How to talk to your conventional doctor about not vaccinating - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 22 Old 06-23-2013, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello,  I would appreciate your advice on this topic.   I have been limited by my choices of pediatricians because I have medi-cal.  I have searched for a pediatrician that focuses on a natural approach, but i'm presently stuck with a conventional doctor.    We will be having another appointment in about a month or two.  At our last visit, I declined vaccines stating that we just needed to make an informed choice before we vaccinated.  Now, I am forming my opinion more that vaccines are not right for my child.  He did not turn us away, and he's been known to support an alternative schedule to parents who requested it.   However, he is a traditionally trained doctor and I know that he is in favor of vaccines.  I am having anxiety about our next appointment, because I am dreading having to say that we are not going to do vaccines at all. I am not experienced with this, I am on my first child.  I feel a little uncomfortable because I don't know if my significant other will support me on this.  I don't know anyone in my life that I can discuss this with. 


 Can anyone help me on this one? Thank You.

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#2 of 22 Old 06-23-2013, 07:43 PM
 
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For me, I don't always take them for well visits. I think they can be important, but I notice if I only take the kids in when they are sick, they don't mention vaccines. Or, just continue to tell them you are waiting.

Do not feel like you have to vaccinate if they pressure you. I once had a doctor threaten that my child could DIE if I didn't get the chicken pox vaccine. Sorry, lady, that's the lamest one you could've chosen, haha.

Anyway, be strong and don't expect them to support your decision- aim for them to just respect your right as the mom to refuse medical treatments.

Good luck!
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#3 of 22 Old 06-24-2013, 06:43 AM
 
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I didn't do well baby checks with my unvaxed babies, 2nd and 3rd kiddos though, so I had some 'experience'. Go in to the doctor's office with confidence, and be very clear that the baby won't be having any vaccines, like it or lump it. I really think doctors can sense fear and/or indecision and will take advantage of that to convince parent's to vaccinate.

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#4 of 22 Old 06-24-2013, 10:38 PM
 
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If you're not sure about your significant other supporting you on this, my advice is to come here for advice and support. Because if you make it seem like a big, difficult issue, your SO might lean in favor of vaccinating, to make things "easier" for everybody.

 

I totally understand being a little nervous about the doctor's reaction. It's never comfortable for someone to be disapproving (if that's how the doctor will be--you don't know yet). But what helps me, (and I just dealt with this feeling last week before I turned in exemption paperwork to a new school), is that NOTHING would get me to vaccinate. Even if the school said they wouldn't take my child (which I knew for sure wouldn't happen). So it's like, oh well, the person's reaction is their reaction, but no matter what, it won't change my mind.

 

Mirzam is right--most likely, you would have a harder time with the doctor if you seem unsure about your decision. So go with confidence. smile.gif

 

Be polite, but firm. "No thank you, not today." Or, "No thank you, not ever." I would suggest not arguing or trying to defend your decision. Because doctors can come up with answers for everything, even if the answers are not true, lol.

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#5 of 22 Old 06-25-2013, 03:49 AM
 
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My dh had this attitude as well, back in the day...he didn't want to 'ruffle feathers' at the drs office....i stood my ground, and rightfully so...our dd had many issues, and i feel vaccines would have really done some damage to her at that time.  Later on, i'm finding i was right about it. 

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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

If you're not sure about your significant other supporting you on this, my advice is to come here for advice and support. Because if you make it seem like a big, difficult issue, your SO might lean in favor of vaccinating, to make things "easier" for everybody.

 

I totally understand being a little nervous about the doctor's reaction. It's never comfortable for someone to be disapproving (if that's how the doctor will be--you don't know yet). But what helps me, (and I just dealt with this feeling last week before I turned in exemption paperwork to a new school), is that NOTHING would get me to vaccinate. Even if the school said they wouldn't take my child (which I knew for sure wouldn't happen). So it's like, oh well, the person's reaction is their reaction, but no matter what, it won't change my mind.

 

Mirzam is right--most likely, you would have a harder time with the doctor if you seem unsure about your decision. So go with confidence. smile.gif

 

Be polite, but firm. "No thank you, not today." Or, "No thank you, not ever." I would suggest not arguing or trying to defend your decision. Because doctors can come up with answers for everything, even if the answers are not true, lol.

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#6 of 22 Old 06-25-2013, 05:49 AM
 
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I would get through the well child visits any way I can until about 6 months, and then after than only go to the doctor if they are sick.  

 

My experience (I have 3 children) is that there are only a couple of visits that are intense due to vaccines, after that the doctors give up (or -in the USA sometimes, ask you to leave) but either way, the intensity lets up.

 

I would never argue with a doctor on vaccines.  You will not convince them, they will not convince you, it is pointless.  I would literally say "we have chosen not to vaccinate at this point."  They might ask why or launch into a pro vax spiel.  If you are required to say anything further, go with something generic, but conversation ending, like  "I have been researching and reflecting on the issue and I am just not comfortable with vaccines at this moment.  She is my baby and I am just not going to do it."  That last line, in my experience, will end the conversation.

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#7 of 22 Old 06-25-2013, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the tips & advice.  I think most of my anxiety is about my "SO" and I not having an agreement on this.   I have tried to talk about it, but he doesn't seem interested or gets angry. Maybe it's my approach.  Has anyone had to try to convince a partner about not vaccinating?  What did you say and how did you bring it up? Can someone please summarize the issues so that I can explain rationally to him why I think that it would be harmful rather than beneficial? He likes solid facts and  proof.  Typical logical guy. lol  Thank you. 

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#8 of 22 Old 06-25-2013, 05:28 PM
 
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I have not had to try an convince a partner.  In the beginning he pretty much left it to me.  Over the years, as he has heard me rant and rave about some aspect of vaccination (flu shot is one that drive both of us a little dizzy.gif)  - he is now fairly non-vax himself. 

 

If I were you, this is what I might do:

 

Ask to go a delayed route.  This is a serious issue and deserve due consideration.  In the meantime research heavily and share what you learn.  He might come around, or maybe you will move.  Who knows - but make whatever decision you make an educated one.   As a general rule, I think the partner who has researched things the most gets more say - if he wants to vax and you do not want to, he needs to bring more to the table than "everyone does it" (or whatever else he is saying).

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#9 of 22 Old 06-25-2013, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks! That was well said. I think he will come around.  I need to present common sense facts.  The most important thing is that our baby won't get sick or die.  I have tried my best to not be afraid, and i'm going to try to get him to see where i'm coming from. Wish me luck

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#10 of 22 Old 06-25-2013, 07:34 PM
 
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My DH thinks I'm a crunchy tree-hugging hippy, BUT, he doesn't make any medical decisions for our DD...or our animals for that matter.  I'm the one who's done the reading, I spend more time with DD and critters, I know how they react to things and whats normal/not normal for them.  So I do all Dr's visists.  I kept up with the wellness visits until she was a yr and haven't been back (she's 19mos now - they wanted to see her at 15 and 18mos) and they haven't called looking for me like in the past so either they forgot or realize that calling me won't change my mind on vaccinating.  In my favor, my DH did know someone who had guillain-barré syndrome from a flu shot before we talked about kids so he understands the big risks.  Also our neighbor (who has a 22mo DD) is still recovering from guillain-barré syndrome almost 6 mos after the onset (she says unknown) and is not 100% and is about to be re-vaxed for an upcoming trip to see family in Haiti and my heart sank for her bc she's also got a history of seizures after vaccines/medications and still doesn't accept the connection and is setting her daughter up on that same path.

 

Well back to the original question here - my ped isn't super "natural" although she claims to be ok with delayed.  I stopped vaxxing DD at 5mos after bad reactions and I was questioned a few times why I was saying no to them and my response was "I'm not comfortable with how she's reacted in the past, I've read enough about the diseases and I am comfortable with the statistics" and left it at that.  In the past I signed a waiver, but prob wouln't even do that again.  I do have an ND that I can use for wellness if I choose (she doesn't accept insurance, but I have ND coverage so I have to submit it myself to get reimbursed) but honestly, having been there done that with DD, seeing how little "wellness" actually covers, I'd def not do wellness through a standard ped ever again.  Hell, last visist we spent more time in the waiting room (45mins) than we did for the exam (10mins) and both DD and I took home a lovely cold for Christmas, ugh!

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#11 of 22 Old 06-26-2013, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenitysmom12 View Post

Thanks for the tips & advice.  I think most of my anxiety is about my "SO" and I not having an agreement on this.   I have tried to talk about it, but he doesn't seem interested or gets angry. Maybe it's my approach.  Has anyone had to try to convince a partner about not vaccinating?  What did you say and how did you bring it up? Can someone please summarize the issues so that I can explain rationally to him why I think that it would be harmful rather than beneficial? He likes solid facts and  proof.  Typical logical guy. lol  Thank you. 


My DH was like this at first. I shared all the research and facts that I was studying but ultimately what convinced him was a thing we watched on you tube or maybe my space (5 yrs ago), where a father got put in prison for shaking his baby and killing it, but he was innocent and it was vax damage. His wife stood by him, and kept digging and it turned out it was a bad batch of shots. He eventually got released from prison.
It was horrifying and tragic, but it woke him up to the fact that there are some serious side effects and you never know if your child will be the one who suffers with them.
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#12 of 22 Old 06-27-2013, 06:57 PM
 
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In the beginning my SO left it up to me. I had to told him we were delaying until our dd was older. Then as I started learning more I realized I didn't want her vaccinated ever. My SO made a slight fuss, but I told him "you get a say when you do the research". I started emailing him the articles and books I was reading. He never brought it up again.
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#13 of 22 Old 06-27-2013, 07:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

I really think doctors can sense fear and/or indecision and will take advantage of that to convince parent's to vaccinate.

Ooooh, how true! I'm on my 3rd pediatrician now. However, the first 2 totally took advantage of my fear and inability to articulate why I would refuse shots.  I always found myself mumbling and physically cowering down.    Now I come armed with a folder full of highlighted points I want to make.  

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#14 of 22 Old 06-27-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone! Your advice & support has been very helpful to me!  I'm so grateful to have a community that supports people like us! Hearing all your stories is helping me become more comfortable with mine.  :)

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#15 of 22 Old 06-28-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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I spent 3 years researching vaccines and here are some things that stick out that may help you with you SO.

 

1. There has not been one study comparing the health of the vaccinated and unvaccinated (however in my real life experiences I have seen most unvaccinated kids have no need for antibiotics, they get over illness extremely quickly, no allergies, and no learning disorders.) My son is 6 and has never needed an antibiotic, is reading at 5th grade level, has a long attention span. He got through rotavirus and influenza just fine and has hardly been sick since)

 

2. Vaccines harm the immune system due to the overstimulation of the TH2 (humoral) side of the immune system. When we experience disease through our nose, mouth, etc our Th1 (cellular) side of the immune system is stimulated. We actually NEED to stimulate this side of the immune system in order to have a proper balance. Many believe the imbalance of the immune system that is created by vaccination is the cause of the increase of autoimmune diseases and other chronic conditions such as allergies, asthma, diabetes, arthritis, autism, ADHD, learning disabilities, ear infections, eczema, and more. (If you look at the increase of the autoimmune diseases and the increase of the vaccines over time, you will see the parallel). Also, I have read that if you have auto-immune diseases in the family then you are at a higher risk of vaccine reactions.

 

More on the explanation of TH1 and TH2 branches of the immune system:  Source: http://vran.org/about-vaccines/vaccine-essentials/vaccination-the-basics/

Vaccines damage the immune system. A healthy immune system has two main parts, Th1 and Th2. Th1 leads with the first and most important immune response, to sense and eliminate incoming disease-associated organisms and particles. Th2 then creates antibodies and a memory of the disease. Babies are born with immature immune systems in which Th2 dominates. As their immune systems mature, dominance switches permanently to Th1. Usually, infectious agents enter the body through the nose and mouth, triggering Th1 which normally combats them effectively. But vaccines injected into the body bypass Th1 and over-stimulate Th2. This confuses the normal maturation and skews the functioning of the immune system; Th2 becomes dominant and the crucial Th1, suppressed. The result can be autoimmune disease (eg juvenile diabetes), allergic disorders (eg eczema, asthma and life threatening anaphylactic allergies to everyday foods like peanuts) and frequent infections (eg colds and ear infections).

 

And another:

http://www.ei-resource.org/articles/gulf-war-syndrome-articles/how-vaccinations-work/

 

And actually.. I see there is also a TH3 side to the immune system. See below. Source: http://www.nvic.org/doctors-corner/Aluminum-and-Vaccine-Ingredients.aspx

Children are born with a cellular mediated immune system (TH1 cells – T-helper 1), a humoral immune system (TH2 cells – T-helper 2), and a regulator immune system (TH3 cells – T-helper 3) as major pieces of their overall immune systems. These three arms are immature when babies are born, and begin to mature as children are exposed to their environments through their nervous systems, skin, airways and intestines. Antibiotics, poor nutrition, stress, exposure to heavy metals and other environmental toxins, and the use of vaccines, may interfere with the proper maturing process of these three arms of children’s immune systems. In theory, if the TH system is allowed to mature, and is not interfered with, children will develop a mature, balanced TH1, TH2 and TH3 immune system by age three.

TH1 and TH2 develop to protect children from the outside world, producing inflammation and anti-inflammation responses to foreign particles from the natural environment. TH3 immune cells develop to keep the TH1/TH2 arms of the immune system in check so the body only produces the amount of inflammation and anti-inflammation that is needed to protect itself from exposures in the natural environment.

When TH2 cells are activated properly, either directly via the natural environment, or through a direct signal from the TH1 system, the B cell arm of the immune system is then stimulated, leading to the production of the desired protective antibodies.[9] [10]

It’s important for the reader to know that the hallmark of a healthy, mature immune system in children is demonstrated by an equal and balanced TH1, TH2 and TH3 immune response to the natural environment. TH1, TH2 & TH3 do not work independently, and require a very important synergistic relationship to function properly in our bodies. As soon as one or more of these three arms begins to over or under work in relation to the other, chronic illness begins to express itself.

 

3. Definitely read the vaccine manufacturer's product insert for details on what the manufacturers say. Interestingly you will find the list of reactions as well as other things to be quite different that what is found on the Vaccine Information Statement that is given out at the pediatrician's office.

I found this:

-Vaccines have never been tested for their carcinogenic potential 

-Vaccines can cause: encephalopathy brain inflammation), anaphylaxis, seizures, Guillain-Barré syndrome, hypotonia, SIDS (I remember seeing this one in the dtap vaccine insert) and many more reactions.

-Studies are all short term studies (No long term studies have been conducted on vaccines!)

 

If you have trouble getting the package insert from the doctor, you can get it on fda website. Just google vaccine insert fda and it will be the first thing to pop up.

 

4. There are many holes in the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. If you dig deeper and look at who conducted the studies supporting vaccines, you will find direct ties to those profiting from the vaccines. I have also found in many studies that the "placebo" is actually just another vaccine OR all of the awful vaccine ingredients minus the antigen. 

 

A good place to start is to examine the fourteen studies that have been used to try and assure parents that there is no vaccine/autism link: http://fourteenstudies.org/index.html The site breaks down these studies so you can see the conflicts of interest as well as gets into the details of the studies. Very interesting!

 

Okay and aside from vaccines potential to cause reactions and chronic disease and inflammation... you will also find that many diseases were on the decline by over 90 percent when the vaccines were introduced. So... did vaccines really save us? Or do diseases have life cycles of their own?

 

Some more things to read:

http://www.nvic.org/vaccination-decisions/wakeofvaccines.aspx

http://www.nvic.org/Downloads/49-Doses-PosterB.aspx

 

This interview from a pediatrician might help your husband. Dr. Palevsky who is being interviewed in this video is a holistic pediatrician. He was once a conventional medicine doctor who believes in vaccines. He shares how everything changed as he continued to research.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/06/dr-palevsky-disease-vaccines.aspx

 

P.S. You might have more luck with a family practice physician respecting your decision to not vaccinate. They are not pushed as hard in school on the vaccines. Pediatricians jobs are to vaccinate. It is the major reason for the well baby visits. And another thing to note...I found out that if they don't meet certain quotas on their patients being vaccinated they can be thrown out of their practice. If I were you, I would take the stance of not even getting into it with the doctor. I like the previous person who suggested saying "No thank you, not today". And if they pushed I would say I am not up for discussing it today but thank you for your concern. If you want to provide me with materials to take home I will do so. Another suggestion I would make is to connect with other local mamas making the same decision as you. Usually you can find someone who has a doc that won't hassle them for their decision. And it is really nice to connect with other mamas making the same choice as you so you can find support and ideas for how to handle vaccine exemptions for school, conversations with other parents who question you etc.

 

I hope this was helpful and feel free to message me with any other questions. I have recently got help from other mamas on here and just really want to give back. This is such a wonderful community!

 

Sending hugs to you mama. This is not an easy thing to go through!

 

Oh! And one more resource I want to pass along is a book called "Raising a Vaccine Free Child" by Wendy Lydall  She goes over some things you can do if your unvaccinated child does get a childhood disease. If I remember right, this is where I learned that fever reducing drugs can just drive disease further into the child and create complications. Also, most people who died from measles had a vitamin A deficiency. The diseases become less scary when you know what to do and what not to do.

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#16 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you MamaMelanie!  Your post was very helpful! And thanks for the links! I agree with you, I'm very grateful to have this website to come to for support.  <3

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#17 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 08:57 AM
 
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Great great info mamamelanie. Thanks for sharing! I swear I learn something new everyday!! Thank you
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#18 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 08:58 AM
 
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Ps....when I doubt my decision or faced with difficult debate with family and friends...I revisit this site and it reassures me that my gut instinct has been right all along!
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#19 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 08:58 AM
 
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Ps....when I doubt my decision or faced with difficult debate with family and friends...I revisit this site and it reassures me that my gut instinct has been right all along!
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#20 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 11:24 AM
 
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OP, I understand how you are feeling.  I know it sounds terribly difficult and intimidating to approach your doctor about this, but it's really not.  It is your decision to make and not your doctor's. This is your child and that's all that matters is you making decisions you feel are right for your child and not being pushed into anything else otherwise.

 

Like another poster mentioned, just be confident when approaching this subject with your doctor.  Stand your ground.  There's nothing they can say to you to intimidate you when you walk in there with confidence.  You don't even have to mention you never want to do vaccines.  Just let him know you don't want any now for your child, and if you ever decide down the road you do, you will let him knowsmile.gif. Heck, if he gives you a problem, which I doubt he will, you can easily walk out.

 

Good luck with everythingsmile.gif


Loving WAHM to my two little handsome DS's, '08 and '12, and loving wife to DH, '07love.gif

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#21 of 22 Old 07-02-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks SilverMoon010, I agree with you.  I'm going to do just that, approach it all with confidence.  I appreciate your input. I am feeling more comfortable now with my ability to do this.  Thanks to all of you.  :)  I am finally resting at night, now worrying about this stuff anymore.  It's as hard as we make it I think. 

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#22 of 22 Old 07-03-2013, 06:13 PM
 
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Brilliant post from MamaMelanie...

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