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#1 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi. I'm a nurse who is doing research regarding the decision by some parents not to vaccinate their children. While I, personally, believe that vaccination is the right choice, I'm not here to lecture or argue. In a way, I'm hoping that you'll educate me. Please explain, in as much detail as you reasonably can, why you choose not to vaccinate, to delay vaccination, or to avoid certain vaccines. If you have an indisputably valid medical reason for not vaccinating, like an allergy to eggs or a history of confirmed reactions to vaccines, this is aimed less at you, but you are more than welcome to contribute.

  • Is there a specific vaccine ingredient that worries you? Which one(s) and why?
  • Do you have a moral, ethical or religious objection to vaccination itself and/or particular vaccines? Please elaborate.
  • Do you doubt the effectiveness of vaccines or generally feel that the risks outweigh the benefits? If so, why?
  • Is there someone you know or something you've heard/read in particular that you convinced you not to vaccinate? Who/what was it and why did it work?
  • If doctors or other healthcare professionals have tried to convince you to vaccinate, why were they unable to convince you? Is there something about them or their arguments that you found untrustworthy?
  • If you can imagine yourself being convinced to vaccinate your children, what would it take to convince you?

 

In short, I suppose I'm wondering what convinced you not to vaccinate and why it worked. Thanks in advance.

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#2 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 05:19 PM
 
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I support vaccination as vital to public and personal health, but if the CDC or xyz pharmaceutical co is trying to crowd source vaccination campaign data, they may want to consider staggering their employees. This is ridiculously transparent. It's kind of insulting.

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#3 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 06:00 PM
 
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Vaccine damage in my firstborn that was denied was enough for me to realize  the medical community is frought with deception. 

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#4 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I support vaccination as vital to public and personal health, but if the CDC or xyz pharmaceutical co is trying to crowd source vaccination campaign data, they may want to consider staggering their employees. This is ridiculously transparent. It's kind of insulting.

 



I'm glad we agree about vaccines. I don't work for the CDC or a pharmaceutical company. In fact, I'm looking for a job. Sorry to disappoint you.

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#5 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Vaccine damage in my firstborn that was denied was enough for me to realize  the medical community is frought with deception. 


I'm sorry to hear about what happened. Would you mind being more specific about the kind of damage?

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#6 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 06:29 PM
 
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I'm glad we agree about vaccines. I don't work for the CDC or a pharmaceutical company. In fact, I'm looking for a job. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

 

 
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Hi. I'm a nurse who is doing research regarding the decision by some parents not to vaccinate their children.

 

 

do you mind explaining what type of job requires you to do research on parents and their private right choices.... yet you are looking for a job ?? - find your statements misleading


 

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#7 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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do you mind explaining what type of job requires you to do research on parents and their private right choices.... yet you are looking for a job ?? - find your statements misleading


I never said the research is job-related. I'm a nurse pursuing a higher degree and the research is academic in nature. I'm looking for a job that will fit my schedule at the same time. So far, most of this discussion has been about me instead of vaccines, and it would be great if we could have an on-topic discussion. It is entirely your choice whether to vaccinate, as it is your choice whether to answer my questions, but I would appreciate a little help. As I said, I'm not trying to change any minds right now, just to better understand the choices of some people in this community. If it makes you feel better, anything I learn here will not be repeated in any kind of article or report, and I doubt I could figure out who you are anyway. I'm just trying to get a better handle on the issue before I get deeper into my work (I'm really only starting it). Thanks.

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#8 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 07:01 PM
 
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Sorry, I'm all funned out. You can go read this thread if you want... http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1385137/reasons-for-not-vaccinating-children/40#post_17383120

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#9 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 07:04 PM
 
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OP, I'm not sure your post is in compliance with the guidelines for this particular area of Mothering. This is a support only forum for those who choose not to vaccinate.

Your post may be better suited in the Vaccine Discussion and Debate Forum, however there is a post already there (was posted today) with almost the same title as yours and everything. It actually kinda sounds like it's written by the same person, come to think of it!

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#10 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 07:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by djrn View Post

Hi. I'm a nurse who is doing research regarding the decision by some parents not to vaccinate their children. 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480952/

 

Here is an article about..... Communicating with parents about vaccination: a framework for health professionals 

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#11 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 07:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

I support vaccination as vital to public and personal health, but if the CDC or xyz pharmaceutical co is trying to crowd source vaccination campaign data, they may want to consider staggering their employees. This is ridiculously transparent. It's kind of insulting.


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#12 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry, I'm all funned out. You can go read this thread if you want... http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1385137/reasons-for-not-vaccinating-children/40#post_17383120

 

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Originally Posted by dalia View Post

OP, I'm not sure your post is in compliance with the guidelines for this particular area of Mothering. This is a support only forum for those who choose not to vaccinate.

Your post may be better suited in the Vaccine Discussion and Debate Forum, however there is a post already there (was posted today) with almost the same title as yours and everything. It actually kinda sounds like it's written by the same person, come to think of it!

 

Thanks for the link. I noticed that thread after the initial response to this one, which seemed to imply that I'm part of a team (I'm not, and that wasn't me). There are a couple of useful responses there, but it seems to be more of a debate about vaccination, which is not what I'm looking for. If this thread is against the rules, I apologize and maybe I'll start a new one elsewhere.

 

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Originally Posted by mama2011 View Post

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480952/

 

Here is an article about..... Communicating with parents about vaccination: a framework for health professionals 

 

Thanks, I've come across similar articles. That one is more about "shaping parental attitudes," to quote it directly, which is not why I started this thread. I'm essentially asking all of you what shaped your attitudes, not trying to shape them myself.

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#13 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 08:27 PM
 
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I never said the research is job-related. I'm a nurse pursuing a higher degree and the research is academic in nature. 

 

 

How does this pertain to your research and please explain the context for this - If you can imagine yourself being convinced to vaccinate your children, what would it take to convince you? this type of question (and the other do as well) you made, comes off as if you are on fishing trip-IMO and really the medical profession could care less what ever the reason (S) are because it is meant to be used against those who choose to exercise their rights

 

academic nature of what type? higher degree, as in what type needs this information from parents? last I checked there are no nursing degrees that require this knowledge 

and how does this type of questioning factor in? does it help to serve the "professional" in better use in persuasion?

are we to be lead into thinking you are writing a paper "of support" as in favor of parents who choose not to vaccinate?

 

 

 

Kathy does put things so well, If you really have a smidgen of interest on why people do not vax, do a forum search. (FYI - it even comes up if you do a googling to find this site - mothering) That question is asked about every 3 months or so, and often has lengthy replies.  


 

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#14 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 08:52 PM
 
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OP, perhaps if you were to give us a little more information. Specifically could you tell us:

What degree you are pursuing, ie Master of Nursing
Which university you are studying with
The name of your research supervisor and his/her contact details
A statement from the ethics committee who approved your project and/or contact details for a member of the committee
The question you are seeking to answer in your research

Thank you
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#15 of 27 Old 06-16-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How does this pertain to your research and please explain the context for this - If you can imagine yourself being convinced to vaccinate your children, what would it take to convince you? this type of question (and the other do as well) you made, comes off as if you are on fishing trip-IMO and really the medical profession could care less what ever the reason (S) are because it is meant to be used against those who choose to exercise their rights

 

academic nature of what type? higher degree, as in what type needs this information from parents? last I checked there are no nursing degrees that require this knowledge 

and how does this type of questioning factor in? does it help to serve the "professional" in better use in persuasion?

are we to be lead into thinking you are writing a paper "of support" as in favor of parents who choose not to vaccinate?

 

 

 

Kathy does put things so well, If you really have a smidgen of interest on why people do not vax, do a forum search. (FYI - it even comes up if you do a googling to find this site - mothering) That question is asked about every 3 months or so, and often has lengthy replies.  

 

Any nursing degree above the associate's degree level typically requires some kind of thesis or research paper. Mine concerns childhood vaccination. This is not going to be used against you. I'm not even sure how I would begin to do that - I don't know your name or where you live, and anything you tell me will not affect your decision not to vaccinate. If I wanted to hide my purposes, I wouldn't have started by saying I favor vaccination and I'm a healthcare professional. My interest is in my own education - for me to better understand why parents choose not to vaccinate. I think my questions are reasonable, but if one of them makes you uncomfortable, you are naturally free not to answer it. Still, I'd prefer that we start focusing on some kind of answer to my questions. In the meantime, I'll try a forum search, but it might be nice to have more direct answers as well.

 

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OP, perhaps if you were to give us a little more information. Specifically could you tell us:

What degree you are pursuing, ie Master of Nursing
Which university you are studying with
The name of your research supervisor and his/her contact details
A statement from the ethics committee who approved your project and/or contact details for a member of the committee
The question you are seeking to answer in your research

Thank you
Kind regards
Kate

 

The level of information you are asking for would be appropriate to discuss if the answers I receive were going to be used directly in a research study, but that's not my plan. I'm only starting, and I came here to better understand the community for my own benefit, before I get deeper into the weeds. That being the case, I prefer to maintain a certain level of anonymity, as I'm sure many members of this community do. Besides, the more information I provide, the more suspicious people seem to get.

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#16 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 04:45 AM
 
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OP, perhaps if you were to give us a little more information. Specifically could you tell us:

What degree you are pursuing, ie Master of Nursing
Which university you are studying with
The name of your research supervisor and his/her contact details
A statement from the ethics committee who approved your project and/or contact details for a member of the committee
The question you are seeking to answer in your research

Thank you
Kind regards
Kate

I see you didn't get your questions answered eitherwinky.gif

 

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Any nursing degree above the associate's degree level typically requires some kind of thesis or research paper. Mine concerns childhood vaccination. 

 

 

sorry but I find it disingenuous to support a paper that I fully know is not PRO anti-vac, no credible degree program wants to hear the other side, it's laughable frankly that one would want to support someone doing so-IMO

 

to think that this type of information is NOT used against those who choose not to vaccinates is absurd, it is used all the time against us, no names need to be used (ETA- names do not need to be used, the portrait is always the same, some with those SUPER rare reactions throw in, a few out-there religious objections and the "privileged" expressing their researched view, etc), it paints an unflattering and inaccurate account all the times because you simple are not writing a PRO anti-vac piece you can present us any way and in the end your paper has to reflect the currant standard (status quo) no matter what


 

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#17 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 08:38 AM
 
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Just as I would refuse to answer the CDC's phone survey questions if they chose my number at random, I would refuse to answer these questions. Sure, it's on a much smaller scale, but still...

 

However, there's nothing keeping anyone from reading prior posts in this forum.

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#18 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I see you didn't get your questions answered eitherwinky.gif

 

 

 

sorry but I find it disingenuous to support a paper that I fully know is not PRO anti-vac, no credible degree program wants to hear the other side, it's laughable frankly that one would want to support someone doing so-IMO

 

to think that this type of information is NOT used against those who choose not to vaccinates is absurd, it is used all the time against us, no names need to be used (ETA- names do not need to be used, the portrait is always the same, some with those SUPER rare reactions throw in, a few out-there religious objections and the "privileged" expressing their researched view, etc), it paints an unflattering and inaccurate account all the times because you simple are not writing a PRO anti-vac piece you can present us any way and in the end your paper has to reflect the currant standard (status quo) no matter what

 

The paper isn't anything yet... so far I have a title page without a title. It isn't about reflecting the "current standard" or status quo, but about backing up any claims with reliable, peer-reviewed literature. If you want to convince people that the current status quo is wrong, it seems to me that the hostile, suspicious attitude I'm getting from most of this community is completely counterproductive. If you want to convince outsiders to accept your beliefs, the first thing you should be willing to do is discuss why you believe what you believe. That's what I asked, and almost no one was willing to give me an answer. Still, I accept your verdict, and I'll stop asking.

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#19 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 06:17 PM
 
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The paper isn't anything yet... so far I have a title page without a title. It isn't about reflecting the "current standard" or status quo, but about backing up any claims with reliable, peer-reviewed literature. If you want to convince people that the current status quo is wrong, it seems to me that the hostile, suspicious attitude I'm getting from most of this community is completely counterproductive. If you want to convince outsiders to accept your beliefs, the first thing you should be willing to do is discuss why you believe what you believe. That's what I asked, and almost no one was willing to give me an answer. Still, I accept your verdict, and I'll stop asking.

This is a support-only forum, as in we are not here looking to convince others of our position but to support one another in our mutual decisions to not vaccinate. If you want to re-ask your questions in the discussion and debate forum, you may get more answers. No guarantees, but it is the more appropriate place for your questions. http://www.mothering.com/community/f/17459/vaccinations-discussion-and-debate

 

While I am at it though... here is a thought on what you could do your paper on ... pharmaceutical companies and other pro-vaxx organizations using their followers to infiltrate groups like this with either rabidly pro-vax rants and/or pretending to be a non-vaxxer and making themselves look crazy. Yeah, it happens. Or maybe on abusive doctors and nurses who scream in mother's faces or threaten to call cps on them or tell them how their are murdering their child by not getting them vaxxed. Or maybe social isolation and bullying against non-vaxxing families. Or media bias like the recent autism and vax study, which included ZERO unvaxxed children in it, and yet somehow the media managed to spin it as though it conclusively proved there was no link between autism and vaccines.

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#20 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is a support-only forum, as in we are not here looking to convince others of our position but to support one another in our mutual decisions to not vaccinate. If you want to re-ask your questions in the discussion and debate forum, you may get more answers. No guarantees, but it is the more appropriate place for your questions. http://www.mothering.com/community/f/17459/vaccinations-discussion-and-debate

 

While I am at it though... here is a thought on what you could do your paper on ... pharmaceutical companies and other pro-vaxx organizations using their followers to infiltrate groups like this with either rabidly pro-vax rants and/or pretending to be a non-vaxxer and making themselves look crazy. Yeah, it happens. Or maybe on abusive doctors and nurses who scream in mother's faces or threaten to call cps on them or tell them how their are murdering their child by not getting them vaxxed. Or maybe social isolation and bullying against non-vaxxing families. Or media bias like the recent autism and vax study, which included ZERO unvaxxed children in it, and yet somehow the media managed to spin it as though it conclusively proved there was no link between autism and vaccines.

 

Since you brought it up, I'll just point out a couple of things. It is generally considered unethical to conduct studies on unvaccinated children, because, even if you disagree, the people conducting the studies believe that it is harmful to children to keep them unvaccinated. It's not because they are trying to hide anything. Also, any scientist will tell you that you can't prove a negative. You can't prove God doesn't exist, you can't prove there isn't a cake at the center of the Sun, and you can't prove that vaccines don't cause autism. Instead, the burden is on the people making the positive claims that God, the cake and the autism link exist. They will tell you that the positive claim that vaccines cause autism requires valid, reliable, peer-reviewed evidence. There is no such evidence after many years of studying the possibility, and as a result, scientists can say with a high degree of confidence that there is no link. If you want to discuss this further I'm happy to take it to the debate forum.

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#21 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 06:56 PM
 
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It is generally considered unethical to conduct studies on unvaccinated children, because, even if you disagree, the people conducting the studies believe that it is harmful to children to keep them unvaccinated. It's not because they are trying to hide anything.

 

We've all heard that one before. Of course there are children already unvaccinated by parental choice. Nothing unethical about studying kids who are already unvaccinated by parental choice. Hey, it would even be an opportunity to get one extra lecture in. I'm sure the ethical guidelines would require a lecture and offering all vaccines free of charge, should the parents change their minds.

 

Of course this wouldn't work for all types of studies, such as double blind placebo controlled, but it would work for some.

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#22 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 07:25 PM
 
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(((sigh))) Gosh, I wish this board was private...

 

This is a "I'm not vaccinating" board. If you are doing research and would like information on why many of us choose not to vaccinate, then perhaps you may want to "research" some older threads. Your agenda is obvious. *yawn*

 

 

Look very closely at my avatar...


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#23 of 27 Old 06-17-2013, 08:01 PM
 
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The other types of studies have occasionally been tried in this case, and as far as I know they have all been poor quality or demonstrated strange/mixed results. 

 

I am not aware of any large studies that have compared unvaccinated and fully vaccinated children. Partially vaccinated vs. fully vaccinated doesn't count. Or vaccinated on a slightly different schedule vs. on schedule. Or missing one certain vaccine vs. not missing that once certain vaccine. Etc.

 

If the government and/or pharmaceutical companies wanted to do it, they would find the money, and they would find a way to do a well designed study. They should be completely confident that the results would show that fully vaccinated children are healthier than unvaccinated children. Those results from a large, well designed study would convince many reluctant parents to vaccinate, I'm sure.

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#24 of 27 Old 06-18-2013, 04:51 AM
 
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This is a support-only forum, as in we are not here looking to convince others of our position but to support one another in our mutual decisions to not vaccinate. 

I also have zero desire to convince anyone of my rights

 

It's so easy (if you really are doing research) to find things - like what this sections is for and NOT for and it's easy to read as well, but if you want things just handed to you without doing the work yourself..........well

 

and I have less than ZERO desire to respond to someone that thinks "vaccines are great" (IMO- that mind is closed shut, no matter what is presented) biglaugh.gif

 

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The paper isn't anything yet... so far I have a title page without a title. It isn't about reflecting the "current standard" or status quo, but about backing up any claims with reliable, peer-reviewed literature. If you want to convince people that the current status quo is wrong, it seems to me that the hostile, suspicious attitude I'm getting from most of this community is completely counterproductive. If you want to convince outsiders to accept your beliefs, the first thing you should be willing to do is discuss why you believe what you believe. That's what I asked, and almost no one was willing to give me an answer. Still, I accept your verdict, and I'll stop asking.


 

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#25 of 27 Old 06-18-2013, 05:33 AM
 
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I started looking at some older threads, but thanks for the suggestion. The claim made in your avatar is false, though I'm not sure what they mean by "official." If you want to discuss it, out of respect for the rules I started a new thread at http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1385228/vaccines-are-great. Please reply there.

i cannot reply to futher threads of yours due to the nature of the title of the new one you started.  Let's just agree to disagree...and as far as my son's vaccine damage, it is not up for discussion, sorry.  If you were simply a mother on here looking for answers, that would be one thing, but you clearly have a set choice of what's right in your mind.  I can't imagine knowing about my son will help your cause.  If anything, i feel it would lead to finger pointing, and the usual 'prove it' tactics and arguments from your side.  Sorry if i seem a little put off, but tthat's what i've been dealing with for 25yrs. 

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#26 of 27 Old 06-18-2013, 06:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djrn View Post

 

If you want to convince outsiders to accept your beliefs, the first thing you should be willing to do is discuss why you believe what you believe. That's what I asked, and almost no one was willing to give me an answer. 

I don't want to convince people to accept my beliefs.  

 

I just want to be left alone to do as I see fit.

 

It is about parental choice.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#27 of 27 Old 06-18-2013, 07:30 AM
 
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sewmachine.gifknit.gifrainbow1284.gifDaughter of Him, Wife and Mother to them partners.gifstillheart.gifstillheart.gifstillheart.gifstillheart.gif,  

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