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#1 of 34 Old 04-21-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My daughter is exhibiting all the symptoms of whooping cough. At night it is the worst, she coughs to the point of vomiting and cannot breathe for a moment. The vomiting is now happening each night after the coughs. During the day the coughs seeem to be milder and she's still eating/drinking okay.

 

Over the weekend she had the culture swab which was really hard to watch and a lot more invasive than I had thought before she had it done, but still waiting on the results. This is going on week 2 and this is my first experience with this illness that I have given her two doses of the anitbiotic, the first dose she vomited back up within 10-15 minutes. I called after hours care and they suggested I try giving one more dose the second day, so far today she kept the dose down. I don't like giving antibiotics at all but this illness concerns me so I did give it to her. Is there other things to do besides vitamin C to strengthen her system while taking the antibiotic?


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#2 of 34 Old 04-21-2013, 02:09 PM
 
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how old is she?


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#3 of 34 Old 04-21-2013, 02:11 PM
 
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http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Whooping_cough_treatment/

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#4 of 34 Old 04-21-2013, 09:12 PM
 
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Is it for sure whooping cough?

 

I thought that my 18 month old had, but it turned out to be croup.  He was showing all the symtoms for whooping cough too.

 

They prescribed prednisone.

 

And yes, that nose swab is intense.  I still dont understand why they need to stick it so high up.  Poor babies.

 

ETA: Just reread your post.  Still waiting on the results and they still prescribed antibiotics?

 

Just because she is throwing up and making the classic whoop noise between coughs does not mean its whooping cough.  Like I said, my son had all the same symptoms and it turned out to be croup.  The results only take a few hours, what is taking them so long?  Maybe you should call.

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#5 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 07:29 AM
 
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Vitamin C for Whooping Cough. Updated edition by Dr Suzanne Humphries

 

ETA: 

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/whoop.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/035541_whooping_cough_homeopathic_remedies.html


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#6 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the links Mirzam.

 

Night time is the hardest. I worry with her vomiting each night after the coughing episodes it will soon deplete her. I've found a whooping ease tea by Aviva Jill Romm which I will start making at home to help.

 

edited to add:

Hospital called today. tests came back positive. As much as I don't like using antibiotics  I'll continue to give it them to her. I sure hope this doesn't last for 6-10 weeks as I've read so far about the illness.


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#7 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 04:35 PM
 
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If you get the vitamin C dosage right, you'll notice a difference in the intensity of the coughing. Once we got to bowel tolerance with our DS, the paroxysmal coughing was still there but he wasn't vomiting after coughing any longer. The whooping was lessened as well. He continued to cough for weeks, but it was a lot easier to manage.


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#8 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
 
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Garlic supports the immune system, as does elderberry syrup, vit d is great for respiratory.

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#9 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 07:37 PM
 
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I saw a 2 month old infant with whooping cough. They just have her the one dose of Azythromicin and that was it. She coughed until vomiting several times a day and after 2-3 weeks started to get better. I say that to encourage you! My kids had direct contact with her but thankfully did not contract it. Hiecer, I did a lot of research to be prepared to treat it. Bought the vitamin c powder for that treatment ( it is megadoses of vit c) and I thought I read that the antibiotics work best if given before the coughing starts, you know during that 1-2 week period where they are infected but not coughing until vomiting. I say that because since you don't like antibiotics maybe you can research to be sure it us worth to continue them.
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#10 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 09:52 PM
 
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I'm sorry to hear the test was positive.  You seem to have a good plan.  

 

I don't like to give antibiotics either, but in this case I would give them.

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#11 of 34 Old 04-22-2013, 11:11 PM
 
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I was just going to mention, it's on the CDC site and elsewhere that antibiotics after the cough has started do nothing to ameliorate the course of the illness, just prevent spread. So, they won't make much of a difference with the clinical case but work to prevent transmission. Quarantine does the same. 

 

Good luck. Once you get the vitamin C dosage right, you'll notice a difference...it'll go from nightmarish to "hey, this is manageable." 

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#12 of 34 Old 04-24-2013, 11:11 AM
 
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yeahthat.gif antibiotics actually make the cough worse and last longer: contagiousness is past 21 days after the onset of the cough. Seems like you are at that point no? Antibiotics may do more harm than good at this point. 

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#13 of 34 Old 04-25-2013, 04:34 PM
 
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As pertussis is caused by a bacteria, I would treat using colloidal silver, as well as Vit C.

 

This site has some good tips under 'Home remedies' and a couple of people mention silver in the comments section. 

 

I hope she is feeling better soon!


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#14 of 34 Old 04-25-2013, 06:36 PM
 
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We didn't have whooping cough, but my daughter's lungs were somewhat damaged at 2 weeks by RSV and she now has Reactive Airway Disease.  Colds hit her particularly hard, and she just got over a 2.5 month bout of bronchitis.

 

She recently caught another cold and I was sick and tired of having them linger.  I found this cough syrup extremely helpful.  The author used it on her kids' whooping cough.


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#15 of 34 Old 04-25-2013, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lazurii View Post

We didn't have whooping cough, but my daughter's lungs were somewhat damaged at 2 weeks by RSV and she now has Reactive Airway Disease.  Colds hit her particularly hard, and she just got over a 2.5 month bout of bronchitis.

 

She recently caught another cold and I was sick and tired of having them linger.  I found this cough syrup extremely helpful.  The author used it on her kids' whooping cough.

 

My youngest does a form of chest physiotherapy at home to help move secretions around, and I have been so happy with it.  It is still early days, but DD has not had a chest infection of any sort since September or so.  She is 10 and whenever she has even a hint of a cold she has a plan she is to follow -in her case breathing into a tube, huffing and coughing. I can hear the gunk moving when she usies it, if she has a cold.  I have heard you can use clapping on younger kids - here is a page to get you started. http://copd.about.com/od/copdtreatment/tp/airwayclearancetechniques.htm

 

We learned about chest physiotherapy through the lung clinic at a local childrens hospital - and honestly, it has been a godsend.   


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#16 of 34 Old 04-25-2013, 08:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

My youngest does a form of chest physiotherapy at home to help move secretions around, and I have been so happy with it.  It is still early days, but DD has not had a chest infection of any sort since September or so.  She is 10 and whenever she has even a hint of a cold she has a plan she is to follow -in her case breathing into a tube, huffing and coughing. I can hear the gunk moving when she usies it, if she has a cold.  I have heard you can use clapping on younger kids - here is a page to get you started. http://copd.about.com/od/copdtreatment/tp/airwayclearancetechniques.htm

 

We learned about chest physiotherapy through the lung clinic at a local childrens hospital - and honestly, it has been a godsend.   

 

Is a three-year-old able to learn it?


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As pertussis is caused by a bacteria, I would treat using colloidal silver, as well as Vit C.

 

I would never give (or take) colloidal silver, as it can turn the skin permanently bluish-gray.

 

Consumer Reports talks about it here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/dangerous-supplements/index.htm

 

The NIH (National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine) warns against it here: http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver

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#18 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the suggestions. At this point after all I've read so far about the illness no coughing expectorant or syrup will help because the toxin left behind by bordetella pertussis has damaged the cillia of the lungs. I've become so worried for my daughter. In fact I'm going to re-consider all thoughts to non-vaxing after watching my daughter struggle with this illness.


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#19 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 05:48 AM
 
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Thank you for the suggestions. At this point after all I've read so far about the illness no coughing expectorant or syrup will help because the toxin left behind by bordetella pertussis has damaged the cillia of the lungs. I've become so worried for my daughter. In fact I'm going to re-consider all thoughts to non-vaxing after watching my daughter struggle with this illness.

Have you tried the vitamin C therapy? By all accounts it does really seem to work. When my kids had WC, it was incredibly mild so they really didn't need any help. For them it was a minor annoyance, really only coughing at night. I would recommend reading everything Hilary Butler has to say on pertsussis and the vaccine, it is very comprehensive and extremely well referenced. Sorry your DD has had such a rough go of it, but at least she will have lasting immunity and will be able to mount a proper immune response to WC if/when she next encounters it, which would not have been the case if she were vaccinated for it.

 

Whooping Cough


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#20 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 06:43 AM
 
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I would never give (or take) colloidal silver, as it can turn the skin permanently bluish-gray.

 

Consumer Reports talks about it here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/05/dangerous-supplements/index.htm

 

The NIH (National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine) warns against it here: http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver

Please do some more research on CS before posting this gross over generalization. While there is SOME truth to this, one needs all the facts.

This condition is called argyria. 

 

There are several different types of CS and the PPM has alot to do with this condition as well. Mainstream media makes no distinction between types and strengths when making claims like this.

 

Virtually ALL cases of this condition (and it was rare to begin with) occurred prior to 1975 when manufacturers used real silver and the particle size was very large. The particles would lodge in the skin and when exposed to sunlight would turn the skin blue. The US Federal Register listed the silver products that cause argyria as: Silver salts, including silver nitrate, silver arsphenamine, silver chloride and possibly silver iodide. These products were sold until about 1975 under various labels consisting of silver solutions ranging from 5-30% silver [50,000-300,000 ppm (parts per million) of silver]  The CS used today uses different types of silver and are nano-particles so cannot cause this condition.The only way this could happen nowaways is if someone is making their own (which people do as generators are sold all the time) and they do not follow the instructions.ie use tap water, combined it with salt, and then take wayyyyyy more than the recommended dose. 

 

CS can be a very useful and effective remedy when bought as a supplement or made correctly if homemade. 


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#21 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 06:49 AM
 
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Is a three-year-old able to learn it?

A think with a 3 year old you would probably do a cupping/clapping technique….but I am not sure,  The take home message is ask your doc about it  - and hopefully get a referral to a physiotherapist who is used to dealing with children with chest issues. I do think a 3 year old might be able to do what my daughter does.  This is what he does:

 

 

1.  She breaths into a device called a PEP machine.  It was about 40$.  She is supposed to blow into it 15 time, hold it for 3 seconds, and she has to blow at a suffecient pressure that a needle goes into a orange zone.

 

2.  She then huffs 5  times - so pretends she is fogging a glass 5 times

 

3.  She then coughs 3 times.  Yes, fake coughs.  Sometimes they turn into real coughs and sometimes I can hear secretions moving - which is the goal in her case.  

 

I think the plan DD is on is best for people who tend to have secretion get stuck in one area (and that turn into a chest infection).  This helps move secretions around.


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#22 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 12:31 PM
 
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Please do some more research on CS before posting this gross over generalization. While there is SOME truth to this, one needs all the facts.

This condition is called argyria. 

 

There are several different types of CS and the PPM has alot to do with this condition as well. Mainstream media makes no distinction between types and strengths when making claims like this.

 

Virtually ALL cases of this condition (and it was rare to begin with) occurred prior to 1975 when manufacturers used real silver and the particle size was very large. The particles would lodge in the skin and when exposed to sunlight would turn the skin blue. The US Federal Register listed the silver products that cause argyria as: Silver salts, including silver nitrate, silver arsphenamine, silver chloride and possibly silver iodide. These products were sold until about 1975 under various labels consisting of silver solutions ranging from 5-30% silver [50,000-300,000 ppm (parts per million) of silver]  The CS used today uses different types of silver and are nano-particles so cannot cause this condition.The only way this could happen nowaways is if someone is making their own (which people do as generators are sold all the time) and they do not follow the instructions.ie use tap water, combined it with salt, and then take wayyyyyy more than the recommended dose.

 

 

Fine, here's my "more research" that you think I haven't done:

 

In 2009, the FDA issued this (http://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutbreaksEmergencies/SafetyAlertsAdvisories/ucm184087.htm) safety alert warning consumers that dietery supplements containing silver may cause permanent discoloration of the skins and mucous membranes - argyria. They list the products that can cause this condition as:

 

Quote:
Silver ingredients may be identified on the label of a dietary supplement as "colloidal silver" (a liquid suspension of tiny silver particles), "colloidal silver protein," "ionic silver," "native silver," "silver," "silver alginate," "silver protein," "mild silver protein," and "true colloidal silver."

 

So, yes, there are different forms of CS, but the warning applies to all of them. And if you think it doesn't, keep reading.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

Virtually ALL cases of this condition (and it was rare to begin with) occurred prior to 1975 when manufacturers used real silver and the particle size was very large. The particles would lodge in the skin and when exposed to sunlight would turn the skin blue.

 

 

This is not how argyria works at all. When silver (in any form) is ingested, it undergoes oxidative dissolution by the gastric fluids (stomach acids) in your digestive system (and, in fact, the smaller the particles the more quickly it undergoes this chemical process). "Oxidative dissolution" means that the Ag (silver) loses electrons (which have a negative charge) and so has an overall positive charge. This makes it want to "grab on" to other molecules so that it can have a neutral charge again. From there (your digestive system), these charged silver particles can be taken up into the circulatory system and enter the bloodstream, where they are taken throughout the body and can bind with proteins in tissues and organs all over the body. If they bind with the tissues in your skin, at a certain concentration the exposure to UV irradiation (sunlight) they will form immobile AG-NPs (silver nanoparticles). From there, the silver nanoparticles can become sulfidated (react with and bind to sulfur) and then undergo selenium-sulfide exchanges. And thus, you end up with the Ag2S and the Ag2Se molecule mixture that is found in argyrial deposits.

 

Here are the articles explaining this process:

- "Chemical Transformations of Nanosilver in Biological Environments" (This one's just got text, no pictures)

- "Chemical Transformations of Nanosilver in Biological Environments" (This one's got some good charts and graphs that explain the chemical reactions)

- "Scientist unlock chemical processes behind argyria, silver-related skin condition" (This one isn't the actual research paper, but is a news article explaining the paper. It is easier to understand as a lay-person.)

 

Key note about this process:

- The silver particles that you ingest are not deposited in your skin in exactly the same size and form. They are broken down into salts in your stomach and deposited in your skin in a secondary, charged form. That means it doesn't matter what size they are when you ingest them - small or large, they will turn into the same secondary product that is taken up into the bloodstream. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

The CS used today uses different types of silver and are nano-particles so cannot cause this condition.

 

If you just read the chemical process above, you'll see that the nanoparticles are the exact form that cause the condition. All types of silver must be broken down and chemically transformed into silver nanoparticles to undergo the sulfidation and sulfide-selenium exchanges that will result in argyrial deposits.

 

 

Quote:
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The only way this could happen nowaways is if someone is making their own (which people do as generators are sold all the time) and they do not follow the instructions.ie use tap water, combined it with salt, and then take wayyyyyy more than the recommended dose. 

 

- Combining it with tap water will make no difference to the digestion of the silver (and following chemical processes)

- Combining it with salt will make no difference to the digestion of the silver (and following chemical processes)

- Yes, here I agree with you. Taking more than the recommended dose is a big problem and contributes to the development of argyria. 

 

The question then is, what dose would be safe and not be at risk for developing argyria? It's a hard question to answer. In that same 2009 FDA statement I quoted above, they say:

 

Quote:
Argyria may develop quickly with the use of products that contain large amounts of silver or may develop gradually over time with the use of products that contain small amounts of silver. Based on the available scientific information, FDA is not able to advise consumers of a dose or use restrictions that would minimize or eliminate the risk of argyria.

 

They also say:

 

Quote:
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has established a chronic oral Reference Dose (RfD) of 5 micrograms (µg) of silver per kilogram (kg) of body weight per day (5 µg/kg/day) based on a review of 70 cases of argyria that were associated with oral and other uses of silver compounds. For a 70 kg person (or about 154 pounds body weight), this would be about 350 µg of silver per day. Ingesting silver in amounts close to or above the EPA RfD may put a consumer at risk of developing argyria. If you are using or considering using a dietary supplement that contains silver and have questions or concerns about its safety for you in your particular circumstances, you should discuss those concerns with your health care provider.

 

You can look at that Environmental Protection Agency recommendation here: http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0099.htm.

 

They say on that same page:

 

Quote:
I.A.5. Confidence in the Oral RfD
 
Study — Medium 
Database — Low 
RfD (Reference Dose) — Low
 
The critical human study rates a medium confidence. It is an old study (1935) which offers fairly specific information regarding the total dose of silver injected over a stated period of time. One shortcoming of the study is that only patients developing argyria are described; no information is presented on patients who received multiple injections of silver arsphenamine without developing argyria. Therefore, it is difficult to establish a NOAEL (no-observed-adverse-effect-level). Also, the individuals in the study were being treated for syphilis and may have been of compromised health.
 
Confidence in the database is considered to be low because the studies used to support the RfD were not controlled studies. For clinical case studies of argyria (such as Blumberg and Carey, 1934; East et al., 1980), it is especially difficult to determine the amount of silver that was ingested.
 
Confidence in the RfD can be considered low-to-medium because, while the critical effect has been demonstrated in humans following oral administration of silver, the quantitative risk estimate is based on a study utilizing intravenous administration and thus necessitates a dose conversion with inherent uncertainties.

 

I find it notable that the EPA considers its confidence in its own recommended dose to be "Low-to-medium."

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#23 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 01:47 PM
 
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Pretty sure the news stories I've seen on people turning blue involved them taking rediculously high doses on a daily basis for several years....

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#24 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 01:54 PM
 
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She lost me at FDA...

 

 

I make me own colloidal silver and swear by it! From my research, you have to take extremely high doses over a prolonged period of time.

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#25 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 02:07 PM
 
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I know that the cells are already damaged by the bacteria, but I'm sure anti-inflammatories such as turmeric and Vit C would help keep the swelling down, making it easier to move secretions and such.


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#26 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 03:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chloebelle View Post

She lost me at FDA...

 

 

Me too!

 

ETA: It works brilliantly on tooth abscesses, gone within two days. Also I used it when my dog had giardia from eating deer poop, again, cleared up within a couple of days.


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#27 of 34 Old 04-26-2013, 07:52 PM
 
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I use colloidal silver for my family anytime there is sore throat, laceration, etc. that stuff is magic. Love it!
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#28 of 34 Old 04-27-2013, 09:42 AM
 
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Me too!

 

ETA: It works brilliantly on tooth abscesses, gone within two days. Also I used it when my dog had giardia from eating deer poop, again, cleared up within a couple of days.

 

Me three!!  I don't trust ANYTHING that organisation has to say, neither the EPA.  They are both in bed with big business, and don't have public best interests at heart.

 

As I think Marnica said, the cases of turning blue seem to be from people taking too much for too long, or using a solution with too many parts per million, making it difficult for the body to excrete - and these cases are very rare.  I use a silver with 10 ppm or less and I am convinced by the benefits and have never experienced any side effects, so I will continue to use it for myself and my family.  Amazing stuff!!

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#29 of 34 Old 04-27-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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I highly recommend that you consult with holistic practitioner Nicole Tucker.  She offers natural, non-invasive and effective health therapies to address whooping cough and a wide range of illness.  She's available via phone consults.  Contact her more details.  www.NicoleAngelaTucker.com

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#30 of 34 Old 05-16-2013, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you Lazurii for the link. That blog had some interesting information.

 

Finally my daughter is healing. This was a really hard illness to watch my child struggle with. Also my vaccinated children got this as well, so it's not just the un-vaccinated children who are susceptible to whooping cough.

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