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#1 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Non-vaxxers, l'll give you three guesses who wants to see you prosecuted for abusing your children. But something tells me that you'll get it right on the first guess. eyesroll.gif

http://articles.philly.com/2013-05-10/news/39144680_1_child-abuse-neglect-first-century-gospel-

He's cloaking the issue by using extreme cases of withholding treatment, but notice that slips in a paragraph about unvaccinated children.

The problem with the whole "medical neglect" construct is that it effectively kills the right to informed consent. It gives doctors unlimited power to punish parents who disobey even the most capricious, anti-science orders. The fragile egoed ones will punish you for seeking a second opinion. We need look no further than that horrible recent case in California. But in Offit's myopic and fanatical world, an already dysfunctional and over-taxed child welfare system should equate somebody who foregoes a birth dose of Hep B vaccination with Jerry Sandusky. That he places those under the same banner disgusts me. He is trivializing the sheer hell that Sandusky's victims endured, greensad.gif

In his utopia, liability-free vaccine gets invented, "researched," approved, marketed, spun, and mandated by an exemption-free police state. And you, dear parent, are not allowed to lift a finger in protest as he and his cronies laugh their way to the bank.

These extremists are dangerous, dangerous people, ladies.

At any rate, are you aware that in the U.S., come states have statutes that expressly forbid using a child' vax status to prosecute parents for child abuse?

Also, what is your response to all of the Internet trolls who argue that you are abusing your children and should have them taken away from you? Does withholding one or more vaccines constitute child abuse?

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#2 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 07:21 AM
 
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Everything I have to say about that man would probably constitute a uav. 

 

There is some interesting legislature in Colorado right now regarding Naturopaths and has some rules pertaining to children and whether or not they may be legally allowed to see one. I'll try to find it and ome back later.

 

I think that stuff like this actually tends to drive a bigger wedge between parents and the medical system leaving children even more vulnerable when a parent is afraid to seek care because they may be accused of neglect by the doctor and have cps show up ready to take their children.

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#3 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 09:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post

.

 

I think that stuff like this actually tends to drive a bigger wedge between parents and the medical system leaving children even more vulnerable when a parent is afraid to seek care because they may be accused of neglect by the doctor and have cps show up ready to take their children.

I agree.

 

I think parents are ultimately responsible for seeking medical care for their children when they are ill.

 

However, I think medical professionals can do a lot to foster a good relationship with parents.  This is especially important with babies as babies can go downhill fast.  Sadly, this is not what is happenning - doctors terminate relationship over vax status, refuse to accept patients over it (would you consider that discrimination?) and often bully patients over vaxxing.  Not all doctors do this, of course (got to put in the caveat!).

 

So, yeah, parents are responsible for not seeking medical care when needed, but medical professionals have an obligation (IMO) to make themselves approachable and accessible.   


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#4 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 10:02 AM
 
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Maybe medical professionals should attend to their own issues.

 

Iatrogenic deaths, USA

 

http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#5 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 11:42 AM
 
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Geez Louise! I'm glad my kids doc is pretty cool so far that we don't vax, he sez "It's really nice to not have to be the mean Dr who tortures kids for once" lol

The measles case referenced in the article says basically 1424 ppl were infected, and there were 9 deaths overall, is that not 1%? I mean statistically, that's really not that bad.

I guess the families that all their children died of pneumonia is pretty extreme.
But that's not grounds to completely revoke religious exemption.

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#6 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 11:45 AM
 
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This part makes me see red:

 

Quote:
if parents decide not to give their children antibiotics for meningitis, or insulin for diabetes, or chemotherapy for cancer,

Chemotherapy is not the only treatment for cancer, and it is not always the best treatment. Who the Hell should tell me how to deal with cancer? I will be flying straight to the Gerson Clinic or one of the many other competent, successful treatment  centers. Chemo would be my last resort, but not if Offit has anything to say about it!

 

And, I like the part about the unvaccinated spreading measles to the vaccinated. Didn't their vaccines work????

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#7 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 11:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

.

And, I like the part about the unvaccinated spreading measles to the vaccinated. Didn't their vaccines work????

Exactly!!

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#8 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 03:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

This part makes me see red:

 

Chemotherapy is not the only treatment for cancer, and it is not always the best treatment. Who the Hell should tell me how to deal with cancer? I will be flying straight to the Gerson Clinic or one of the many other competent, successful treatment  centers. Chemo would be my last resort, but not if Offit has anything to say about it!

 

And, I like the part about the unvaccinated spreading measles to the vaccinated. Didn't their vaccines work????

thumb.gif

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#9 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 03:41 PM
 
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Here is the info on the Colorado legislation on Naturopaths... Last I heard the Senate Bill had passed, not sure on the House Bill.

 

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/CDCEE234E81BA08287257AEE0058374A?open&file=1111_rer.pdf - See page 9 (1111)

 

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/17085CB132014F9987257B090069D788?open&file=215_rer.pdf - page 8 (215)

 

This prohibits a naturopath from seeing a patient under two years of age and any patient between two and eight must meet qualifications including requiring them to give information on the latest vaccination schedule from the cdc.

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#10 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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censored.gif Grrrr! Seriously??? I wouldn't have seen this medical machismo going on in CO, but I guess it's everywhere. irked.gif
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In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
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#11 of 18 Old 05-11-2013, 07:14 PM
 
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OP, u mentioned something about certain states that more or less protect parents from being charged with abuse due to vax status. Care to share a little more?

bfinfant.gif  Breastfeeding, non-vaxing, homeschooling, baby wearing, cosleeping, non-cic'ing mama to CJsuperhero.gifAGdust.gifJJnono02.gifSDbabyboy.gif  And married my highschool sweetheart lovestory.gif

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#12 of 18 Old 05-12-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A doc once told me California, but I can't find the law. Idaho for sure. I can't cut and paste, but www.nvic.org has links to all of the state laws.
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#13 of 18 Old 05-12-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have any of you pondered the sheer ridiculousness of the non-vax=child abuse argument? Making an informed-consent medical decision with an extremely complex risk-benefit puzzle--based on diseases and reactions that are both unlikely to occur--is not the same as directly and physically beating, molesting, raping, torturing, or murdering a small child. It sickens me that somebody could stoop so low as to trivialize child abuse like this. greensad.gif Offit owes abuse victims a public apology.

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#14 of 18 Old 05-13-2013, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

A doc once told me California, but I can't find the law. Idaho for sure. I can't cut and paste, but www.nvic.org has links to all of the state laws.

This is written into the definition of medical neglect/abuse in my state: http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?Q=316956

 

 

 

Quote:
Medical neglect is:
  • the refusal or failure on the part of the person responsible for the child's care to seek, obtain, and/or maintain those services for necessary medical, dental, or mental health care
  • withholding medically indicated treatment from disabled infants with life-threatening conditions.
Note: Failure to provide the child with immunizations or routine well child care in and of itself does not constitute medical neglect.
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#15 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 08:01 AM
 
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It is misdemeanor child neglect in WV to not fully vaccinate school aged children against certain things (like measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis). Health dept spokeswoman clarified that this is for all school aged children, even if they are homeschooled. So, here we are sitting on the state line, with cheaper hone prices out of our reach because there is no way we're going to risk moving into WV...
The health dept even has to "approve" medical exemptions for them to be accepted. Crazy
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#16 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 08:28 AM
 
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It is misdemeanor child neglect in WV to not fully vaccinate school aged children against certain things (like measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis). Health dept spokeswoman clarified that this is for all school aged children, even if they are homeschooled. So, here we are sitting on the state line, with cheaper hone prices out of our reach because there is no way we're going to risk moving into WV...
The health dept even has to "approve" medical exemptions for them to be accepted. Crazy

I think it's sad actually. To think that an entire state feels that parents that make a carefully thought out, highly researched medical choice for their child are basically neglectful and deserve to be treated like criminals. That's a crock given that the amount of research/ time/thought that non-vaccinating parents put into their choice (most of the time) actually contradicts the definition of neglect. Makes me soooooo Cuss.gif

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#17 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 08:57 AM
 
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It is misdemeanor child neglect in WV to not fully vaccinate school aged children against certain things (like measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis). Health dept spokeswoman clarified that this is for all school aged children, even if they are homeschooled. So, here we are sitting on the state line, with cheaper hone prices out of our reach because there is no way we're going to risk moving into WV...
The health dept even has to "approve" medical exemptions for them to be accepted. Crazy

And is the health of children in WV superior to that of other states with easier exemptions?  I highly, highly doubt it. 

 

I get so peeved with the governement hyper focusing on vaccine while ignoring other health indicators.

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#18 of 18 Old 05-14-2013, 11:13 AM
 
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WV children certainly do not have superior health, that's for sure. Overall, WV has pretty terrible health issues and a big obesity problem... No pun intended.

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