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#1 of 26 Old 01-22-2014, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post this but a relative posted it on FB and I would love to get some thoughts on it.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78971408/
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#2 of 26 Old 01-22-2014, 07:47 PM
 
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Looks to me like the usual pharma/cdc propaganda/drivel  hitting home in mainstream media.....this is the second time today i've seen this graph in a provax article.  And both articles touted the pertussis vax as an 'effective tool' for prevention. So, obviously, even after the cdc admitted the vaccine may not work as suggested,  somehow, the message is still to use a useless vaccine that could be potentially contributing to the outbreaks going on.  And blame the nonvaxing for it, how convenient!!

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#3 of 26 Old 01-22-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's easier to blame the nonvaxing rather than the vaccine itself ;-)

I find it ridiculous that people have the attitude of "vaccination is not an individual choice...it's a public health issue..."
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#4 of 26 Old 01-22-2014, 09:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysweetangels View Post

It's easier to blame the nonvaxing rather than the vaccine itself ;-)

I find it ridiculous that people have the attitude of "vaccination is not an individual choice...it's a public health issue..."

 

Yep.  Substitute "an invasive medical procedure" for "vaccination," because that's literally what it is.

 

"An invasive medical procedure is not an individual choice...it's a public health issue."

And THAT opens the door to all kinds of horrors.

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#5 of 26 Old 01-23-2014, 01:45 AM
 
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That's pretty awful. I hate this perpetual glossy oversimplification. People like the author are either fools or calculating tyrants.

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#6 of 26 Old 01-23-2014, 10:33 AM
 
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The LA Times is a rag. It always has been.

 

I am sure that this has been discussed throroughly in 2010 and 2011 here, but to summarize.

Those ten babies that died in 2010 from pertussis

1. were too young to be vaccinated, or fully vaccinated,

2. lived in heavily vaccinated communities,

3. were diagnosed too late to be treated for their case of pertussis because the doctors were too stupid not to be able to recognize a case of pertussis right in front of them - Boneheads!

4. the vaccine that is given to persons now is ineffective and still neurotoxic, even the CDC says so.

 

Blaming Dr. Wakefield and Ms. McCarthy for measles outbreaks is silly. The MMR was suspect for autism years before Dr. Wakefield wrote his study and before Ms. McCarthy became a mother. It points to the fraudulent article out of the UK "Growing Up Unvaccinated", which we have discussed here on these forums.


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#7 of 26 Old 01-23-2014, 10:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
 

It points to the fraudulent article out of the UK "Growing Up Unvaccinated", which we have discussed here on these forums.

 

If any members here are signed in to comment on the LA site, post a link to the deconstruction of "Growing Up Unvaccinated!"

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#8 of 26 Old 01-23-2014, 12:57 PM
 
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I just saw it too. Hubby got it posted on his FB. I think it is not worth reading at all. A time waster.


“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
―Socrates

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#9 of 26 Old 01-23-2014, 01:58 PM
 
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#10 of 26 Old 01-23-2014, 05:29 PM
 
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Heres a link from your bottom article about how drs push vaccines in conversation with parents

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/10/30/peds.2013-2037.full.pdf+html

 

The Architecture of Provider-Parent Vaccine
Discussions at Health Supervision Visits

 

basically says in the conclusion parents are pretty much bullied into the vaccines

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#11 of 26 Old 01-24-2014, 12:45 PM
 
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A great rebuttal.

 

http://www.modernalternativemama.com/blog/2014/01/23/more-proof-that-the-vaccine-pusher-crowd-cant-think-critically/#.UuLB-WTn-ME

 

More Proof That the “Vaccine Pusher” Crowd Can’t Think Critically….

 

Maybe that title is mean.  But I’m angry.

(For the record — “pro- vaccine” means “pushes vaccines on everyone and thinks people shouldn’t have a choice” not “thinks vaccines are the right choice for their family and believes ‘to each his own.’”)

I truly have nothing but contempt for this movement, who think they can limit others’ freedom because of their personal belief in vaccines.  This latest bit of news shows pretty clearly how they can’t think critically, and therefore shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions for anyone else (not that they should anyway).


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#12 of 26 Old 01-24-2014, 01:20 PM
 
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Oh, that is where that graphic came from. Someone posted it on my fb today and I turned it off without reading. :blah
 

The CDC has previously stated that non-vaxxers are not responsible for the outbreaks we are seeing, they know this vaxx is less effective. It does not prevent transmission but rather causes symptoms to be less severe and therefore a vaxxed person may have a cough, not suspect pertussis, and then spread it to the public. Vaccinated health care workers have spread it to their patients.

 

Our state has some of the lowest rates of vaxx in the country and I think we had 2 or 3 cases of measles last year. A guy from out of country came in with it, went to the doctor, and spread it to another adult. They were expecting an epidemic outbreak, but no, nothing.

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#13 of 26 Old 01-24-2014, 01:34 PM
 
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I am a VHP! LOL


“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
―Socrates

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#14 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 07:14 AM
 
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1004095_184534861756729_314859227_n.jpg

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#15 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 08:37 AM
 
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Yes, you are correct, emmy526  -

 

iceland http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/iceland.html

denmark http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/denmark.html

norway http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/norway.html

finland http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/finland.html no hep B and BCG is only given to high risk groups

sweden http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/sweden.html

 

Throughout most European countries, Hep B is given only with an indication.

 

I was told repeated that I was  a liar by a vax fan who claimed to be in the UK, even after I posted these. So who was lying?


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#16 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
 

Yes, you are correct, emmy526  -

 

iceland http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/iceland.html

denmark http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/denmark.html

norway http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/norway.html

finland http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/finland.html no hep B and BCG is only given to high risk groups

sweden http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/sweden.html

 

Throughout most European countries, Hep B is given only with an indication.

 

I was told repeated that I was  a liar by a vax fan who claimed to be in the UK, even after I posted these. So who was lying?

Here is a big version of the map

 

http://www.cfr.org/interactives/GH_Vaccine_Map/#map

i thought south america was interesting, too.

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#17 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 12:02 PM
 
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Here is a big version of the map

 

http://www.cfr.org/interactives/GH_Vaccine_Map/#map

Huh... I am finding the difference between Canada and the U.S. somewhat fascinating. Looking at the population is looks like it is about 1/10th of America's, which I suppose could explain it, But there is wayyy more than 10x the number of pertussis cases in America compared to them. @kathymuggle any thoughts on what is going on there with that? Is their uptake rate significantly higher? Less exceptions to mandatory vaxxes? Less risk of coming into contact with someone because they are more sparesly populated? None of the above?

I also just realized that this was not a map of a single year - it goes from 2008 (???) through now. If you move it over to 2013, there were zero cases of pertussis in Canada vs. around 10,000 in the U.S. and less than 30 cases of measels in Canada vs. less than 300 in the U.S. One case of typhoid and 30 cases of mumps in the U.S. and none of either in Canada.

Do they not have information on Mexico? Or were there really zero outbreaks of any of those disease during 2013? I've been into the slums there. I would expect diseases to spread amongst their population very quickly if there was indeed an outbreak. Wonder why they have nothing listed for them.

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#18 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post
 

Huh... I am finding the difference between Canada and the U.S. somewhat fascinating. Looking at the population is looks like it is about 1/10th of America's, which I suppose could explain it, But there is wayyy more than 10x the number of pertussis cases in America compared to them. @kathymuggle any thoughts on what is going on there with that? Is their uptake rate significantly higher? No, if anything, I expect we vaccinate slightly less than Americans.   Less exceptions to mandatory vaxxes? We have 10 provinces - only 3 of them have mandatory-for-school vaccine , and in all 3 vaccine exemptions are easy to get.   Less risk of coming into contact with someone because they are more sparesly populated? Not really.  Most of Canada lives within 200 kilometer (120 miles) of the border and as such most of us live in areas that are almost as densely  populated as the USA. I do remember reading that most of the infants who died in California were from large households (often Hispanic) - and maybe we are less likely to have huge households?  None of the above?  

 

I have a couple of thoughts floating around in my head on disease prevalence:

1.  Do Canadians go to the doctor less than Americans and are thus less likely to be diagnosed with things?

2.  Do Canadian doctors test for things less?  

The above two would only apply if the disease stay mild.  Obviously, people will go to the doctor and doctors will seek diagnosis if things get serious

3.  Are there genetic components to certain disease - or groups that seem more susceptable?  Quebec has been hit by measles 3 times in the last 20 years or so - mostly in rural(ish) areas, with limited gene pools.  Are certain areas due to gene pools or other factors (weather?) more prone to certain diseases?  I think the answer is yes.  

4.  I just looked up adult vaccination rates in Canada.  Adults are very under-immunised (or rightly immunised, depending on how you look at things ;)  I wonder if many adults in Canada got pertussis, did not know it and transferred immunity to their babies via breastfeeding?  Canada has pretty decent breastfeeding rates.  

I also just realized that this was not a map of a single year - it goes from 2008 (???) through now. If you move it over to 2013, there were zero cases of pertussis in Canada vs. around 10,000 in the U.S. and less than 30 cases of measels in Canada vs. less than 300 in the U.S. One case of typhoid and 30 cases of mumps in the U.S. and none of either in Canada.

 


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#19 of 26 Old 01-26-2014, 05:38 PM
 
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Thanks Kathy!

 

Quote:

We have 10 provinces - only 3 of them have mandatory-for-school vaccine , and in all 3 vaccine exemptions are easy to get.

 

This is interesting since we hear all the time around here that philisophical and religious exemptions are putting the whole population at risk for major breakouts.

 

 

 

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#20 of 26 Old 02-02-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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Jessica Gianelloni, has written an awesome take down of the LA Times article.

 

http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/02/01/la-times-and-the-whooping-cough-story/


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#21 of 26 Old 02-02-2014, 11:30 AM
 
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Jessica Gianelloni is awesome!!!   :joy

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#22 of 26 Old 02-02-2014, 08:16 PM
 
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I think the euvac links might be outdated. Germany recommends more than on the link. greensad.gif
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#23 of 26 Old 02-02-2014, 08:40 PM
 
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OK, Nia82, what more?  Germany does not at least require vaccines, just highly recommend. They remember Bremen.


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#24 of 26 Old 02-03-2014, 07:37 AM
 
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Let me check. I know Germany doesn't require then luckily. I grew up there. Peds don't fire you for not vaccinating. Most people I know do their own thing (not l shots, delayed). I know one person only who follows the full recommendation.
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#25 of 26 Old 02-03-2014, 07:39 AM
 
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#26 of 26 Old 02-03-2014, 07:45 AM
 
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Phone glitch don't let me edit. My worry about euvac links are that that might be outdated.
Germany recommends everything and more than the us but no flu shots and no hpv for boys. But people need to know that there is no media hype about flu deaths, pediatricians bullying patients nor schools caring about vaccination status. It's an entirely different climate.
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