hey - moms of older kids - do you think new moms today have it easier or harder than you did wrt vaccine decisions? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 33 Old 07-08-2013, 05:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post

But shouldn't that very fact, make parents alert to the fact that all is not what is seems to be?  That perhaps what seems real is a veneer, or even a mirage?

Aren't they asking simple questions like, "Well how come grandma at 96 is still going strong and picking her nose at every opportunity?"

"She didn't need all these vaccines, so why should we take big-pharma's word for it?"

Ok, I haven't been on here very much, but HOLY FREAKING CRAP I haven't seen you on here for ages. Oh man, good to see you here! joy.gif:joy:joy

On topic, I think in some ways with the info out there and the internet so prevalent nowadays that yes, it is easier. I spent hours a day for months sometimes researching and going through articles, etc. I had binders to back me up if CPS ever showed up at my door or a friend ever asked for advice. Now, I can just give a website recommendation and doctors are much more open to non-vaxing. That's just my experience, though.
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#32 of 33 Old 07-09-2013, 07:40 PM
 
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I think most people don't realize how very powerful propaganda is, and how well-planned and entrenched vaccine propaganda has become in our society.


There are Happy Happy!! Vaccines Are Good For You!  children's books and cartoons; older children are taught in health class.  Adults are faced with newspapers, TV news networks, mailings from the doctor, mailings from the health insurance companies, pamphlets in their doctors' offices, and even billboards. Then they are lectured by their doctors, their nurses, and their friends.  Their children aren't allowed to attend school (or so we're told) if they're not caught up on vaccines.  Some companies fire employees for not getting the flu shot.  Health insurance companies offer steep discounts for groups with 100% vaccine compliance.

 

When you google vaccines, the first several hundred pages that pop up are all about how great they are.

 

Law & Order even had an episode where a child died of measles because the foolish parents believed that there was an MMR/autism link and didn't get the child a shot.  They made it appear that death from measles is to be expected (so you NEED that vaccine, mama!), while adverse reactions to vaccines are nonexistent.

 

Look at how our society has been in the past with propaganda.  Children grow up believing what they've been taught without a second thought, even when it doesn't make sense. They can grow up believing that people of other races and religions are to be feared or are to be disdained--not only because that's what they were told, but because IT WAS ACCEPTED BY EVERYONE AROUND THEM.

 

The pharmaceutical industry--and for that matter, the agricultural industry--have obviously analyzed why previous generations' attempt to gain control with propaganda failed, and they're putting what they've learned into good use:  they've staffed the watchdog industries with their own people a decade or two BEFORE they've needed them.

 

People should be howling down the fact that pharmaceutical companies design, direct, interpret, ghostwrite, and market their own safety/efficacy studies.  You'd think we'd have learned something after tobacco. But we haven't. The ones who have learned from the tobacco companies' debacle are Big Pharma and Big Agra.

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#33 of 33 Old 07-12-2013, 10:35 AM
 
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Thanks everybody for a super interesting thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post

 

Kids are a whole heap sicker today, than in the past. 

 

Even the old time doctors will scratch their heads when describing the average paediatric patient in 1940 or 50 and the average paediatric patient today.

 

to me it's a combo hit.

 

Lousy birth and formula starts the slide, vaccines are the first monkey wrench, then toss in serial body flora napalming anitbiotics, and parents who dont' realise that the constant use of tylenol for every ailment under the sun, constantly disables the inate immune system and creates allergies.

 

it's all there in the medical literature yet, paediatricians say very little about that.  come to think of it, if they did, their incomes would drop, so they toe the party line, because that makes greater economic sense...

 

sorry for the OT veer...

 

On top of the hits to health mentioned above you can also add chemicals in mattresses, GMO foods destroying gut flora, and a tremendous amount of general household and life items being made with petrochemicals.  How many years did people use BPA laden stuff without even thinking about it?

 

Now, this is not to be mean to anybody.  I'm just saying I think you have as hard a time with dealing with others about not vaccinating as you expect to have and also relative to how confident you are about it yourself.

 

I've never had a problem with anybody ever about me being anti-vax.  And I consider myself SUPER anti-vax.  I was very fortunate to get started on a healthier kick for myself a year or so before I became pregnant with our daughter, so for me there was never any question about vaccinating.  I don't know if any people think I'm crazy or a bad mother or whatever, but I wouldn't care if they did.  I think anybody who vaccinates is either unfortunate enough to never have been exposed to anything different so they just don't know any better or they are crazy or can't think for themselves or whatever else.  If people are interested to learn more about it, I'll gladly suggest some resources and I always tell them you can't help what you didn't know.  It's about what you do going forward.  If people aren't interested, oh well.

 

On the rare occasion someone raises their eyebrows at me about being anti-vax or anti-GMO or anything else, I look at them and say, "In 2002, one in 2,000 children were diagnosed with autism.  Now it's one in 50.  What do you think is happening?"  Personally I think it's a lot of factors, not ONLY the vaccines.

 

It also helps telling people to bugger off when you've had family friends die from flu shots, my father got incredibly sick from a flu shot and will never take another vaccine, and another family member who caught the whooping cough from the vaccine and almost died.  I also know a special ed teacher who says she has never had a student who wasn't vaccinated.  It's a lot tougher for people to dispute personal experience than some vague study.

 

I expect it to be easy and it is.  I know I have done my own research...  Loads of books and videos, and most of the stuff I have read is by M.D.'s saying don't do it!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

 

Look at how our society has been in the past with propaganda.  Children grow up believing what they've been taught without a second thought, even when it doesn't make sense. They can grow up believing that people of other races and religions are to be feared or are to be disdained--not only because that's what they were told, but because IT WAS ACCEPTED BY EVERYONE AROUND THEM.

 

The pharmaceutical industry--and for that matter, the agricultural industry--have obviously analyzed why previous generations' attempt to gain control with propaganda failed, and they're putting what they've learned into good use:  they've staffed the watchdog industries with their own people a decade or two BEFORE they've needed them.

 

I could see, though, where it could be more difficult for people who buy into the propaganda or are surrounded by people who do, because there is definitely a LOT of money put into that, and it is designed to be extremely powerful.  This is why it is SO important to teach our children NOT to blindly obey ANYONE and to question everything and think for themselves.

 

My mother was a little bit upset because she felt like I was saying she was wrong for vaccinating me, but I told her first of all she was doing the best she knew at the time, and secondly vaccines really were a lot different in the 70s than they are now.  Can't change the past.  She sees how healthy her granddaughter is and doesn't argue with me about any of my decisions for her anymore.

 

It's also fortunate that under the Canadian Constitution, people can't be forced to vaccinate in Canada (I guess your private employer could make you if you want to keep your job), and you don't have to claim religious reasons.  You can say you do not vaccinate for reasons of conscience.  Health Canada did hide the exemption form on their site, though, and even as recent as 2009 it used to be readily available and obvious.  I assume it's still there somewhere.

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