MDC promoting vaccishield? - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-03-2013, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What do you think of this?

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1382595/heres-your-chance-to-try-vaccishield-for-free

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Old 05-03-2013, 07:50 PM
 
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It doesn't bother me. They say they promote informed decisions and plenty informed parents vaccinate. I don't know much about that product other than what you linked, but it seems like it could be helpful for someone who vaccinates. What do you think?

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Old 05-03-2013, 07:51 PM
 
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I thought it was odd but I also think if you are gonna vax then it's good to support the body through the process if you can.

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Old 05-03-2013, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am not sure.  I really do not care what people buy. I am all for parental choice, and if this product is something some parents might want it is fine with me. 

 

I am wondering if it is tacit support of vaxxing from MDC.  I know they host both vax and non-vax discussions, but hosting and promoting a product from one side or the other seems different.  Would they give away baby forumula, for example? Would that been seen as tacit approval of formula feeding?  Of course formula can undermine breastfeeding, so that is somewhat different.  I am trying to think up a comparable example…..


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Old 05-03-2013, 08:16 PM
 
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MDC is supporting that product, so they support vaccines. That is disgusting to be supporting something that harms and kills innocent babies & children. Vaccines are disgusting and worthless scams. That "Vaccineshield" product name is disgusting too and I wouldn't waste a cent on a product that encourages vaccines. That product is participating in the vaccines scam just by the name of the product and advertising what it does. Nasty.


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Old 05-03-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MDC is supporting that product, so they support vaccines. That is disgusting to be supporting something that harms and kills innocent babies & children. Vaccines are disgusting and worthless scams. That "Vaccineshield" product name is disgusting too and I wouldn't waste a cent on a product that encourages vaccines. That product is participating in the vaccines scam just by the name of the product and advertising what it does. Nasty.

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Old 05-03-2013, 09:15 PM
 
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I do not think you need this product, whether or not you choose to vaccinate your children.  If you don't choose to vaccinate, you can skip the entire sales pitch.  If you do choose to vaccinate, I don't think this product does a damn thing to make vaccines work better or reduce the incidence of adverse effects.  I think this product is intended to capitalize on parental anxiety about vaccine choices and autism, and will remove money from your wallet while providing no benefit to you or your child.

 

I vaccinate my kids and I absolutely would not use this product.  I think the sales pitch is obvious quackery, and, as such, I find it offensive.

 

I would like to see Mothering less involved in naked advertising schemes involving unsupported claims for nutritional supplements.

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Old 05-03-2013, 09:25 PM
 
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If vaccines don't cause harm, then why would one need a shield? Lol, just kidding.

 

I can understand why Mothering is promoting it, since this site is pro-choice. I wonder what the die hard pro-vaccine crowd has to say about this product. Do they acknowledge the need for immune system support during vaccination? Or, do they deny any real chance of a vaccine reaction, and find a product like this to be unnecessary?


 
 
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:37 PM
 
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If vaccines don't cause harm, then why would one need a shield? Lol, just kidding.

 

I can understand why Mothering is promoting it, since this site is pro-choice. I wonder what the die hard pro-vaccine crowd has to say about this product. Do they acknowledge the need for immune system support during vaccination? Or, do they deny any real chance of a vaccine reaction, and find a product like this to be unnecessary?

 

I vax my kids.  I'm pretty die hard about it.  However, I also acknowledge the possibility - the real chance - of vaccine reaction.  I think this product does NOTHING to affect that risk.  It's a children's multivitamin with some probiotics.

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Old 05-03-2013, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts - can nutrition status of the infant at the time of vaccination influence the chance of severe vaccine reaction?  How - and links, please, if you have got them.


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Old 05-04-2013, 06:44 AM
 
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Not sure it was the exact same product, but they advertised this in the mag so nothing new there.

 

I don't really care one way or the other. I have no need for it, so won't be joining this contest.

 

Did you mean to post this in I'm not vaxxing or were you wanting to hear from both sides?

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Old 05-04-2013, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Did you mean to post this in I'm not vaxxing or were you wanting to hear from both sides?

I posted it here on purpose. I had originally been looking at this from a 'is MDC supporting vaccines, and how do you a non-vaxxxer, feel about that?"  I would prefer to have that conversation here.

 

After I posted the thread the issue of if nutrition of baby plays a role in vax reactions arose- and if I was only going at it from that angle I would have posted in discussion and debate. 

 

It is where it is, though...and I am not moving it wink1.gif  I tend to prefer the tone and ease in this forum, anyways.


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Old 05-04-2013, 11:26 PM
 
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It doesn't bother me that MDC is letting Vaccishield advertise here. I don't see it as them advertising formula (which every health promotion organization in the world has recognized as unhealthy) or things along those lines. It's not like Vaccishield undermines non-vax'ing parents. Plus, MDC doesn't have a stance on vaccination that I know about (not like they do on spanking or CIO).


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Old 05-06-2013, 07:07 AM
 
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It doesn't bother me that MDC is letting Vaccishield advertise here. I don't see it as them advertising formula (which every health promotion organization in the world has recognized as unhealthy) or things along those lines. It's not like Vaccishield undermines non-vax'ing parents. Plus, MDC doesn't have a stance on vaccination that I know about (not like they do on spanking or CIO).

 

IF mothering is really neutral (not taking a stance) why take a stance by promoting it? giving it aways certainly is an endorsement and certainly comes off as not neutral if you want to give this away-IMO

 

 

My real issue is the product it self.

track record? like trust - where it is? I can't find independent reviews of it, they sell if off Amazon and other companies have given it away too..... seem like snake oil not a product I would never consider even if I did vaccinate!

 

if you read the fine print it for healthy children - what does that really mean? it means you can't sue if your child has a reaction, they are also an LLC - how many know at 6 months their child has a gut issue or not or something else that deems them not "healthy" - it's not for the 2 & 4 months shots either 

 

same with snake oil, there will always be those that want it so bad they will take it no matter what, being involved with a product like this IMO diminishes your creditability 


 

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Old 05-06-2013, 11:19 AM
 
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I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts - can nutrition status of the infant at the time of vaccination influence the chance of severe vaccine reaction?  How - and links, please, if you have got them.

Hilary Butler is your go to resource for this kind of information. She has tons of it.

 

http://beyondconformity.org.nz/

 

(Sorry I am being lazy and not giving you actual links, but when you have the time, do a search on her website. Especially the breast feeding stuff.


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Old 05-06-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My real issue is the product it self.

track record? like trust - where it is? I can't find independent reviews of it, they sell if off Amazon and other companies have given it away too..... seem like snake oil not a product I would never consider even if I did vaccinate!

 

I don't entirely get it.  If I thought vaxxing was so dangerous that I needed a product to help me detoxify after it, I wouldn't do it  (oh wait….)


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Old 05-06-2013, 03:10 PM
 
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I don't entirely get it.  If I thought vaxxing was so dangerous that I needed a product to help me detoxify after it, I wouldn't do it  (oh wait….)

 

yea.......I totally agree with Becky! and really why take Tylenol or anything for that matter - don't you want the full effect?? ROTFLMAO.gif

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If vaccines don't cause harm, then why would one need a shield? Lol, just kidding.

 

 Do they acknowledge the need for immune system support during vaccination? Or, do they deny any real chance of a vaccine reaction, and find a product like this to be unnecessary?


 

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:51 PM
 
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I don't entirely get it.  If I thought vaxxing was so dangerous that I needed a product to help me detoxify after it, I wouldn't do it  (oh wait….)

You hit the nail on the head here.

 

Apparently, most people can't see that the emperor is buck-naked.

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:06 PM
 
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I don't entirely get it.  If I thought vaxxing was so dangerous that I needed a product to help me detoxify after it, I wouldn't do it  (oh wait….)

I don't think it's as black and white as that though. I think some people feel for some vaxes the benefit may outweigh the risk. That is not to say they are comfortable with the ingredients or don;t feel that some level of harm may come from giving it. They just might feel that for that particular vaccine, the harm that may come from NOT giving it would be more. So for that person, I can see why a product like this is appealing. They want the benefit from the vaccine, but they want to minimize the potential negative effects from it as well. I get it (and as you all know I don't vax at all)


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Old 05-07-2013, 02:53 PM
 
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Also, some people feel pressured in to vaccinating. It may be difficult or impossible to get an exemption in some cases, or one parent may insist on it, etc- not everyone who agrees to vaccinate feels good about it. A way to support the child's immune system through the process may appeal to reluctant vaxxers.

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Old 05-07-2013, 06:06 PM
 
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 They just might feel that for that particular vaccine, the harm that may come from NOT giving it would be more. So for that person, I can see why a product like this is appealing. They want the benefit from the vaccine, but they want to minimize the potential negative effects from it as well.

what is to say this product does this (other than the claims by the company)? and I can find no evidence that it minimized effects either (again other than the company line)- who's to know whatif any harm it causes?

 

sounds just great, that is my whole issue,too great..... if it was such a super product why isn't a big company pushing it? - it just freaks of "oil"!! 


 

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Old 05-08-2013, 07:59 AM
 
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what is to say this product does this (other than the claims by the company)? and I can find no evidence that it minimized effects either (again other than the company line)- who's to know whatif any harm it causes?

 

sounds just great, that is my whole issue,too great..... if it was such a super product why isn't a big company pushing it? - it just freaks of "oil"!! 

I haven't even looked at the product or the ingredients. I was merely responding to the notion that a product such as this (detoxing from vaccines is not a new concept and in fact a qualified homeopath can address this as well - there are plenty of people who think homeopathy is nonsense too) might be appealing to a subset of people. MDC has lots of advertisements on it's pages that do not have "proof" of efficacy. I personally don't have a problem with it. I don't interpret its presence here to mean they are supporting vaccination. 

 

ETA ok I just went and looked at this product and it's page closely. First of all, if you look at each individual ingredient, and the research that is provided supporting the claims about each ingredient, it seems legit to me. In fact I have spent quite a bit of time researching various vitamins/minerals etc and how they work in the body and there are no mystery ingredients here.  Its pretty straight forward. As for the claims of this product - all it says is that it is a nutritional supplement to support the body during vaccination which I think is a superb idea since vaccines tax the immune system. It is not claiming to act as a "detox" from vaccines. 


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Old 05-08-2013, 08:57 AM
 
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I haven't even looked at the product or the ingredients. I was merely responding to the notion that a product such as this (detoxing from vaccines is not a new concept and in fact a qualified homeopath can address this as well - there are plenty of people who think homeopathy is nonsense too) might be appealing to a subset of people. MDC has lots of advertisements on it's pages that do not have "proof" of efficacy. I personally don't have a problem with it. I don't interpret its presence here to mean they are supporting vaccination. 

 

ETA ok I just went and looked at this product and it's page closely. First of all, if you look at each individual ingredient, and the research that is provided supporting the claims about each ingredient, it seems legit to me. In fact I have spent quite a bit of time researching various vitamins/minerals etc and how they work in the body and there are no mystery ingredients here.  Its pretty straight forward. As for the claims of this product - all it says is that it is a nutritional supplement to support the body during vaccination which I think is a superb idea since vaccines tax the immune system. It is not claiming to act as a "detox" from vaccines. 

 

Marnica, I've been over the page, and clicked the links to the research.  The ad page for VacciShield uses the words "detoxification" or "detox" seven times.  Detoxification is mentioned in the function of 6 out of 9 ingredients.  The claim to detox the body after vaccines may not be front and center, but it's certainly out there.

 

Their links to studies are kind of a classic bibliography salad.  Every article mentioned does indeed reference the ingredient it's closest to on the page.  While all of the articles are labeled as "studies" on the ingredients page, they are not, in fact, all studies.   Because the full journal articles are paywalled, you're looking at the abstracts, not the data, and missing any flaws in methodology or interpretation.  Many of the articles linked strike me as having limited applicability to children of parents who might buy this product.  The first link under L-Glutamine, for example:  2005 Journal of Pediatric Gastrointestinal Nutrition study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625423.

 

The article here is entitled "Intestinal barrier function and weight gain in malnourished children taking glutamine supplemented enteral formula."

 

Is your kid malnourished?  Might intestinal barrier function work differently in malnourished kids (whose guts are probably working overtime to get every last nutrient) then it does in the average healthy child?  Is there anything about the data which suggests that the results may not be applicable in all situations, or might not have been the results of the formula the researchers were trying to study? 

 

Further on down, one of the studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578195) comes up with the suggestion that you eating yogurt with live bacterial cultures may improve immune response to polio shots.  This is obscured in the article, which describes the stuff as "chemically acidified clotted milk."  And here is the fundamental crux of my issue with VacciShield:  IF indeed these ingredients do what it is claimed that they do (and it is not clear to me that this is so), why would I pay $26.99 plus shipping for a two-week supply of a product that I could perfectly well replace with children's multivitamins and yogurt?

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Old 05-08-2013, 09:11 AM
 
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Marnica, I've been over the page, and clicked the links to the research.  The ad page for VacciShield uses the words "detoxification" or "detox" seven times.  Detoxification is mentioned in the function of 6 out of 9 ingredients.  The claim to detox the body after vaccines may not be front and center, but it's certainly out there.

 

Their links to studies are kind of a classic bibliography salad.  Every article mentioned does indeed reference the ingredient it's closest to on the page.  While all of the articles are labeled as "studies" on the ingredients page, they are not, in fact, all studies.   Because the full journal articles are paywalled, you're looking at the abstracts, not the data, and missing any flaws in methodology or interpretation.  Many of the articles linked strike me as having limited applicability to children of parents who might buy this product.  The first link under L-Glutamine, for example:  2005 Journal of Pediatric Gastrointestinal Nutrition study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625423.

 

The article here is entitled "Intestinal barrier function and weight gain in malnourished children taking glutamine supplemented enteral formula."

 

Is your kid malnourished?  Might intestinal barrier function work differently in malnourished kids (whose guts are probably working overtime to get every last nutrient) then it does in the average healthy child?  Is there anything about the data which suggests that the results may not be applicable in all situations, or might not have been the results of the formula the researchers were trying to study? 

 

Further on down, one of the studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15578195) comes up with the suggestion that you eating yogurt with live bacterial cultures may improve immune response to polio shots.  This is obscured in the article, which describes the stuff as "chemically acidified clotted milk."  And here is the fundamental crux of my issue with VacciShield:  IF indeed these ingredients do what it is claimed that they do (and it is not clear to me that this is so), why would I pay $26.99 plus shipping for a two-week supply of a product that I could perfectly well replace with children's multivitamins and yogurt?

As it should be since many of the ingredients are important precursors to glutathione production, which is essential to the detox pathways in the body. 

 

I personally would not spend money on this product (if I vaccinated) because my children get these nutrients already elsewhere. Many of them I give separately to my children already. However many parents don't give supplements so something like this may be appropriate/appealing. I'm not even going to get into the ingredients and if they do what they are claiming they do. That is beyond the scope of this thread and totally off topic. The OP was about whether or not MDC was promoting vaccination by having this product on their site. I don't think it means they are promoting vaccinating - JMHO


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Old 05-08-2013, 09:41 AM
 
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 I don't think it means they are promoting vaccinating - JMHO

 

I know you keep saying this is not promoting (and you can feel that way) but it is not like they are giving away a random nutritional product for "general" over all children's health, this products is marketed for the use with vaccines, not as a mere supplement. The company is marketing it to the vaccinating parent,  it's quite clear who the company wants as a customer. I fail to understand how you don't see the connection.


 

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Old 05-08-2013, 10:01 AM
 
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I know you keep saying this is not promoting (and you can feel that way) but it is not like they are giving away a random nutritional product for "general" over all children's health, this products is marketed for the use with vaccines, not as a mere supplement. The company is marketing it to the vaccinating parent,  it's quite clear who the company wants as a customer. I fail to understand how you don't see the connection.

I can see the connection. I just don't agree that it means they are promoting vaccination. MDC has plenty of members who vaccinate according to schedule or are selective/delayed that may (or may not) be interested in getting a free product like this. Why should those people not benefit from a free giveaway? MDC's position on vaccination has always been pretty clear. Asides from not allowing discussions promoting compulsory vaccination, they are not for or against it. If you and others choose to interpret the presence of a product like this to mean that MDC favors and promotes vaccines (ie is telling members they SHOULD vaccinate)  so be it I guess - I just don't agree. 


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Old 05-08-2013, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I can see the connection. I just don't agree that it means they are promoting vaccination. MDC has plenty of members who vaccinate according to schedule or are selective/delayed that may (or may not) be interested in getting a free product like this. Why should those people not benefit from a free giveaway? MDC's position on vaccination has always been pretty clear. Asides from not allowing discussions promoting compulsory vaccination, they are not for or against it. If you and others choose to interpret the presence of a product like this to mean that MDC favors and promotes vaccines (ie is telling members they SHOULD vaccinate)  so be it I guess - I just don't agree. 

 

well by the definition of promoting certainly fits!  if mothering was not they won't have given it away 

 

the adverting on here (as far as I know) reflects what products they (mothering) agrees with - you don't see certain items promoted here for a reason


 

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

well by the definition of promoting certainly fits!  if mothering was not they won't have given it away 

 

the adverting on here (as far as I know) reflects what products they (mothering) agrees with - you don't see certain items promoted here for a reason

I still don't see it. Lets assume that I agree that by even hosting a give away like this, MDC is actively promoting a product. I still would not make the leap to interpret that to mean they are promoting the practice of vaccination (again giving the message that parents SHOULD do it). I think they are merely recognizing their audience/membership which reflects the fact that there are loads of parents that vaccinate here. In fact I'd be willing to guess that 100% non-vaxers are the minority on MDC. I think we just need to agree to disagree namaste.gif


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 05-08-2013, 12:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I still don't see it. Lets assume that I agree that by even hosting a give away like this, MDC is actively promoting a product. I still would not make the leap to interpret that to mean they are promoting the practice of vaccination (again giving the message that parents SHOULD do it). I think they are merely recognizing their audience/membership which reflects the fact that there are loads of parents that vaccinate here. In fact I'd be willing to guess that 100% non-vaxers are the minority on MDC. I think we just need to agree to disagree namaste.gif

 

why not just give away pampers or formula? there are those who can't use cloth or can't BF - why exclude them?

 

 

 

promoting means to attempt to sell or popularize by advertising or publicity - seems to fit, again, if you don't support the product, you would not give it way or have it advertised here


 

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Old 05-08-2013, 06:11 PM
 
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Vaccishield is a promotional giveaway/advertisement that MDC is sponsoring/advertising/supporting for a product that is intended to be used in conjunction with vaccines and the product even has the vaccine word in it, so yes this means that MDC is supporting/advertising/promoting vaccines. That is really disgusting to be supporting/advertising/promoting vaccines which cause harm and death to children and babies who had no choice in the matter.


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