Flu deaths... Help me calm down and come back to my senses - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 01-11-2014, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm sure everyone has heard the hoopla about many people dying from the flu or flu-like symptoms....but it hit close to home for me. A high school classmates brother died a few days ago from "flu-like complications". He was 38.

I trust our immune systems and I do everything I can to keep our family healthy, but I am truly scared. My DD is 99% vas free and neither DH nor I take the flu shot anymore. DH and I still had a talk last night and while we are concerned we still don't want to expose DD to the countless chemicals and toxins in vaccines. Especially the flu shot since it is one of the most reactive

Please give me some reassurance we made the right choice....

From a concerned (worried) momma.
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#2 of 24 Old 01-11-2014, 09:52 PM
 
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Question for you.... Was it from having the flu or flu- like symptoms?
Wondering
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#3 of 24 Old 01-11-2014, 11:00 PM
 
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If flu is what you are concerned about, it might help you to know that the Cochrane Review concluded that there is very little benefit from the flu shot. They also complain that the available studies are biased due to industry funding/control/interpretation, and that there is demonstrable risk from the vaccines, though not enough studies on those to have a good idea as to how MUCH risk.

 

"Flu complications" usually means that there was an underlying medical reason why that person was susceptible to "flu complications," such as asthma, autoimmune disease, gastrointestinal disorders resulting in nutritional deficiencies, vitamin deficiencies, etc.  Also, people on chemotherapy, steroids (either for treatment of autoimmune disease, or taken illegally for enhanced sports performance) are at major risk for complications.

 

There are also underlying medical issues that can cause vaccine reaction.  Unfortunately, those are never screened for, even though some of them are known.

 

Finally, it's helpful to know that the vast majority of "flu-like illness" is not actually influenza, and would not have been prevented by the flu shot anyway.

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#4 of 24 Old 01-11-2014, 11:27 PM
 
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We just went through a family bout of H1N1 here. We do have family members at higher risk of complications, so when we became symptomatic, testing was done. It was miserable, but some good monitoring at home - vitals every 4 hours when symptomatic, and q 8hrs for the 3 days after that was enough to keep everyone safe. I was able to intervene before there were complications for one child, and noticed when another spiked a fever when he should have been improving. It was a pneumonia, but easily treated because we caught it fast.

Wash hands a lot, don't wear your shoes in from out, and be ready to ride it out. I am more comfortable dealing with the flu than the flu shot, even in hindsight.
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#5 of 24 Old 01-12-2014, 07:12 AM
 
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I had that happen during the H1N1 scare a few years ago.  2 young people died within an hour of me, and it freaked me out!  It was also the year everyone was lining up for the flu shot, it is the closest I came to getting a shot.  Turns out, when the year ended, that it really wasn't a high flu death year…..it was a high media coverage, fear inducing year!

 

My advice would be to take deep breaths and keep a good eye on flu surveillance activity in your area.  

 

As of Jan, 4th, it looks like (according to this graph) that flu acitivity is a little lower this year than in previous years.  CDC graph:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm#MS

 


Good handwashing, stay out of really crowded places if possible during peak season, stay about 6 feet plus from anyone actively exhibiting symptoms….you can reduce your chances of getting the flu.

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#6 of 24 Old 01-12-2014, 03:46 PM
 
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My aunt has gotten the flu shot since it came out and now has SERIOUS dementia. Definitely related!
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#7 of 24 Old 01-12-2014, 09:48 PM
 
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I read recently that taking Vit D was found to be more effective than the flu shot at preventing the flu. Focus on eating/ living healthy and try not to let the media scare you.
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#8 of 24 Old 01-13-2014, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Question for you.... Was it from having the flu or flu- like symptoms?
Wondering

I honestly am not sure. It was a post on Facebook and that was all the details that she gave.

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#9 of 24 Old 01-16-2014, 01:41 PM
 
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I have had 3 students go out sick for an extended time recently. 2 out with flu symptoms. One with CP (fully vaxxed) All 3 had told me just days before that they had just gotten the flu shot. Out of the whole class, they were the only ones who mentioned a flu shot! Another one told me today that he got the shot yesterday. Im hoping he isnt next to be sick! Even IF the flu shot works for the flu, it lowers your immune system for awhile and makes you more likely to catch everything else. There are so many things you can do to protect yourself that is far more effective. And, you have no idea if this man had a flu shot or not. Maybe he didnt and he caught the flu. Maybe he did and that is why he was sick in the first place. Maybe it is all irrelevant bc it wasnt really the flu and he had an underlying condition. Who knows?! I find it ironic that there are all these reports that the flu is out of control this year and hospitals are overwhelmed, but the flu shot is given more than ever! At the end of the report, we are reminded we can still get our flu shot! How is it that so few can connect the dots???

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#10 of 24 Old 01-17-2014, 01:28 PM
 
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I had a friend today talking about how in her state there have been 27 deaths from the flu and she was overwhelmed with how to face it all.  Her husband works in a pediatric hospital and so was vaxxed; eldest child (10) has asthma and so she was vaxxed; youngest child (9ish mos) is a foster, so she was vaxxed; herself and their 2.5 yo son did not get the flu vax.  I gave her some basic statistics about the vax and how it's a best guess of strains, and some other info about the number of people who will get those strains vs the other dozen plus in circulation along with the innumerable "flu-like" viruses and illnesses.  Talked about how the numbers might not be a true reflection of the picture if they didn't test and confirm it was the flu, or if they didn't test for underlying issues.  Gave her the cohrane link about transmission not being affected, and overall reassured her she shouldn't feel guilty about not vaxxing one kid and vaxxing the other two - she made an informed decision based on what risks she saw and vaccines should not be viewed as a one size fits all.  She seemed pretty happy with that response.

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#11 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 09:08 AM
 
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Am I the only one that isn't giving the flu a nanosecond of thought? It is only when I come on these boards and read about it that it even enters my consciousness. I don't expect to get sick, and I don't expect any of my family to get sick. If we do, the chances are that it won't be actual influenza anyway, but a flu-like illness, which is essentially a cleansing of the body, or non-specific healing symptoms. I have had influenza once in my life as a nine year old. I remember having to sit through a performance of Swan Lake with my ballet teacher feeling totally cr@p. 


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#12 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 10:06 AM
 
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It's hard when the scare factor is pushing it - over & over!

 

I HATE :angry this narrow minded "assumption"that keeps being thrown out by PROvaccers that if you don't' vac you somehow don't care about those who die of what in their minds is some 100%  vaccinePREVENTABLEstuff! Yet when we hear about those who were vac yet still get it and/or die, that is, ahhhhh welllll, buttt, doesn't matter - bottom line STILL all the non-vaccer's fault in their minds as the foot of all evil!

 

This past week a young father died by a REAL deliberate act - in Florida, he was shot for texting to find out about his sick daughter - that to me is horrific! That was a deliberate act yet the condonation is to call out non-vaccers and accuse them of doing deliberate awful things by not vaccine for the good of others.

 

 I wish the hyper fear factor scare machine really focused on other things but I know it's easy to scare the masses so flu keeps it going - it's tragic yet the sitting ducks are the anti- vaccers. 

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#13 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 10:42 AM
 
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It's hard when the scare factor is pushing it - over & over!

 

I HATE :angry this narrow minded "assumption"that keeps being thrown out by PROvaccers that if you don't' vac you somehow don't care about those who die of what in their minds is some 100%  vaccinePREVENTABLEstuff! Yet when we hear about those who were vac yet still get it and/or die, that is, ahhhhh welllll, buttt, doesn't matter - bottom line STILL all the non-vaccer's fault in their minds as the foot of all evil!

 

This past week a young father died by a REAL deliberate act - in Florida, he was shot for texting to find out about his sick daughter - that to me is horrific! That was a deliberate act yet the condonation is to call out non-vaccers and accuse them of doing deliberate awful things by not vaccine for the good of others.

 

 I wish the hyper fear factor scare machine really focused on other things but I know it's easy to scare the masses so flu keeps it going - it's tragic yet the sitting ducks are the anti- vaccers. 

 

The TPTB, are not going to let up on the fear mongering or the demonizing of the unvaxed. It is up to us to see through it so their tactics don't affect us. See my avi!

 

I read about that poor man in Florida, he was texting the baby sitter because his LO was sick. 

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#14 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 01:03 PM
 
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Since I have read an article on how the flu death rate is actually calculated (very simplified: winter deaths minus summer deaths = flu victims) I am not concerned about the flu at all anymore. Had the swine flu in 2009 myself. I remember having a lot of pain, justed stayed in bed, plenty of rest and fluids, some cells salts, refreshing showers once a day and recovered after 7 days without even feeling fatigued. All the other people I know who had it and who took all these meds needed 3+ weeks to recover. I know everybody is different and with underlying conditions it could turn out pretty bad too. What is there to do to prevent it anyway? Either you catch it or you don't. I am not concerned and if it should strike us, I will cross that bridge when I get to it.


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#15 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 01:18 PM
 
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don't wear your shoes in from out

Why?
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#16 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 08:06 PM
 
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Why?

Because the number of germs- particularly in public areas, along with bacteria and general yuck (think of people spitting on the ground and so on) that exposure is concentrated on the bottom of the shoe, and if you wear it in and throughout the house, it can spread more easily to your floors where kids will  sit and play,  infants may pick things up and put them i their mouths etc.  It's just one of those 'best practice' things.  We do it as we have immunocompromised individuals in our family.  


Our allergy-immunologist first brought it up when my then 3 year old was being seen for some complicated issues.  She was fine with no-vax, and was generally laid back, but was adamant about shoes in the house. 

Here are a couple simplified stories about it-

http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/06/17/shoes-transmit-disease-leave-them-by-the-door/
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=5177409

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#17 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 08:15 PM
 
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Because the number of germs- particularly in public areas, along with bacteria and general yuck (think of people spitting on the ground and so on) that exposure is concentrated on the bottom of the shoe, and if you wear it in and throughout the house, it can spread more easily to your floors where kids will  sit and play,  infants may pick things up and put them i their mouths etc.  It's just one of those 'best practice' things.  We do it as we have immunocompromised individuals in our family.  


Our allergy-immunologist first brought it up when my then 3 year old was being seen for some complicated issues.  She was fine with no-vax, and was generally laid back, but was adamant about shoes in the house. 

Here are a couple simplified stories about it-

http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/06/17/shoes-transmit-disease-leave-them-by-the-door/
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=5177409

 

A similar way of looking at it:  if you ever wear your shoes into a public restroom (and we know how clean the floors are there, right?), think about wearing them home again, walking all over your family room floor, and then having your baby sit there and play (putting everything in her mouth)....

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#18 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 09:05 PM
 
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A similar way of looking at it:  if you ever wear your shoes into a public restroom (and we know how clean the floors are there, right?), think about wearing them home again, walking all over your family room floor, and then having your baby sit there and play (putting everything in her mouth)....

 

I would be way more concerned about the toxic chemicals used in the cleaning products for said restroom floor than 'germs'. 

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#19 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 09:16 PM
 
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I think the point is though, that you don't need to drag in a bunch of 'stuff' either biological or chemical, and because shoes are in contact with everything, they tend to bring it along for the ride.  Besides, I am really lazy, and I hate having to mop every day.  

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#20 of 24 Old 01-18-2014, 09:21 PM
 
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I would be way more concerned about the toxic chemicals used in the cleaning products for said restroom floor than 'germs'. 

 

I'm sure you're right!  But when my kids were babies, I didn't know about the toxic chemicals.  I did, however, know about the poop and pee on the restroom floor.

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#21 of 24 Old 01-19-2014, 08:39 AM
 
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I'm sure you're right!  But when my kids were babies, I didn't know about the toxic chemicals.  I did, however, know about the poop and pee on the restroom floor.

 

I have never been much of a germaphobe, a little bit with my eldest, but by the time the younger two came, I was much more aware of the issue of the danger to our health due to the environmental chemicals in every day household products. I know I am in the minority (of one?) on this board, but I am really not concerned with germs, not that I would have allowed my baby to be on a public restroom floor. We are the only animals that wash our hands before eating or using the bathroom (no, I am not saying you shouldn't wash your hands after using the bathroom). I just don't believe frequent hand washing does that much to prevent the spread of airborne pathogens and it is yet another tactic to engender fear of disease and sell health harming anti-microbial products. Obviously, I want my doctor to wash his hands prior to operating on me (or anyone else for that matter), and I acknowledge that Ignaz Semmelweis understood that going from cutting up dead bodies decaying with bacterial toxins and then delivering babies without washing their hands killed mothers. I also acknowledge that sanitation and other social improvements had been by far the most significant factor in reduction of mortality from infectious diseases, but living 16 to a room with no flushing toilet or running water, feces and garbage piled two feet high outside their dwelling, and drinking water contaminated with all manner of filth, both organic and industrial, is not the same as the fear of catching a disease unless you are washing your hands constantly or worrying about shoes bringing in germs into your house. (I expect people to take off their shoes when entering my house, but not because I think they would make me sick if they didn't, I just prefer not to have people bring dirt into my home on the bottom of their shoes).

 

These microbes are part of our microbiome, and only become a problem when the conditions in the body are conducive. My dog licks his privates but to date that practice has never made him sick or anyone one else in the family :Sheepish. His favorite food is a piece of raw chicken that he has buried in the dirt for several days and then revisits it, :eat, it hasn'tt make him or anyone else sick (yes I know dogs have a more acidic digestive system then humans do). What makes dogs sick and susceptible to illness are immune destroying vaccinations, the resultant treatment dished out by vets, and inappropriate nutrition. soapbox.gif tiphat.gif 


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#22 of 24 Old 01-19-2014, 09:11 AM
 
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These microbes are part of our microbiome, and only become a problem when the conditions in the body are conducive. My dog licks his privates but to date that practice has never made him sick or anyone one else in the family :Sheepish. His favorite food is a piece of raw chicken that he has buried in the dirt for several days and then revisits it, :eat, it hasn'tt make him or anyone else sick (yes I know dogs have a more acidic digestive system then humans do). What makes dogs sick and susceptible to illness are immune destroying vaccinations, the resultant treatment dished out by vets, and inappropriate nutrition. soapbox.gif tiphat.gif

:love

I want in theory to enforce the no shoes in the house for cleaning purposes.  We're all hardwood and tile here and currently the only area rug is in DD's room - living room got tossed when potty training began and with raw fed dogs, sometimes they do take it upon themselves to eat outside of the kitchen.  But then I think of the dogs going out to play, and running where they *ahem* go.....it's almost pointless!  Only time it drives me nuts is when my FIL is here to watch DD, and he goes out in the mud to do god knows what he does(the man just can't leave our things alone!) then treks it into the house in massive quantities AND all over DD's area rug....which happens to be a pseudo shag.....in white :irked 

 

I have had the discussion many times with dog owners looking to go raw but worried about the bacteria and germs, and I can say that when my DD was crawling around their bowls, she never got sick.  She's been feeding them from about 12mos - so over a year now - and we've not had any problems.  I don't always wash my floors after they eat (unless it's abnormally messy), I don't sanitize bowls daily either, so in some ways I believe that constant exposure only helps in the long run!

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#23 of 24 Old 01-19-2014, 03:44 PM
 
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I have my dog eat his meat/tripe in the garage. He always takes his boned meat outside to eat, I trained him to do this.


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#24 of 24 Old 01-19-2014, 10:16 PM
 
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I do try and do that on non-precipitating days or if the deck isn't covered in snow, although this morning they dragged some ox tails into the yard to bury in the snow.  Generally they are good about remaining in their "area" but there's been a few sneak aways to the dog bed in the living room ....which was yesterday when I sat down on the bed to get to the usb cable next to it and stood up with a slimy rear:p  I did pull the cover off to wash since DD will sit on it (dogs actually rarely use it!)!

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