When Would You Vax? - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: When Would You Vaccinate or Consider Vaccinating Yourself or Your Children?
Maybe tomorrow! (I'm non-vaxxing but considering one or more vaccines) 3 23.08%
Occupational hazard, i.e. working a job with frequent exposure to infectious, VTDs (vaccine-targeted diseases) 3 23.08%
Travel to high-risk area 8 61.54%
Formula-fed baby 1 7.69%
Enrolling my baby or child in daycare 5 38.46%
Outbreak of a VTD in my community 3 23.08%
Seeing better (e.g. stronger, more independent, more transparent) scientific evidence to convince me 7 53.85%
When my children are older and have more mature immune systems 7 53.85%
When there's a way to test ahead of time for vulnerability to a vaccine reaction 6 46.15%
When major structural reforms occur (e.g. purging CDC and medical journals of conflicts of interest so that I trust medical advice) 4 30.77%
My government, school, or social services provider forced me to do it (e.g. refused to accept some or all non-medical exemptions) 1 7.69%
Other (Please indicate any circumstances that would apply to you that this poll hasn't considered) 4 30.77%
Never 9 69.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Please answer only if you're a 100% non-vaxxer, or if you used to vax and became a non-vaxxer. (This means that I don't qualify to answer, either!) Answer as many as apply, and feel free to post and elaborate.

I know that non-vaxxing isn't always an absolute for everybody and was just curious when, if at all, non-vaxxers might consider vaccinating. I also wanted a non-judgmental, debate-free forum to ask.

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#2 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 01:31 PM
 
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I'm not sure that I qualify as a non-vaxer. My dd hasn't gotten any at age 3, but I'm not sure what is gonna happen in the near future. I'm apprehensive about vaccination, but with dd newly enrolled in pre-school and a baby due sometime in June, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe we should get a few vaccines. She still nurses, so that makes me feel a little bit better. But I'm wavering right now, considering getting her one dose of pc and one of hib. I'm super ambivalent about dtap because of how many doses it takes, the reactive-ness of that vaccine, and the fact that the pertussis part (which would be my reason for getting it) isn't very effective at actually preventing the disease.

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#3 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 02:54 PM
 
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I picked "other" because I'm still so very torn on this issue. I have been planning to discuss vaccines again at DS's 2yr dr visit, which is coming up, but I am still very hesitant. I could have picked your first option, but I don't feel like it expresses my hesitation.

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#4 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:04 PM
 
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I voted never because I just don't see any value in the medical procedure. I don't view vaccination as a substitute for an intact, strong healthy immune system, and immunity acquired naturally.


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#5 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:05 PM
 
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I vaccinated my first child but may not vaccinate my second. If anyone picks "never" I would question why they would even need to read this section if they've already made their decision? When it comes time to decide for my second child, all I can do it consider the best information available to me at the time. I don't think I would be doing my children any favors by deciding for myself what group I choose to belong to and basing my decision on that. My decision won't be based on who is right and who is wrong. If I determine I was wrong to vaccinate my first child, I won't vaccinate the second. 

 

Sorry Mirzam, we posted at the same time, I wasn't intending to pick a fight. 

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#6 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:30 PM
 
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I vaccinated my first child but may not vaccinate my second. If anyone picks "never" I would question why they would even need to read this section if they've already made their decision? When it comes time to decide for my second child, all I can do it consider the best information available to me at the time. I don't think I would be doing my children any favors by deciding for myself what group I choose to belong to and basing my decision on that. My decision won't be based on who is right and who is wrong. If I determine I was wrong to vaccinate my first child, I won't vaccinate the second. 

 

Sorry Mirzam, we posted at the same time, I wasn't intending to pick a fight. 

I don't think you understand the spirit and purpose of this board if you posted the above. I realize you then posted you didn't want to pick a fight, but the OP asked for non-judgmental, and your post certainly it didn't come off as being that way. Maybe you would like to consider editing your post.


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#7 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:49 PM
 
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I don't think you understand the spirit and purpose of this board if you posted the above. I realize you then posted you didn't want to pick a fight, but the OP asked for non-judgmental, and your post certainly it didn't come off as being that way. Maybe you would like to consider editing your post.

 

I came back and was about to, but I see you've quoted me already so I guess I'll just have to take the beatings. 

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#8 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 03:54 PM
 
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I came back and was about to, but I see you've quoted me already so I guess I'll just have to take the beatings. 

 

I think you need to be a bit more mindful when posting in this forum. 


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#9 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 04:07 PM
 
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I think you need to be a bit more mindful when posting in this forum. 

 

Well if you think so, then I will be. smile.gif

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#10 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 04:08 PM
 
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I voted other.

 

I think health issues in some children might make one consider a vaccine when they otherwise would not.

 

Ex - I got my youngest the pneumococcal  vaccine last year.   I am not 100% convinced it was the right thing to do - but I was very sick of battling lung infections and it was my call as her mother that her lungs needed a break and I was going to take most opportunities to minimise lung issues.  


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#11 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 04:14 PM
 
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I vaccinated my first child but may not vaccinate my second. If anyone picks "never" I would question why they would even need to read this section if they've already made their decision? 

Sometimes for a little online camaraderie.  A little choir preaching can make you feel less alone.  

 

A lot of people come here to discuss exemptions and how to talk to (or work with) your doctor.  Just like in other forums on MDC, parents share information to help others.

 

We can also discuss disease care - and if we should expose children to diseases or avoid.

 

There is also the health freedom slant - many people here are enraged by attempts to make vaccines mandatory or silence critics of vaccines.  It is something we share and like to talk about.   


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#12 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 04:34 PM
 
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Well if you think so, then I will be. smile.gif

I think you should be that way not just for my benefit but out of respect to all the non vaxers on this forum. 


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#13 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 04:38 PM
 
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Sometimes for a little online camaraderie.  A little choir preaching can make you feel less alone.  

 

A lot of people come here to discuss exemptions and how to talk to (or work with) your doctor.  Just like in other forums on MDC, parents share information to help others.

 

We can also discuss disease care - and if we should expose children to diseases or avoid.

 

There is also the health freedom slant - many people here are enraged by attempts to make vaccines mandatory or silence critics of vaccines.  It is something we share and like to talk about.   

 

That makes sense. No matter what my beliefs, I would still be enraged by mandatory vaccines. 

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#14 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not sure that I qualify as a non-vaxer. My dd hasn't gotten any at age 3, but I'm not sure what is gonna happen in the near future. I'm apprehensive about vaccination, but with dd newly enrolled in pre-school and a baby due sometime in June, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe we should get a few vaccines. She still nurses, so that makes me feel a little bit better. But I'm wavering right now, considering getting her one dose of pc and one of hib. I'm super ambivalent about dtap because of how many doses it takes, the reactive-ness of that vaccine, and the fact that the pertussis part (which would be my reason for getting it) isn't very effective at actually preventing the disease.

No, since you haven't vaxxed, you qualify. If you're planning on it, maybe the first option would apply?

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#15 of 27 Old 03-27-2013, 08:21 PM
 
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I guess I just don't identify as 100% no vax, or anti-vax, because I've never felt 100% sure about foregoing vaccinations. I just know that when we were in the hospital the day after DD was born and they said we had to give her the HepB shot, I felt this overwhelming sense of apprehension and hesitation. At the time I had no idea what HepB even was, and the doctor was pretty persistent so I'm surprised and thankful that I listened to my instincts and declined the vaccine. I think I managed to do so by insisting that I wanted time to do more research, and that I would consult with the pediatrician about it at her 3 day checkup. Of course, over those 3 days I was able to do some research and as soon as I read about the Hep B shot I knew for certain that she would NOT be getting it any time soon. It also caused me to doubt the rest of the vaccine schedule, because if they would try to push such an unnecessary shot on a brand new baby who had just been born less that 24 hours prior, what else might be unnecessary on the ever-increasing list of shots?

 

Since then I've declined vaccinations (although I do think she might have gotten one dose of oral rotavirus, now that I think of it) but I'm really on the fence about it. I have no reason to suspect that she would have a reaction, but I just feel like the number of shots, and the fact that many of them are for diseases that were once considered normal, non-life-threatening childhood illnesses (measles, mumps, chicken pox) gives me pause. Until dd started preschool recently she was never in any daycare or group activities with other littles. She was rarely even cared for by anyone other than DH or myself, and she still nurses at 3yrs2mo. So I've felt just barely comfortable enough to continue declining vaccines. But never 100% sure of that decision.


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#16 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 05:32 AM
 
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I am up far too early this morning, so I will take a moment to elaborate.  I did tick 3 boxes, but these are not firm "I would vax if..."   they are more "I might consider vaxxing if….".

 

1.  VTD outbreak.  This is very VTD  specific, and there are only a few disease I would consider vaxxing for in the wake of a wide spread outbreak.  Diseases would need to be highly contagious and have a great chance of causing death or severe long-term consequences.   Diphtheria and Polio are 2.  Measles is a possible third, but I would need to research it some more.  The age of the child would be another factor.  I am less likely to vaccinate a baby or young child than an older child.  With something like diphtheria I would probably vaccinate at any age if there was an outbreak - with something like measles, I would be more inclined to vaccinate a person that was over 4 or so.  In general, I believe the risks of vaccines are higher when you are younger.  

 

2.  I ticked seeing better science - but I would untick it today if I could.  I think better science is great - and I will always argue for it - but lack of good science does not form the crux of my non-vaxxing.  Risk assessment does. How common is the disease?  How common would it be if no one vaxxed?  Who is at risk?  How dangerous is it? We do have answers to these questions now, and the answers have not led me to vaxxing.   Let's look at rota.  I have 3 kids.  All were breastfed, none were in daycare, all live in a wealthy country with great medical care.   Apparently 90% of people have rota (if unvaxxed) by age 5.  If my kids had it, it was so mild I did not even notice it.  Even if all the science around the rota vaccine was stellar, I am unlikely to use the rota vax.  I don't think it is worth the car trip, I don't think it is worth sitting in the doctors office with a newborn (twice - do they need 2 doses?) and I don't think it is worth the vaccine.  This list:  car trip, doctors office, vaccine -  all have risks, and rota given my situation seems to have very few.  Tetanus is another one.  As far as I can tell the chances of getting tetanus for an unvaxxed person are from 1/250 000  ( 1930s rate of tetanus - prevaccine era figure) to 1/12 000 000  (current overall chance of tetanus) and most victims of tetanus are diabetic, elderly or drug users.  This is another one where I am not sure the shot is worth the car ride, doctors office visit (with all those sick people) or known and accepted risks of the vaccine.  

 

I also think we have some aspects of public health wrong.  I think getting many of the childhood diseases are good for most kids.  They may have benefits we do not understand (such as the shingles/ chicken pox issue or decreasing a woman's chances of ovarian cancer).  They often offer better and long -lived immunity, and a naturally immune mother can pass on some immunity to her infant through birth and breastfeeding (which cannot be said for vaccines)

 

3.  I was the person to ticked "if the government forced me to."  That, however, is very situation specific.  I would HS a child before vaxxing them if I could.  If I really, really had to work fulltime, I might vax them with the minimum I could get away with, and i would be very bitter about it.   I would wait until they were as old as possible before vaxxing, as I do think it is better to vax a 4 yr old than a baby. I would also say that much older children do have some say in things.  If I had an older teen who really wanted to do something, and you had to be vaxxed for it, and the older teen old was capable and willing to read up on vaccines - I might hand the decision over to them.  It is their body.   


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#17 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 06:00 AM
 
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I checked better research, structural reforms, and prescreening.

 

i would have checked when my children are older--but I've found evidence that some kinds of autoimmune reactions listed are listed specifically as risks for adults.  I don't know if it's because adults are more specifically at risk for those types of reactions (perhaps because of hormones, or because of simultaneous exposures to other chemicals, other meds maybe?) or if it's just that they're better able to report the reaction symptoms.  Or maybe for the same reason some childhood diseases are more severe in adults--and has anyone ever found out WHY that is?

 

and Kathy, I was assuming that better science INCLUDED risk assessment.  I think it's very poor science to recommend an invasive procedure to prevent an extremely low-risk disease.

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#18 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 06:49 AM
 
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and Kathy, I was assuming that better science INCLUDED risk assessment.  I think it's very poor science to recommend an invasive procedure to prevent an extremely low-risk disease.

I see risk assessment as more to do with stats.

 

I base my decision on the stats.

 

We do have acceptable stats on disease prevalence and typical course of disease.  I don't really consider these science (or at least not complicated science) - more observation, reporting and number crunching. 

 

Where science is lacking (and this does affect ability to do proper risk assessment) is vaccine side effects.  We do not have good science around long term side effects. It could be they do not want to look.  It could be the bar for "causal" is very high, but it is the thing they use to make their recommendations on (hey - it only took decades to prove a causal relationship between cigarettes and lung cancer) or it could be that many diseases (say autoimmune issues) have so many triggers and links that sorting out if and how vaccines contribute is very, very difficult…..


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#19 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess I just don't identify as 100% no vax, or anti-vax, because I've never felt 100% sure about foregoing vaccinations. I just know that when we were in the hospital the day after DD was born and they said we had to give her the HepB shot, I felt this overwhelming sense of apprehension and hesitation. At the time I had no idea what HepB even was, and the doctor was pretty persistent so I'm surprised and thankful that I listened to my instincts and declined the vaccine. I think I managed to do so by insisting that I wanted time to do more research, and that I would consult with the pediatrician about it at her 3 day checkup. Of course, over those 3 days I was able to do some research and as soon as I read about the Hep B shot I knew for certain that she would NOT be getting it any time soon. It also caused me to doubt the rest of the vaccine schedule, because if they would try to push such an unnecessary shot on a brand new baby who had just been born less that 24 hours prior, what else might be unnecessary on the ever-increasing list of shots?

Since then I've declined vaccinations (although I do think she might have gotten one dose of oral rotavirus, now that I think of it) but I'm really on the fence about it. I have no reason to suspect that she would have a reaction, but I just feel like the number of shots, and the fact that many of them are for diseases that were once considered normal, non-life-threatening childhood illnesses (measles, mumps, chicken pox) gives me pause. Until dd started preschool recently she was never in any daycare or group activities with other littles. She was rarely even cared for by anyone other than DH or myself, and she still nurses at 3yrs2mo. So I've felt just barely comfortable enough to continue declining vaccines. But never 100% sure of that decision.

I can respect and completely relate to all of this. Hep B vaccination got me started on my skepticism, as well. My LOs are now on a selective and delayed schedule with which I'm tentatively satisfied. (But I'm constantly questioning everything!) Good luck with your decision!

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#20 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:26 AM
 
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Darn - I didn't know i could tick multiple boxes until it was too late. I checked other:

 

 

I really think the only circumstances in which I might vaccinate are 2. The first is like Kathy said - if there was a widespread outbreak of something that was particularly deadly. The risk/benefit ratio would have to be very high on the risk of death side. The other case I suppose if I were forced to. I would like to sit here and say that no matter what under any circumstances would I allow myself or my kids to be vaccinated out of force. Id like to state that I would home school before I allowed this. But I also live in the real world. The reality is that my husband and I both work full time. We have to. If I stopped working full time we would lose our house. I suppose that I could argue for moving to a cheaper area of the country (I live in the third most expensive place in the USA). I would actually do that before injecting my kids against my will, but my husband may feel differently - so I suppose that would have to be worked out. 

 

I would also like to see better science/research. However I really don't think that that would convince me to vaccinate my kids. In fact I think all it would do, is prove how dangerous they can be and how little is really known about their long term impact on a tiny person's immune system. 


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#21 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 10:31 AM
 
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I voted never because I just don't see any value in the medical procedure. I don't view vaccination as a substitute for an intact, strong healthy immune system, and immunity acquired naturally.

 

That is pretty much my stance right now.

 

I can't predict the future, but the way I feel right now, my kids are much better off without them. Everyone around me this winter is talking about their kids having illness after illness, constantly on antibiotics and Tylenol for fevers, and my kids may have had a sniffle for a day.

IMO, you ether believe vaccines are beneficial, or you don't. I don't.


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#22 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 02:52 PM
 
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That is pretty much my stance right now.

 

I can't predict the future, but the way I feel right now, my kids are much better off without them. Everyone around me this winter is talking about their kids having illness after illness, constantly on antibiotics and Tylenol for fevers, and my kids may have had a sniffle for a day.

IMO, you ether believe vaccines are beneficial, or you don't. I don't.


Same here- voted never.

 

Everybody around us has been sick forever. We did have the flu and our 2 DDs just got right over it. Now DD1 started day care and we will see how it goes. I was asked about allergies and esp. asthma and they had a hard time believing me that my child is all well. So thanks but no thanks when it comes to vaccines.


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#23 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 06:21 PM
 
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I voted never as well...at least for myself...as for my kids, they are pretty much grown and can make their own decisions now about it, but i think they lean towards not vaxing.  I have not had any vax in  30yrs, and don't intend to start now, or ever. 

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#24 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 08:20 PM
 
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I answered theoretically what *might* make me reconsider my decision to stop vaxxing DD.  She did have reactions and having some way to know that ahead of time would have prevented me from vaxing her in the first place and I could have avoided some of these issues - so a vote for testing.  I also checked off better research and reform.  Reality is, better research would be scary to look at.  Reform? Well that will never happen in my lifetime.  So barring a disease that could wipe out my family with the only option being to vax, we'll remain no-vax here.  I'm pretty stubborn, I think I'd up and move if it meant avoiding some manditory vaxing!

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#25 of 27 Old 03-28-2013, 09:38 PM
 
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I voted never. Sure I would be a bit worried during an outbreak or if I traveled somewhere high-risk, but I can't ignore everything I've learned about vaccines and the risks that come with them. I strongly believe that in most healthy people, these diseases are not life threatening and proper nutrition and hygiene can play a huge role in preventing these diseases. I guess I would just rather take the chance at LO and myself catching something than some sort of adverse reaction to the vaccine.


Cecillia | 22 | Love Jesus | Happily Married | WTT #2: 2015

Breastfeeding, Babywearing, Gentle Parenting crunchy momma to an unvaxxed intact sweet boy.

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#26 of 27 Old 03-29-2013, 06:46 AM
 
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I find it interesting that 7 voted travel to a high risk area, the highest of the votes.  Yesterday when I went to bed there were none IIRC - so they all happened overnight.  Weird - but maybe coincidence.  

 

In any event, I personally do not understand that option.  I simply would not travel to a place I deemed a high risk place if I needed to vaccinate to do so.  The only exception might be if I were travelling there for more complex reasons than a vacation - such as introducing grandparents to grandchildren, or my children to the country of my birth…but even then I might not do it.  I might pay for the grandparents to come here.  Making a permanent medical decision for travel seems odd.  

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#27 of 27 Old 03-29-2013, 11:21 PM
 
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We just got our dd polio first shot at 7 mos. it is her first and only vaccine. She will have follow up vax in 2 months. The reason we got this vax is because we live in a country that still has wild polio. Babies are given oral polio here at 3,4,5 mos old and then again around 5 years old. We went to an international clinic and paid for imported injected polio as I felt it safer. Knowing that babies of family and friends around us are shedding polio for weeks after oral vax also influenced our decision to get this vax. If I lived in US I would not get any vax.
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