Pro-vax Ex Husband taking unvaxed DDs to France - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 12 Old 10-22-2013, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Backstory: This spring I had to go to court to prevent my two DDs from being inoculated with TDaP when my ex-husband tried to force the issue when his new spouse was expecting a baby, and he suddenly became fearful of Pertussis (full disclosure: there was a pertussis "outbreak" in our area, consisting of 2 children in a neighboring school district that were diagnosed with pertussis, but it was on the news as an "outbreak.").  We share custody 50/50 and he has always been involved in medical and school decision; we were, in general, on very amicable terms, and before this court case, we had NEVER seen the inside of a courtroom for any issues with child support, custody or anything.  Prior to last spring he had signed off on school exemption forms and our 9 year old has never had any shots in her life, which he had always gone along with.  Our 11 year old had the first few rounds of shots long ago as a baby before we made the decision (together at the time) to forego future shots.  So they'd been vax-free for like 10 years when he suddenly took me to court over it.  Being low-income it was a huge hardship to hire a lawyer and defend myself, but it paid off and we won the case.  However, I no longer trust him on the issue of vaccines, because of this experience, especially because he hinted that TDaP was not the only thing he wanted them vaxed for, and he mentioned that some day they might travel to France and since there had been measles outbreaks there, he'd want them vaxed for that and preferably caught up on all their shots.  But after the court case, he stopped talking about vaccines; there baby is healthy and breastfed and all seems (relatively) back to normal amicable relations.

 

Fastforward to this morning: I get a call saying that his wife was just invited to Paris for a work-related trip and they want to take all the kids and make it a family trip.  They don't have much time to work with, because the event is in early December, so it's about 6 weeks til they'd have to depart.  Thus he said he wants me to meet him at the post office today to sign for the DDs' passports.  I did some research revealing that "required" vaccines for travel to Europe are not actually required.  However, I am concerned about how to ensure that our unvaxed status is respected.  Is there some waiver or something I need to fill out at the time of passport issuance?  If I give my permission for the passport, I'm not tacitly agreeing to shots am I?  Any advice on how to be sure vaccines aren't foisted on DDs in this situation would be appreciated!  TIA!


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#2 of 12 Old 10-22-2013, 08:26 AM
 
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There are no vaccines required to travel to France. The CDC recommends MMR for everyone 6 months and older who isn't vaxed because measles is around. Just a heads-up. But the vaccine won't protect if you don't get it at least 28 days before travel (it takes time). Did your XH say there were vaccines required? He can't get the kids vaccinated in France - a regular doctor will require a full exam and be paid in cash, that would be pricey....

 

And no, signing passport papers doesn't have to do anything with vaccines. It just takes both parents to get a passport issues to prevent child abduction cases I suppose.

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#3 of 12 Old 10-22-2013, 10:28 AM
 
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at ages 9 & 11 I would expect that you have/had a very serious talk with them regarding IF they are vacced without your knowledge and how to speak up to him and to any Dr & loudly too!!!

 

IMO your best chances are for your DD to open their mouths and to know how to contact you overseas and a code word if they can't speak freely to you

 

depending on where you are and how vaccines are issued in your state (don't know how close to OH it would be to go there or their rules)  it could be easy for him to have them vaccinated without your knowing until after the fact - I too live in PA and you can just go to the dept of heath or another Dr - a lot will depend on what they girls say and what he says to who he wants to get the vaces from

 

good luck!

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#4 of 12 Old 10-22-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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Definitely talk with your LO's and let them know they have a right to speak up.  The more you empower them now, the easier it will be if something does come up.  Glad the court case went in your favor!

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#5 of 12 Old 10-22-2013, 03:29 PM
 
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Personally,

There is NO Way I would let an X that took me to Court over vax status leave the country with my girls. Sorry buddy, maybe next time when they are older.

 

If you sign for the passport, you still HAVE to normally have some other kind of signed form by a notary to even let him take them out of the country.

 

The ball is in your court, your XH might suddenly say that now that they have passports, these Vaxes are required etc and/or use that in court, (international travel danger) and start another whole court case.

 

Sorry, but I wouldn't let them go under these conditions.

 

S

DS-13      

DD-8

DD-2

"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

Sun Tzu

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S

DS-14

DS-14      

DD-9

DD-3

"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

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#6 of 12 Old 10-23-2013, 06:15 AM
 
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True that Sun. He can't be trusted.

 

But no, they never ask for that affidavit at the airport. The kids and I fly yearly to Europe and I always bring a notarized form from DH saying yes I know they are flying to Europe and I agree. Nobody eve asked me to produce it. And I have flown a lot.

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#7 of 12 Old 10-23-2013, 04:38 PM
 
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Nia:  You are still married to your DH and that makes all the difference. My ex put a special attachment to our kids passports to make sure everyone asks for it. Legally, you can travel and go where ever you want with your kids if they are COM (Children of marriage) and you are still married. Becoming an EX has totally different requirements etc.

 

I just wouldn't let them get passports to start with and say tough, sorry. Then there wouldn't be any worry over all of this. She is not obligated in any way, shape or form to let them get passports and Judges won't make her either. It is her best guarantee that nothing happens to someone not trustworthy.


S

DS-14

DS-14      

DD-9

DD-3

"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

Sun Tzu

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#8 of 12 Old 10-23-2013, 07:44 PM
 
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I had never heard of that. What's that attachment called? Where does it go?
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#9 of 12 Old 10-23-2013, 10:55 PM
 
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My XH had it attached in court by a judge during our divorce. (All you have to do is tell the judge you believe your X will be a flight risk-even without proof)

 

I just had to renew both my kids passports for instance to go to Mexico and man, it took over 3 months and the passports are sent to D.C. and they have to process them personally. They DC man on the phone went on and on asking me questions and told me to make sure I bring extra traveling papers showing that my XH knows where we are, that we have permission etc. I will have to look up what it is called, but its late and I have to get to bed!


S

DS-14

DS-14      

DD-9

DD-3

"Those who are afraid retreat.
Those who are brave grow greater.
Never fear, always grow."

Sun Tzu

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#10 of 12 Old 10-24-2013, 06:41 AM
 
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Wow thanks for the info. I always brought the papers because online it says so but was never asked. My kids have both passports (German, American) and I'm fairly certain there is no such thing in German passports. It does need both parents to sign though.
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#11 of 12 Old 10-24-2013, 07:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nia82 View Post

Wow thanks for the info. I always brought the papers because online it says so but was never asked. My kids have both passports (German, American) and I'm fairly certain there is no such thing in German passports. It does need both parents to sign though.

 

Our big kids are adopted (we had Sorgerecht and Aufenthaltsbestimmungsrecht) and we were asked for the forms every time. When my mum flies with my wee boy, they ask for a Vollmacht. Every time.

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#12 of 12 Old 10-24-2013, 01:33 PM
 
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Good to know all about that. If my kids flew with the grandparents, I'd give them a notarized thingie saying it's ok, But we're not there yet - as of now it's me and the kids and the car seats flying. The BGS guys usually joke about our humangous car seats and that's that (most car seats in Germany are forward facing or boosters, extended rear facing is extremely rare). But at least I was prepared with the travel consent forms ;)

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