I'm concerned about my friend's six month old who is having a reaction today. - Mothering Forums
I'm Not Vaccinating > I'm concerned about my friend's six month old who is having a reaction today.
aurora_skys's Avatar aurora_skys 09:53 PM 06-20-2013

Hi all, it's been a while since I've done much research on vaccines so I'm looking to you all for some quick advice.

 

An acquaintance of mine has a six month old daughter whom she vaccinates. I believe she "fully" vaccinates, from what she's said although I try not to pry. At the four month shots she had mild reactions like crying/fussing but now she's had her six month shots (including rotavirus) and is running a fever and vomiting everything she nurses. Apparently this baby has had problems with vomiting before. So wouldn't this be a baby with a history of gastro intestinal distress which means she is not a "safe" candidate for rota virus anyways??

 

Obviously it's too late for that now and her mother is deep into the dogma (she's making herself feel better by saying that the vomiting now is better than actually catching rotavirus and going on about how "most children" with rota require hospitalization etc, you know the drill). So I'm not trying to give her research to lead her away from vaccinating but I am concerned because her baby's vaccine reactions are getting worse with every "check up." She's fully aware that these are vaccine reactions, she doesn't pretend it's anything else. So at least she's aware...

 

Where is some good reading on this topic? I'm worried that this baby is going to be dealing with something far worse than vomiting and fever if her mom keeps up with the aggressive vaccination schedule.



mama24-7's Avatar mama24-7 07:57 AM 06-21-2013

I'm sorry, I don't have any reading material to suggest.  If you don't get any or perhaps in addition to, you could ask, if you're comfortable, some specific, open ended questions?  Like, "what do you think the reaction will be next time?"  I hope this baby is okay. goodvibes.gif

 

Sus


emmy526's Avatar emmy526 08:54 AM 06-21-2013

The thing is, if she is closed to the idea of vaccines causing harm, NO book is going to be convincing to her.  I agree with open ended questions you should ask for now, to plant a seed of maybe, she should do some thinking for herself, instead of just blindly trusting a dr.  A few examples would be:  '' how are you going to handle the next round of vaccine reactions if these ones are that bad? Doesn't it concern you she is reacting in the out of normal range?  Oh, your dr said it's normal? are you aware there are drs who disagree on this, and admit vaccines can cause harm? Did you know the diseases they give vaccines for don't exist in the wild anymore, but exist due to the vaccine itself?  Are you familiar with the flu shot failure rate, and did you know the childrens version for babies of 6mos of age, has mercury in it, but the AAP is ok with giving babies that?"

 

Those and whatever else you can think of....


Marnica's Avatar Marnica 08:58 AM 06-21-2013

Based on this baby's reactions, no provax doctor is going to tell your friend that this baby should not continue. What you have described would be considered a "normal" reaction or they would say its a cooincidence or the baby just happened to get a bug after she had her shots.

 

Planting some seeds in your friends head is the way to go and hopefully she will do some research of her own. But if she is fully entrenched in the dogma, chances are she won't until the baby has a much more severe reaction - so sad 


MeepyCat's Avatar MeepyCat 09:12 AM 06-21-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

The thing is, if she is closed to the idea of vaccines causing harm, NO book is going to be convincing to her.  I agree with open ended questions you should ask for now, to plant a seed of maybe, she should do some thinking for herself, instead of just blindly trusting a dr.  A few examples would be:  '' how are you going to handle the next round of vaccine reactions if these ones are that bad? Doesn't it concern you she is reacting in the out of normal range?  Oh, your dr said it's normal? are you aware there are drs who disagree on this, and admit vaccines can cause harm? Did you know the diseases they give vaccines for don't exist in the wild anymore, but exist due to the vaccine itself?  Are you familiar with the flu shot failure rate, and did you know the childrens version for babies of 6mos of age, has mercury in it, but the AAP is ok with giving babies that?"

 

Those and whatever else you can think of....

 

Sounds like a fab way to get her to stop returning your calls.


emmy526's Avatar emmy526 09:15 AM 06-21-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post

 

Sounds like a fab way to get her to stop returning your calls.

i certainly didn't mean bombard the woman with all those at once...they are simply a reference to ponder when thinking of things to ask

 

What is your useful suggestion to add to the OP?


MamaMunchkin's Avatar MamaMunchkin 10:02 AM 06-21-2013

Is she worried at all?

 

If yes, then it'll make sense to help her and give her some reading materials.

 

If not, not sure, it's her kid at the end of the day. 

 

I'm just imagining if a pro-vaxer friend starts giving me all these infos about all the bad things that can happen from not vaxing, I'd not be happy - even if I know it's because she's worried about my kid.


sassyfirechick's Avatar sassyfirechick 03:05 PM 06-21-2013

Vomiting and diarrhea are considered "normal" reactions to the rota vax - my LO had horrid stomache cramping and blowouts for a week following the 2mo oral rota before we stopped vaxxing.  Not much you can do to convince people otherwise.  I've got a friend w a preemie who just had the full round of 4mo vaxes - her adjusted age is only 2.5mos yet she's been fully vaxed all along and has so so so many issues already. She's been having skin issues with open wounds that flare immediately following vaxes yet she refuses to see a connection.  Sadly even serious issues aren't always enough to convince some people to consider otherwise. 


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 03:57 PM 06-22-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post

 

Sounds like a fab way to get her to stop returning your calls.

Meepy, you are absolutely right.  

 

How would you suggest approaching a friend whose baby is having an unrecognized adverse reaction to a vaccine?  I am at a loss myself as to how to approach this.  

 

You know my history--my children have had very serious vaccine reactions, and when the nurse said (wrongly) that I was over-reacting, I certainly didn't want to argue with her. I know all too well how easy it is to be in denial in this situation, when the Learned, Highly Educated and Extremely Experienced Medical Professionals tell you (wrongly) that it's all in your head.  If someone had tried to tell me that it was a vaccine reaction right after I'd been told it was all in my head, I don't think I would have taken it too well.

 

But in retrospect, I really, really really wish someone had done so.

 

What approach would you suggest?


MeepyCat's Avatar MeepyCat 10:21 PM 06-22-2013

Taxi, keeping in mind that this is the "I'm not vaccinating" forum, there is not a ton that I can say.  I certainly have no hesitation arguing with nurses or doctors who think I'm overreacting.  I have been that mom, and I will be again.  (I have brought my own mom to meetings with my oncologist so that *she* can be that mom, and I have been glad.)  I would encourage anyone who felt the need to embrace their inner annoying patient, because squeaky wheels get quality medical care.

 

That said - The child in question is not having alarming health problems, or unusual reactions to vaccines.  My kids were fussy for a day or two after some of their shots, my DS ran some fevers.  I called the pediatrician's office about the fevers, but they were mild and didn't last long, and are (along with fussiness) on the list of recognized, not particularly uncommon vaccine reactions that the office gave me when we got the shots in the first place.  I would, of course, love for my kids to be comfortable, cheerful, and easygoing all the time, but a day or two of fussiness does not begin to cause me the concern that measles, or pertussis would.  I made the choice that made me most comfortable, as the mother in this scenario also seems to have done (and as the OP has done for herself, and you have, now, apparently done for you). 

 

On the gastro symptoms this time - I really don't know a ton about the child's history ("problems with vomiting" could mean so many things), and can't opine on whether the rota vax was well-advised or not, but (a) I agree with the mom that a few days of gastrointestinal upset as vaccine reaction, while awful, are better then actual rotavirus, which tends to get passed around families something fierce (the time we had it here, we not only puked, we fainted, and the baby got off lightest, what with how he wasn't walking, and therefore didn't fall down - I nearly concussed myself on the edge of the bathtub - but none of us needed the hospital), and (b) gastro illnesses are not infrequently picked up in pediatrician's offices, particularly when they don't segregate well and sick child waiting areas.  With the data we have, we have a range of possibilities going from "gastrointestinally fragile child who should never have been given this vaccine, and is now risking dehydration as a result," to "kid who had some physiological reflux between 1-3 months of age, and picked up a tummy bug by gumming toys in the waiting room."   With the outlying possibility of "we started solids, and now the poor babe has the runs"  (solids are popular things to start at 6 months, and a conversation with the ped might have jump started that). 

 

I would hate to downplay anyone's concerns about a child in front of them, but we are going on second-hand report here, and it's not clear the OP has laid eyes on the baby in the last week.  As a parent, I am hugely suspicious of expertise offered by people who aren't in the room with my kid, and haven't been there lately.

 

The OP might be well-placed to ask if her friend isn't concerned that her child's history of stomach trouble makes rota vaccine a safety concern.  I don't know whether that would plant a seed or not, it might at least get the mom in question to think through the specifics of her child's case.  But if you want to move people to thought, I find that it helps to stay specific to them, and focused on their current concerns.


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 04:46 AM 06-23-2013
Meepy, thank you for you helpful and very thoughtful reply. I think it's a great idea to bring one's mom to appointments. Unfortunately, my experience is that, sometimes squeaky wheels get written off as "the annoying patient who dares to question me,and I'll show HER who is in charge." There are some very nasty doctors/nurses out there.

Vomiting/diarrhea as a vaccine reaction is described as a "mild" side effect. However, a breastfed infant who vomits every feeding does suggest something more than a mild reaction, particularly if there is a history of a gastro issue. The OP was a bit vague on how long "every feeding" lasted. If we're talking more than a few hours, that is not a mild reaction.

I am very surprised that you and your family got rotavirus, as it is spread by fecal-oral transmission.
MeepyCat's Avatar MeepyCat 08:50 AM 06-23-2013
I don't have enough data on the vomiting to say whether it's worrying or not.

Taxi, many many things are spread by the fecal-oral transmission route, which is one of the most common routes for diarrheal illness. Even with good hygiene and considerable care, transmission by that route within families is not surprising. It's not like fecal oral transmission means "just don't lick each other's butts."
Kamiro's Avatar Kamiro 02:01 PM 06-23-2013

Ok, this gave me a chuckle 'just don't lick each other's butts'..Sound advice, I'd say! lol


My daughter got rota virus. It was not so great. Since I was pretty much home bound the best way we could guess she got it was off of one of DH's school partners shoes. She worked in some kind of blood/fecal/urine analysis lab and wore her work shoes in the house where baby was crawling and mouthing every thing, baby got sick about 36 hours later or so after her visit...


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