Pertussis Shot While Pregnant - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 10-05-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My toddler is unvax'd and my nb will be as well. Does anyone have personal insight on themselves receiving a tdap vax during last tri of pregnancy? I will be tandem nursing after my nb arrives and I'm exploring my options. Midwife mentioned that some in the medical community believe it can provide some added 'protection' against wc as my nb will be born in March. Tia
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#2 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 07:45 AM
 
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I would not get a shot during pregnancy.  Who knows how vaccines might affect a fetus? The statements from mainstream sites are not re-assuring.

 

 

Dtap is a class c drug:

 

"Either studies in animals have revealed adverse effects on the fetus (teratogenic or embryocidal or other) and there are no controlled studies in women, or studies in women and animals are not available. Drugs should be given only if the potential benefit justifies the potential risk to the fetus."  http://safefetus.com/search.php/index/fda

 

Also take a look at this

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/committee/downloads/preg-principles-2008.pdf

 

From the appendix (pg 7) , on issues surrounding vaccinating pregnant women:

 

Lack of data to make evidence-based decisions

1. No or limited well-controlled trials to establish efficacy of vaccines

in pregnant women or their offspring

2.    No or limited post-licensure studies of efficacy or safety (eg, from

registries, VAERS, Vaccine Safety Datalink)

3.    No or limited animal data

4.    No or limited data on burden of illness

 

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#3 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 08:02 AM
 
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I admit I have thought about giving one DTaP or Tdap to *someone* in our family. DH probably will say no, DS1 had a severe reaction to GSK DTaP but did have that one dose 6 years ago. DS2 has nothing & my last Td was before children & I am pretty sure it did not contain aP . . . So I have thought about one dose going to *someone*, most likely candidates being me (during pregnancy or postpartum) or DS2.
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#4 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 08:19 AM
 
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I would wait until after the birth. You probably won't be going out much so risk of catching pertussis is really low. I asked my close relatives and frieds to get the vaccine early.
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#5 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post

I admit I have thought about giving one DTaP or Tdap to *someone* in our family. DH probably will say no, DS1 had a severe reaction to GSK DTaP but did have that one dose 6 years ago. DS2 has nothing & my last Td was before children & I am pretty sure it did not contain aP . . . So I have thought about one dose going to *someone*, most likely candidates being me (during pregnancy or postpartum) or DS2.

 

dinahx - do you think dtap is safe during pregnancy?  Any links?

 

Also - why one dose?  I had heard one dose was like a primer, and offered virtually no protection…...

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#6 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 09:11 AM
 
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That is not exactly how the studies are done. They give a dose to a study group & see how many get protection . . . It is low in infants, the last time I checked it was 19% of the study group. However, it isn't like each child got 19% protection, it was like 19% of the 1 shot group showed protective antibody levels. I am unwilling to commit to any type of series & I am sorta banking on the idea that my Vax-free PreSchooler who is still nursing would have a more robust than average immune response.

I don't really think any prenatal Vaxes are safe & I am straight terrified of stillbirth, however, since I would not plan on any doses for my infant, the idea of mediating the risks of Pertussis immunization through my own body is a tiny bit attractive to me.

If I did it, which is unlikely, it would be late in my third trimester, so that I could do kick counts & report to the hospital @ the first sign of trouble.
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#7 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 10:19 AM
 
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But the vaccine does not prevent TRANSMISSION. It only prevents symptoms.  So there's no point in getting it for a "cocoon effect," because that just doesn't happen.

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#8 of 24 Old 10-06-2013, 06:44 PM
 
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No way no how.  DTaP is what caused severe reactions in my DD, and I know I've reacted to things as an adult (nasty tetanus reaction) so I certainly wouldn't take that risk with an unborn.  Your toddler being unvaxxed doesn't have much bearing on transmission factor since both vaxxed and unvaxxed can transmit so doesn't change the risk to the newborn via family contact.  If your toddler isn't in school/daycare, then the risk is even less.

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#9 of 24 Old 10-07-2013, 12:01 PM
 
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When I was pregnant with DD1 the swine flu pandemic was just starting to hit hard and the vaccines began rolling out. My gyn would not have given me any vaccine at this time because I was pregnant. That is such a critical time and to be honest I would not get any vaccine while pregnant or breastfeeding. It would be interesting to know how vaccines effect our epigenes and those of our offspring. I mean when something my grandmother ate before she got pregnant, basically had an effect on which epigenes in my own body got turn on or off. Just crazy to think about that.

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“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
―Socrates

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#10 of 24 Old 10-07-2013, 08:32 PM
 
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Can anyone search the VAERS for Stillbirths following Tdap? I only have a phone normally so it is hard for me. There are some anecdotal reports online.
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#11 of 24 Old 10-07-2013, 11:40 PM
 
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Hi! I know it sounds like a good idea in theory... I take the risk so baby won't. But no way I would take ANY vax while pregnant. Also, lets just take a look at WC.

 

First of all I will have to dig up some of my websites that shows so far no matter who they keep vaxing, it doesn't effect infants contracting it. I will tell you why in a moment.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/whooping-cough-beats-vaccine-20120320-1vibp.html

Australia also showed that vaxing moms and cocooning babies didn't help so they have abandoned it.

 

NEXT:

You have to understand what whooping cough is. If you have ever had the DTP or DTaP... your body already has "original antigenic sin:"  

Also, WC It is a MUCOSAL infection.

 

In adults, booster shots don't work.  Why?The original exposure to the disease through immunization "locks in" as they say the way the body will respond to it.Which is why vaccinated people can't clear the bacteria from the bronchi and therefore become carriers if infected, and THEN can act as a reservoir to infect others.  They do not respond to the key toxins which arise as A PROCESS of infection. 

 

Natural mucosal immunity specifically targets the infection process - how the bacteria sets up shop - and the specific toxins the bacteria switch on and then start once their little claws attach to the cilia in the bronchi at "ground zero". 

Another words,  the current whooping cough vaccines create antibodies at the "back-end", to antigens which come later in the infection.  Vaccines MIGHT reduce disease severity for the few months those antibodies exist, but the current whooping cough vaccines don't create the powerful "front end" protection which will immediately clear the bacteria on re-infection. Does that make sense?

The vaccine antibodies, if they are around, might ... lessen the effect of pertussis toxin when it Finally hits the blood supply. 

 

Again: The vaccine creates back end antibodies, BUT natural infection requires a specific bronchial immunity not made by the current vaccines, and not provided by the antibodies detected in antibody tests. 

 

This is WHY scientists have been searching and testing for an intranasal vaccine, starting in 2000. BPEZ1 has been tested and should it work, should be the only "vax" given for WC.  It is to finally confront "front end" defenses in the mucosal area where they need to be. This should also help against parapertussis as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21430219

 

However: The intranasal vaccine will be of no use to adults, whose immunity - as a result of "original antigenic sin" was primed for "back end" immunity and whose immune system will no longer respond in any other way - so an intranasal vaccine won't give front end immunity to adults, any more than re-exposure to whooping cough would, or booster injections will. In fact, adults will continue to be the main source of carriage and spread in the community because of this.

 

Given that booster shots don't increase the bactericidal qualities in the blood why recommend them?

 

So all of that to say, yes, I would skip the DTaP. It really won't help you or your baby.

 

S

DS-13      

DD-8

DD-2

"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

Sun Tzu

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S

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"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

Sun Tzu

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#12 of 24 Old 10-08-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much, all. This discussion and subsequent additional research bring me back to what both my hubby and I agreed on originally. I'm just going to continue doing what I've been doing w my family to keep us healthy and it's pretty minimal: eat health, be healthy, wash hands and stay away from sick places. Thanks again.
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#13 of 24 Old 10-16-2013, 04:11 PM
 
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Hello Everyone. I've removed some posts that violated the forum guidelines; KellyRN, please check your PM box for two messages from me. I've also removed some posts that quoted and/or responded to the posts that were in violation of the forum guidelines including one post that personally attacked the member who posted in violation of the forum guidelines.

 

As a reminder of the guidelines:

Quote:
 While no one should be labeled as irresponsible or uninformed for deciding to vaccinate, neither should parents here who have chosen to not vaccinate be accused of irresponsibility, not caring for their child, or presenting a threat to others. Please respect each other and refrain from statements that are condescending, hurtful, judgmental, and belittling. 
...

Support Forums

The I'm Not Vaccinating, Selective & Delayed Vaccination and the Vaccinating on Schedule forums are for support only. Members should determine which forum best suits their needs and post to that forum to get and share information. These forums do not host discussions that denigrate, insult or otherwise negatively generalize about the vaccination advocacy or practice of others. 

 

And just a general reminder for all members - if someone is posting in a manner that is clearly inappropriate for the forum it is fine to simply point them to the guidelines or let them know that they are posting in a support only forum. Sometimes people come into a forum and don't know the guidelines or that they are posting in a support only atmosphere. But please leave the heavier moderation comments and directives to us. Flag a post you have concerns about and leave it to us to deal with. Under no circumstances should a member be attacked; this includes members whose posts are in violation of the forum guidelines. We appreciate the help and gentle reminders about rules are fine. But the rest should be flagged.

 

Thank you to the many members who flagged the posts today that were in violation of the forum guidelines.


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#14 of 24 Old 10-16-2013, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Apologies to anyone whom I have offended as I admittedly am tired of being attacked by my non vaccination choices. I get that this forum is for support and I totally reacted when I felt that my 'safe zone' was being trolled. Also, I'm pregnant and I can't seem to harness my temper lately! Lol.
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#15 of 24 Old 10-17-2013, 12:50 AM
 
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sorry y'all...leaving you all to your world and heading over to the debate forums. see ya!  

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#16 of 24 Old 10-17-2013, 12:57 AM
 
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OH and anachka...NO offense whatsoever! I'm simply curious as to what you wrote.. deleted before I can see it! Anyway no matter what it is, don't sweat it, I am pretty much impossible to offend! 

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#17 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 07:29 AM
 
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back to the topic at hand... as I am 15 weeks pregnant and have had pertussis in a previous pregnancy... is there any risk of contracting the illness again or am I immune for life??? I can't find any info on this and would love some input!

 

I have a sister in law with a 6 month old who has a compromised immune system due to heart surgeries... and they are vaccinating through the roof at her house. We do not vaccinate and they do not know this at this point. I want to be careful and respectful and I also want to know my stuff as I am sure it will come up one day.

 

thanks.


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#18 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkmilk View Post
 

back to the topic at hand... as I am 15 weeks pregnant and have had pertussis in a previous pregnancy... is there any risk of contracting the illness again or am I immune for life??? I can't find any info on this and would love some input!

 

I have a sister in law with a 6 month old who has a compromised immune system due to heart surgeries... and they are vaccinating through the roof at her house. We do not vaccinate and they do not know this at this point. I want to be careful and respectful and I also want to know my stuff as I am sure it will come up one day.

 

thanks.

when was the last pregnancy?

 

Can you have your titres tested?


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#19 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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the pregnancy that I had pertussis was back in 2004. It was awful but I dealt with it just fine. One of my older children (8 at the time) also got it... he was vaccinated until he was 2.

 

I don't really care enough to get titres... it wouldn't change a thing. As the only reason I really would like to know if I have lifetime immunity is to ease the minds of others who think vaccine is so wonderful. :)


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#20 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 09:49 AM
 
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

 

Despite decades of high vaccination coverage, pertussis has remained endemic and reemerged as a public health problem in many countries in the past 2 decades. Waning of vaccine-induced immunity has been cited as one of the reasons for the observed epidemiologic trend. A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years. Further research into the rate of waning of vaccine-acquired immunity will help determine the optimal timing and frequency of booster immunizations and their role in pertussis control.

 

A little old (2005) but there you go. Hope it helps. 

 

ETA:  a tiny bit more searching shows longer duration of immunity from natural infection and lower from vaccines.  Here is one showing up to 30 years for natural infection and there are others:  http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.1000647

 

In any event, I think everyone can agree that natural immunity from pertussis confers longer immunity, on average, than vaccine immunity.  

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#21 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 06:14 PM
 
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well shoot... I was hoping for lifelong immunity!!! But thankyou for that. Other than flu and tetnus is this one of the only diseases that  can reoccur?


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#22 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 07:00 PM
 
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well shoot... I was hoping for lifelong immunity!!! But thankyou for that. Other than flu and tetnus is this one of the only diseases that  can reoccur?

Chicken pox can - but rarely.

 

It is more likely to re-occur if you had it under age 1.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#23 of 24 Old 11-03-2013, 07:17 PM
 
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Chicken pox can - but rarely.

 

It is more likely to re-occur if you had it under age 1.  


 I had chicken pox twice. I also just met two other people who had chicken pox twice. It's crazy. I thought I was the only one. I had my first case when I was 18 months or so and my second case when I was around 6.

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#24 of 24 Old 11-07-2013, 09:19 AM
 
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It sounds like you've already made your decision, but I did want to add for any lurkers that there have been absolutely ZERO studies done on the effects of the vaccine in pregnant women and the unborn baby - in other words, any "professional" who assures you that any vaccinations during pregnancy is low/no risk has absolutely nothing to back that claim up. 


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