addition, she's planning on breastfeeding, so that should also bolster baby's immunity.  I just can't understand how they are so concerned!

 

He told me straight up that this shot he wanted DDs to have was only to protect the baby, but the petition he sent to court makes it sound like he's also concerned about protecting DDs from pertussis (even though he admitted to me that he wasn't concerned about that at all).  They supposedly would not need a whole series of shots, because TDaP supposedly "counts" as a full series unlike DTaP.  But I learned that TDaP is not even FDA approved for children under 11, and DD2 is only 9 (DD2 just turned 11 on Wednesday).

 

Not being familiar with family court, apparently Tuesday's hearing was just to set a longer court date.  That will take place on May 8 and I was able to find an attorney willing to work with me.    For anyone interested, I found this: http://www.lxbn.com/tag/chenzira-v-cincinnati-childrens-hospital-medical-center/ which should help strengthen my claim.  Too bad I don't live in Ohio for it to be more applicable...


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#11 of 12 Old 04-06-2013, 05:23 PM
 
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I was hoping to hear better news, sorry he's beinng a jerk about it, but glad to hear you got a lawyer that will work with you and that you've got more time.  Is she really getting the vax while pregnant??  I can't even imagine getting injected with something when no studies have ever been done on pregnant women and any vaxes.  Ugh.  Well hopefully between now and May someone can dig up some good info that will help you - good luck!

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#12 of 12 Old 04-06-2013, 05:49 PM
 
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Send her some of the autism links... that should scare her straight :)

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