To start vaccinating 2 year old, or not... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 22 Old 05-11-2013, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DS will soon be two, and I've postponed all his shots so far, not according to a strict plan, but because when I weighed the pros and cons, I decided to avoid each vaccine for the first year, and then once he was 1, rather than revisiting the issue in depth, I decided to wait another year (our 1st naturopath, though she didn't recommend avoiding all vaccines, did recommend putting off most until 2y, so I was kind of using this number as a guide).

I go back and forth on the value of tetanus vaccination, and less so for measles, but I think about that one, too. But the rest of them? I just don't feel like the risk of unnecessary medicine outweighs the benefit of whatever degree of protection the vaccines afford.

If I decide to start vaccinating him, honestly it will be out of fear- not of disease, but of the hate being directed boldly and blatantly against anyone who questions vaccines. If someone disagrees with my choice and wants to have an argument, that's one thing, but i can't take the idea of vicious, irrational hatred being directed at my sweet boy.

I'm scared of some potential future scenario in which we are stripped of our rights and he is forcibly injected with multiple vaccines all at once, or is denied medical care in an emergency, or we are blacklisted because someone "finds out."

I guess this post is about 2 things-
1 me weighing the decision to vax or not
2 me venting about my fear of social repercussions if we don't.

Any thoughts you can share would be welcome.

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#2 of 22 Old 05-11-2013, 09:39 PM
 
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Nothing much to add except that I'm probably very similar to you situation-wise and philosophically, except with my oldest turning nine this year, I now have to consider that whole, "should I vax before puberty" thing (thinking MMR there specifically).

 

The one we've been considering is the dT. There's no pediatric DT here in Australia. It was discontinued about seven years ago. We had been discussing using the dT as a primary series for DD (now 8) but then the latest version of the Aussie gov't Immunisation Handbook came out last month and they upped the age by two years to 10 and older. I'm not sure why. I'll have to see if our GP is still willing to go with our original plan or if he wants to wait until age 10. I don't think there's been any studies in the past couple of years to support it. It seems to be a recommendation just to get younger kids to do the DTPa instead (which coincidentally also got its upper limit increased to, surprise, 10 years and younger). 

 

Like everyone on here says, only you can know what's right for you and your family. For us, I know we'll never get everything on the whole schedule. Thus, we have to find a way to work with our GP and get the select couple of vaccines that we are considering and still keep our CO in place to keep from being harassed to no end by the health department and also legally discriminated against re: tax benefits for our kids' status (families with kids not up to date and with no CO in place lose any child tax benefits). Sucks that the system is set up that way. 


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#3 of 22 Old 05-12-2013, 09:03 AM
 
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I guess this post is about 2 things-
1 me weighing the decision to vax or not
2 me venting about my fear of social repercussions if we don't.

Any thoughts you can share would be welcome.

 

1.  I am wondering why age 2 is a significant number for you?  I am fairly opposed to vaxxing, unless there is a demonstrated need, but if I did want consider vaxxing, it would not be till age 5 or so.  There has been too much "anecdotal evidence"  (and studies, court cases, etc) for me to push aside the idea that vaccines and autism might be linked.  As such I would wait until the period when regressions can happen is over. This is extra important for a boy, for whom the risk of autism is 1/34!!! I was on another site (I can look it up if you like) that said that out of 10 000 children studied, none of them  had language /communication regressions after age 5).   I am also interested in the whole blood brain barrier angle, as well as the whole "don't vaccinate while teething angle."  I don't know enough about either to really comment, but both should be less of an issue after age 4 or 5.  I really thing vaxxing is one of those better late than early things, and I think 2 is too young.  Many 2 year olds do not communicate properly yet - they will not be able to tell you of any reactions.  Other issues that may influence your vaccine decisions (such as asthma, allergies, etc) are often not present in children by age 2.  OTOH, there are some vaccines that are best if not given as teens (MMR for girls -  I do not know if there are other vaccines).  I suspect that if you are going to give a vaccine, ages 5-10 might be the best period to do so.  

 

2.  are your societal fears based on what you have seen in real life or based on what you have read on the internet?  If it is real life, that would weigh heavier than what I have seen on the internet.  I think we tend to talk about when things go wrong on the internet: the lack of parental choice, the blacklisting and doctors being annoying - because we are enraged these things happen.   I don't know if we have a great idea of how often these happen  (are they rare?  common?),  or regional differences.   My story:

 

1.  I have been annoyed by medical professionals with regards to vaccine, but never bullied by one.  I have never, ever felt they would deny me or my children care over vax decisions.  

 

2.  I have lost no friends or family members to  vaccine decisions. 

 

3.  We have never had any trouble with enrolling in schools, camps, etc.  

 

I hope this does not sound harsh, but I would have real difficulty living with myself if my child had a vaccine reaction - and I knew I partly gave the child the vaccine for "fitting in" purposes. I think societal pressure will be really cold comfort if something goes wrong.  

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#4 of 22 Old 05-13-2013, 12:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post

DS will soon be two, and I've postponed all his shots so far, not according to a strict plan, but because when I weighed the pros and cons, I decided to avoid each vaccine for the first year, and then once he was 1, rather than revisiting the issue in depth, I decided to wait another year (our 1st naturopath, though she didn't recommend avoiding all vaccines, did recommend putting off most until 2y, so I was kind of using this number as a guide).

I go back and forth on the value of tetanus vaccination, and less so for measles, but I think about that one, too. But the rest of them? I just don't feel like the risk of unnecessary medicine outweighs the benefit of whatever degree of protection the vaccines afford.

If I decide to start vaccinating him, honestly it will be out of fear- not of disease, but of the hate being directed boldly and blatantly against anyone who questions vaccines. If someone disagrees with my choice and wants to have an argument, that's one thing, but i can't take the idea of vicious, irrational hatred being directed at my sweet boy.

I'm scared of some potential future scenario in which we are stripped of our rights and he is forcibly injected with multiple vaccines all at once, or is denied medical care in an emergency, or we are blacklisted because someone "finds out."

I guess this post is about 2 things-
1 me weighing the decision to vax or not
2 me venting about my fear of social repercussions if we don't.

Any thoughts you can share would be welcome.

I get the fear. I also live with the fear of things "potentially" happening. But honestly that is for me to manage that fear - not to have my child assume risk so i can feel better.  I'm not going to do something I think will be harmful to my child because of fear that he "might" run into issues in the future. If you really feel that the benefit of an actual vaccine is greater than it's risk for a certain disease, than I suppose getting that vaccine would make sense for your family. But doing something out of fear of societal pressure or hate (which isn't even happening right now right?) is not a good reason to proceed IMO. The whole social repercussions thing is something I always think of like Ill cross that bridge if and when I ever get to it. So far I haven't gotten to it orngbiggrin.gif

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#5 of 22 Old 05-13-2013, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for your responses. I think you've given me some good things to think about. I want to be clear, my fear of societal pressure is specifically with regard to my son- I worry that at some point he will be forced to "catch up" all at once, or that he will be denied appropriate treatment because of vax status.

In the last month we've had 2 doctors' visits, one urgent care for an injury, and one with his normal doctor but also for an injury. He's wildly active (the kid started walking at 7.5 months!) and protecting him from harm is a far greater challenge than I experienced with my first two. So I am genuinely concerned not only about tetanus, but about run ins with medical professionals who may have a strong bias against non vaccinators.

Beyond medical and perhaps school officials, I don't see any reason anyone should know whether he's vaccinated, so my issue isn't with individual or community backlash, I am just fearful that the increasing anti non vax sentiment out there will someday manifest in a way that will hurt him. I have started seeing bumper stickers in our area that say "antivaxxers make us sick", and that level of intolerance scares and disgusts me.

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#6 of 22 Old 05-13-2013, 07:16 PM
 
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There are some jobs and maybe training that required vaxxing, but I tend to think that is a mid teen/late teen issue - not a little boy one.

 

There is a an excellent chance he won't want to be a nurse, join the peace corps or join the military ;)  if he does, and if he knows even 18 months ahead of time, he will not need to catch up all at once.  You might be able to titre out of them as well.  People over age 7 often require less shots to be "fully vaccinated" 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/child/catchup-schedule-pr.pdf


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#7 of 22 Old 05-14-2013, 07:10 PM
 
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I have to say after having my DD react very poorly to the 2 rounds of vaxxes she did recieve at 2 and 5mos, no amount of blacklisting or societal pressure woud change my mind on vaxing.  I've never gone around friends or acquaintances and said "hi, here's my kid, she's not vaxxed" but I've also never backed away from their questions when they ask why and I certainly haven't backed down when they've gotten snippy or demeaning.  I'm fairly open about our vax choices and where we stand without coming right out and saying so. I have no doubt it will come up in conversation (actually I have one friend in particular in mind whom I guarantee will pressure her in some way or make rude comments about us to her children like she did about breastfeeding which backfired when her oldest wanted to sit and talk with me while I nursed DD...anywho!) and it's something I'm prepared to explain to my child and arm her with information so that she doesn't feel like the odd man out. 

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#8 of 22 Old 05-14-2013, 07:31 PM
 
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Thanks for your responses. I think you've given me some good things to think about. I want to be clear, my fear of societal pressure is specifically with regard to my son- I worry that at some point he will be forced to "catch up" all at once, or that he will be denied appropriate treatment because of vax status.

In the last month we've had 2 doctors' visits, one urgent care for an injury, and one with his normal doctor but also for an injury. He's wildly active (the kid started walking at 7.5 months!) and protecting him from harm is a far greater challenge than I experienced with my first two. So I am genuinely concerned not only about tetanus, but about run ins with medical professionals who may have a strong bias against non vaccinators.

Beyond medical and perhaps school officials, I don't see any reason anyone should know whether he's vaccinated, so my issue isn't with individual or community backlash, I am just fearful that the increasing anti non vax sentiment out there will someday manifest in a way that will hurt him. I have started seeing bumper stickers in our area that say "antivaxxers make us sick", and that level of intolerance scares and disgusts me.

hug.gif Make all of your medical decisions based on facts and evidence weighed your own values and the risks/benefits you're willing to assume. Never, ever make them based on guilt, fear, bullying, or meeting someone else's standards for approval.

Nothing tests our courage quite like being mothers. We must press forward even in the face of hostile pediatricians, government bullying, yellow journalism, and the inexcusable hate speech on those bumper stickers. If your son initiates wanting vaccinated for one or more diseases, or if you both have a talk and decide that, for example, a tetanus shot may be the way to go, that's perfectly reasonable. But don't let anything or anybody else intimidate you into these decisions.
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#9 of 22 Old 05-14-2013, 10:48 PM
 
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Measles isn't a huge issue. According to my dad, it was a common childhood disease that got seriously blown out of proportion. Tetanus is a disease that is seriously lied about. From what I've read, tetanus is actually a bacteria found in soil, and most commonly horse manure. So unless you're walking around barefoot in a farm and step on a nail that was once covered in horse manure, there really is no reason to worry. Many, many people come out of tetanus just fine, as long as you take care of the wound and keep it clean. My 2 cents.

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#10 of 22 Old 05-14-2013, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. The responses here are helping me- I don't have anyone irl to bounce ideas like this off- except DP, and he just says, "hell no, they're not injecting that crap into my kid!" lol

Kathy, your earlier point about age is well taken.

I suspect I may be more paranoid than some of you. I'm living in fear of a police state like crackdown on anyone not vaccinated. I hope that's just science fiction, but ever since watching the lead up to the Iraq invasion, I'm convinced this country is crazy ruling over stupid.
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#11 of 22 Old 05-14-2013, 11:09 PM
 
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Since you are projecting possible future events, imagine all the possibilities. What if the pendulum starts swinging the other way, right after he is vaccinated. What if he has a severe reaction to his first vaccination. And whatever other senarios you can think of. Then rate each one. How much would you regret your decision for each. Then... follow your gut. But not your fear.
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#12 of 22 Old 05-14-2013, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Good thoughts, pek64. Thanks for the alternate perspective.

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#13 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 03:05 PM
 
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I also worry about martial law, but hopefully we'll never face that. And even if we do, at least their immune systems should be hearty enough to handle it. And we can rest in the knowledge that as a mother we have done our best to do the right thing, follow our instincts, and made well informed and thought out decisions for our family's best interest.

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#14 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, 3Lil. I think you're right. I just really do worry about the erosion of our rights to informed consent and ability to make medical decisions for our children. greensad.gif

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#15 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 05:13 PM
 
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You can worry 24/7 and it will do no good. You can't control the state of our country, so honestly worrying is probably one of the worst things u can do. It will cause u to make your decision based on fear instead of facts. Collect all the relevant info you can, analyze it, study it, know it, and then make the decision that's right for you today, regardless of what tomorrow brings
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#16 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's true if the things you're worried about ate irrational. I worry (among other things and not without basis) that it may be difficult or impossible in our state to get exemptions when my children start school, and that they will have to "catch up" within a short time frame. If I suspect I will have to vaccinate them anyway, it isn't illogical to want those vaccines spread out as much as possible. I am just wondering when a "safe" time to begin that process would be. As I said earlier, our ND recommended waiting until age 2 for most vax, so as 2 approaches, I have reopened this can of worms. What kathymuggle said earlier in terms of age has given me a lot to think about, and makes me more inclined to wait longer. But I have more research to do, and I don't feel a sense of urgency.

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#17 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 09:00 PM
 
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i agree with sassyfirechick. after watching my 2 year old daughter suffer seizures, hospitalizations and now have an epilepsy diagnosis (immediately following the pediarix vax), i could care less what anyone thinks of me not allowing anymore vaccinations. K.M.A.!! 

 

however, i can so relate to how you are feeling right now. i also waited until age 2 for my kids to begin any vaxx, and i was scared, unsure and ultimately gave in to pressure from the environment. it is hard to know what to do, and to refuse the vaxx means you must be willing to FIGHT in the dr.'s office, and when you are already feeling confused its very difficult.

 

i wish i had trusted my intuitive knowing.


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#18 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, summersmama. Your story about your DD breaks my heart and pisses me off, and it's a great stop sign for me right now.

I do think I'm going to hold off a while longer, maybe reevaluate again at his next birthday. I'm going to really pick the dr's brain at his 2yr well check. We're seeing a different ND now, and he's been very hands off about vax- hasn't even brought them up, ever. I'd like to see what he thinks, and what he'd do for his own kid.

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#19 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 02:05 PM
 
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i would also suggest (in all your spare time with 3 kids, lol!) reading as much as you can about the issue. i am currently reading 'vaccine epidemic' and our DAN dr. suggested 'vaccine illusion'. i did light google research and dr. sears' book before the vaxx, but now that we have had a problem i am reading much deeper into the issue. i feel that the more informed you are (which i know can be tough when you are a busy mama) the more confident you can feel with your decision.


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#20 of 22 Old 05-21-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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i would also suggest (in all your spare time with 3 kids, lol!) reading as much as you can about the issue. i am currently reading 'vaccine epidemic' and our DAN dr. suggested 'vaccine illusion'. i did light google research and dr. sears' book before the vaxx, but now that we have had a problem i am reading much deeper into the issue. i feel that the more informed you are (which i know can be tough when you are a busy mama) the more confident you can feel with your decision.

prepare to have your mind blown - seriously

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#21 of 22 Old 05-21-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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i would also suggest (in all your spare time with 3 kids, lol!) reading as much as you can about the issue. i am currently reading 'vaccine epidemic' and our DAN dr. suggested 'vaccine illusion'. i did light google research and dr. sears' book before the vaxx, but now that we have had a problem i am reading much deeper into the issue. i feel that the more informed you are (which i know can be tough when you are a busy mama) the more confident you can feel with your decision.

prepare to have your mind blown - seriously

Another must read, IMO, is Vaccination Social Violence and Criminality. The Medical Assault on the American Brain by Harris L. Coulter - vaccine damage is not new, just way more prevalent.


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#22 of 22 Old 06-03-2013, 06:56 PM
 
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No time to read? I suggest watching: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pdLMeULoujM.
This is Dr.Tenpenny discussing the risks/ benefits of vaccinations and history of diseases.
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