Just found out day care provider for Fall requires vaxxes - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ack! My DD is 13 months right now. I have to go back to work half time in September. We are hoping my husband can stay with my DD at least a few mornings a week, but it is likely we will need care for her 2-3 days a week for 4.5 hours a day.

We found an unlicensed in-her-home babysitter. She is the parent of a former student of mine. We really like her style, she is affordable, and she is literally less than a block from my work. Seems perfect! We have been talking back and forth for many months about care for my daughter. I never directly asked if she required vaxxes, bc I figured that would be unwise. I did, however, ask things like, "under what circumstances would you exclude a child" and "are there any reasons why you might ask a child to leave." I thought these types of questions might bring out the vax issue if she had one.

We went for a visit this past week. My DD got along great with the other kids and we made the decision to send her there starting late August. I emailed the sitter with some final questions yesterday, one of which was "what do you need from us before she can start?" -another veiled attempt to see if there was a vax requirement. Well, I just checked my email while letting the dogs out. Bad idea. . .she replied that she needed proof of her being up-to-date on her shots! Now, I'm so anxious and upset that I can't go back to sleep!

So, my questions. . .
How should I proceed with her? She is unlicensed, so I assume she isn't required to ask for vaxxes, that it is her preference. Should I ask for an exemption? Does she have to grant me one, or can she do what she wants since she is private/unlicensed? (We are in Oregon.)

Her child goes to the school where I teach and it is a tight knit community, so I worry a little bit about coming out as a "non vaccinator" to my student's families, but this isn't my biggest concern.

Moving forward, say I need to find another provider (ugh,) should I do like this time and not mention it up front, or should I just ask about the vax policy right away?

This is my first issue with not vaccinating and it is so upsetting! I have a little bit of a hard time remembering that most people vaccinate - it seems like by now, most people would know better (haha) so I find it surprising when people do. I guess that's what I get for living in my own little world!!

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#2 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 02:52 AM
 
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What a bummer!

 

If I were you, I wouldn't pursue it further with her.  It'd create an uncomfortable situation if you request an exemption.  If she says yes, that's great.  But how can she say no if she wants to ... given that her kid was your student and that you've been discussing this for a few months, and the small community etc?

 

I'd start looking for backup care and go from there.  For a licensed daycare, find out first if you like the place, if so, then mention if filing a vax exemption would be a problem and just leave it at that.  No need to explain further.  The thing is not to bring up vax until you're sure you like the place - it may raise eyebrows unnecessarily. 

 

You have a few months to figure it out ... don't worry yet ... :)


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#3 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 03:05 AM
 
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How can there be a vaccine requirement if she has no license?  That makes it her personal choice then, not a requirement...a licensed provider will answer your questions right away about exemptions, and if the place takes state funds, they also must accept a waiver. 

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#4 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 03:41 AM
 
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I don't think it serves you to be veiled here. You've spent weeks going back and forth and you could have saved a ton of time with a single, direct question. Even now, it's not completely clear to me that the dcp would insist on all the kids in her care being vaccinated. She may be asking for vaccine records so that she'll know who has been vaxxed for what in the event of an outbreak. She may be asking for the paperwork out of a general sense that that's what pros do.

If vaccination requirements are a deal breaker for you, I think you should ask about them right away so that you don't waste time.
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#5 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 08:04 AM
 
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In Oregon, daycare providers and schools are prohibited from excluding a child due to vaccine exemption status. So stop worrying. Just giver her your exemption instead of the vaccine records.

http://public.health.oregon.gov/PreventionWellness/VaccinesImmunization/GettingImmunized/Documents/SchLawHandbook.pdf

"A school or children’s facility cannot use a child’s exemption status as a reason to deny the child enrollment." (page 35)

 

Even in states other than Oregon, I think it's always best to go into a childcare/school enrollment situation with the attitude that they will accept your exemption. Don't let them know about it until after the child has been officially accepted. Turn in the exemption instead of the vaccine records, like you know your rights. Don't be meek or ask for permission.

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#6 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 09:49 AM
 
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But ma2two, the caregiver the OP is interested in is UNlicensed, meaning she can do whatever she wants.

There is a reason childcare providers, hair stylists, tattoo artists etc are regulated.

Although I respect the comfort level you've gotten to with this person, she's not legally obligated to allow your child into her care, NOR would she be obligated to keep your "secret" about not vaccinating. It's not like there's a HIPPA policy here...

My thought is that you should keep looking :-/

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#7 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post

I don't think it serves you to be veiled here. You've spent weeks going back and forth and you could have saved a ton of time with a single, direct question. Even now, it's not completely clear to me that the dcp would insist on all the kids in her care being vaccinated. She may be asking for vaccine records so that she'll know who has been vaxxed for what in the event of an outbreak. She may be asking for the paperwork out of a general sense that that's what pros do.

If vaccination requirements are a deal breaker for you, I think you should ask about them right away so that you don't waste time.


I'm hoping that she just asks for records as standard procedure and, like MeepyCat said, so she will know who is vaxxed in case of an outbreak. But. . . her exact words were, "she would need to be current on all of her shots" which sounds like more than just wanting to know what vaxxes she's had. I will have to address it with her, because it would be really odd at this point to just change our minds without giving her any reason.  That would be way more awkward than asking for an exemption.  I guess my choices are to: just fill out an exemption form and confidently give it to her in place of the shot record, like I expect an exemption to be allowed OR to ask her if she'd accept an exemption.  Maybe it doesn't really matter much which way I do it. . .

 

Regarding her being unlicensed. . . she has worked in licensed facilities and been a nanny for years.  She says that the only reason she isn't licensed is because the children nap upstairs and there is only one set of stairs, so this would not be allowed in a licensed facility for fire safety reasons.  My daughter won't be there at nap time anyway, so this is a non-issue for us.  Now, I don't know all the rules for licensure and haven't fully inspected her home, but I've known her for awhile, really like her parenting and teaching style (for example, was the one parent who asked about what types of snacks the school gave b/c she didn't want her getting candy and artificial stuff,) and trust her.


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#8 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 12:06 PM
 
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Then sounds like she's looking for vax info to cover her butt because she's unlicensed and while you and others don't mind that and are willing to use her for care, it can get her into a legal bind if someone pushes the issue or notifies the proper authorities.  There are other regulations beyond licensing to consider like zoning (whether of not an in-home business is even allowed and under what terms) and health department requirements, so there are many groups that get invovled with child care for various reasons. It's different to be a babysitter and come to someones home - opening up your own home to care for others is very different.  I'd give her the exemption, if she questions it, give her a straight forward answer and if she says no, then look elsewhere rather than try and talk through it.

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#9 of 15 Old 06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
 
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Agree. I would start looking for another mom that can sit a child or two. You are in a tough spot- small community and school student! However, a question that comes to my mind is-.... if the other children are up to date with vax, how can a non vax child contaminate them? The vax kids are considered "covered" with the exception of the common cold, pink eye, stomach bug, and bumps and bruises.
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#10 of 15 Old 06-18-2013, 06:34 AM
 
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The daycare/preschool we have used for my son since he was 11 months old also listed up to date vaccination records on their list of required paperwork, and I just gave them my exemption and we've never had a problem.  It is a little different as the place is licensed, but still, if I were you I'd give her the exemption form. 

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#11 of 15 Old 06-18-2013, 11:44 AM
 
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I'm hoping that she just asks for records as standard procedure and, like MeepyCat said, so she will know who is vaxxed in case of an outbreak. But. . . her exact words were, "she would need to be current on all of her shots" which sounds like more than just wanting to know what vaxxes she's had. I will have to address it with her, because it would be really odd at this point to just change our minds without giving her any reason.  That would be way more awkward than asking for an exemption.  I guess my choices are to: just fill out an exemption form and confidently give it to her in place of the shot record, like I expect an exemption to be allowed OR to ask her if she'd accept an exemption.  Maybe it doesn't really matter much which way I do it. . .

 

Regarding her being unlicensed. . . she has worked in licensed facilities and been a nanny for years.  She says that the only reason she isn't licensed is because the children nap upstairs and there is only one set of stairs, so this would not be allowed in a licensed facility for fire safety reasons.  My daughter won't be there at nap time anyway, so this is a non-issue for us.  Now, I don't know all the rules for licensure and haven't fully inspected her home, but I've known her for awhile, really like her parenting and teaching style (for example, was the one parent who asked about what types of snacks the school gave b/c she didn't want her getting candy and artificial stuff,) and trust her.


 

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Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

How can there be a vaccine requirement if she has no license?  That makes it her personal choice then, not a requirement...a licensed provider will answer your questions right away about exemptions, and if the place takes state funds, they also must accept a waiver. 


Exactly.

I would be up front and say she is as up to date on her shots as she will ever be, as you choose to not vaccinate.

Some times DCP ask these things more for the parents benefit than their own. As in "This mom keeps asking me ______...Hmm, shes fishing for something that I haven't addressed, I want her as a client. What could it be?"

You may have over fished.

 

Also, a fam member does DC in Oregon and she accepts exemption forms from non vax. As long as it is filed then that is all  that is required by law, IIRC.


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#12 of 15 Old 06-18-2013, 02:37 PM
 
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I see another concern here - it seems to me that an unlicensed care-giver really has no right to such personal health information as vaccination records. As someone with experience in the licensed side of the industry, she should be aware of the laws regulating the request and disclosure of such information, and know that she really has no grounds to make the request. As you seem to know her pretty well and are confident in her as  good caregiver, I might simply have a talk about her with the situation and offer her the state waiver. Certainly she seems OK with bending the rules for her own means, then I have a hard time seeing where she can have complaints about someone who is exercising their legal right not to immunize their child.

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#13 of 15 Old 06-19-2013, 12:21 PM
 
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I see another concern here - it seems to me that an unlicensed care-giver really has no right to such personal health information as vaccination records. As someone with experience in the licensed side of the industry, she should be aware of the laws regulating the request and disclosure of such information, and know that she really has no grounds to make the request. As you seem to know her pretty well and are confident in her as  good caregiver, I might simply have a talk about her with the situation and offer her the state waiver. Certainly she seems OK with bending the rules for her own means, then I have a hard time seeing where she can have complaints about someone who is exercising their legal right not to immunize their child.

 

I do not recommend taking this attitude with any care provider.

 

On the one hand, no, she has no right to ask for any information.  On the other, she has no obligation to accept your kid into care. 

 

There are plenty of legit reasons for care providers to be unlicensed, and for parents to use unlicensed care.  Going with an unlicensed care provider does mean that the parent loses some of the benefits of licensure, but if you're hung up on those benefits, my recommendation is to search for licensed care.  If you don't trust the unlicensed care to treat your personal information with care and sensitivity, don't use that caregiver.  If you're going to demand that she bend her rules for you just because she doesn't go by the state rules, expect her to choose not to do business with you after all.

 

Asking for records of the last physical/immunization can mean a lot to a care provider.  It is, for one, a means of her guaranteeing that each child has a pediatrician (who she can require you to see before bringing a previously sick kid back to her care).  Daycare providers can wind up made parties to cases of parental neglect, when there is no pediatrician and the caregiver feels that taking a sick kid into care anyway is in the best interests of the child (abusive parents can put really awful pressure on DCPs).  Making sure the kid has a pediatrician is some protection for the DCP against that.  Having info about last physical and pediatrician is also very helpful if the DCP ever has to take your child to the emergency room.  Hopefully, that would never be an issue, but accidents happen. 

 

You should also be aware that, once you have a child who talks, the DCP is likely to wind up knowing everything about your family life.  Kids have no sense of discretion. 

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#14 of 15 Old 06-19-2013, 04:45 PM
 
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I do not recommend taking this attitude with any care provider. Neither do I!

 

 

You should also be aware that, once you have a child who talks, the DCP is likely to wind up knowing everything about your family life.  Kids have no sense of discretion. 

Kids can talk a lot and they can tell LOTS of people how they do not get shot! ROTFLMAO.gif


 

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#15 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Update:

Phew. . . positive resolution!

 

I responded to the DCP via email.  I had to respond to a few different things in the email.  I included this near the end, "Regarding shots: she has an exemption.  Will a copy of that suffice?"  I decided to be casual and matter-of-fact about it (even though I there was a giant ball of emotion wrapped up in that little question!)

 

Her response was, "A copy would work great. Thank you!"

 

So simple.  I guess I was all worked up about nothing. . . But, it was the first encounter I've had regarding vaccines and I've heard of the horror stories other people had, so I was really nervous.

 

Thank you all for giving your thoughts and suggestions. They really helped me to think through the problem, calm down, and address it.  I'm so glad this forum is here!  My family doesn't give me any trouble about not vaccinating, but I don't think they fully trust that decision, so it really helps to have such a great place to go for advice.

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