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#1 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/leaving-the-anti-vaccine-movement/

 

Sounds legit (As opposed to Amy Parker who I am still convinced made her story up at least partially).  I wonder if this mama is one of the ones we debate with in the vaccine debate forum?


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#2 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 07:34 PM
 
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 I now view the anti-vaccine movement as a sort of cult, where any sort of questioning gets you kicked out, your crunchy card revoked.
 

Sorry she feels this way. I would bet she was familiar with Mothering, and maybe even a member.

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#3 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 07:54 PM
 
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I really don't have much sympathy for her position.  You are responsible for your choices, to vax or not, and not to be a sheeple in either herd.  Her mistake was not in not vaxing.  It was in following the people who talked the best.  She is still making the same mistake, but can be more confident because she is now following the mainstream.  The masses support her, which makes her feel more settled.  However, going to the cdc for "proof" is really not getting good information.  It's prettier, and more accepted, but not more valid.

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#4 of 20 Old 02-10-2014, 09:29 PM
 
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I feel like I ought to be very patient with her, as she's only 20 years old (and already the mother of 2!).  I can't help wondering what, if any, education she has, and why she can't seem to think for herself, and then I have to remind myself that she's only 20, and probably had her first baby at around 17, when most teenage girls are just learning to drive, and are worried about their SAT scores and picking out prom dresses, maybe thinking where they'd like to go to college.


I think VoicesForVaccine must be insisting that all their members have EXACTLY the same outlook on everything, as her take on things seems so similar to Amy Parker's.

 

I got annoyed, and wrote a whole post about it:  http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1397362/here-we-go-again-deconstructing-leaving-the-anti-vaccine-movement#post_17567848

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#5 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 06:18 AM
 
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I don't think she understands the meaning of the word cult.  Losing friends because you no longer share the same viewpoint as them does not mean you were in a cult, it means your friendships were shallow or the non-vax/pro-vax divide is so strong it is splitting up relationships.  We see that on the INV forum all the time, and it is usually a non-vaxxer who is not welcome at a family event, or non-vaxxers who are being ridiculed for their beliefs on Facebook. 

 

 It does not seem her convictions are that strong.  She went from what I assume is vaccinating on schedule, to non-vax, to pro-vax again in under 2 years.  It seems to me she heard about non-vax, looked into it, decided the evidence was not strong enough for her (as an aside - she does not seem to have applied that same skepticism to looking at the vaccine program, AFAIK) and went back to vaxxing. There is nothing wrong with that, but it hardly seems like her views were deeply held enough to warrant a blob on V4V. 

 

I feel a little bad for for this woman and I felt a little bad for Amy Parker (even though I think her piece had a gazillion holes in it).  Hasn't  anybody told them that using your real name and a photo of yourself is probably not such a hot idea?  I am not sure V4V is protecting its authors as much as it should.  It probably doesn't care, though…agenda first, people second!

 

I suppose the same argument can be made against Jenny McCarthy or (even more aptly) the woman at Thinking Moms.  However, if these articles are to be taken at face value (a big if)  both Amy Parker and this woman are coming across as somewhat naive, something that cannot be said of Jenny McCarthy or the moms at ThinkingMoms. 

 

Lastly the tone of this article is similar to the tone of a lot of V4V pieces…the women all come across as lovely (borderline unicorns shooting out of their butts lovely) and even their anti-vax barbs are cloaked in loveliness, which makes them all the more dangerous.   Where is the diversity in tone?  I suspect strong editing.


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#6 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 06:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

 

 

 It does not seem her convictions are that strong.  She went from what I assume is vaccinating on schedule, to non-vax, to pro-vax again in under 2 years.  

 

 

You know, you make a really good point.   I missed that on the first read-through:  "When my oldest daughter was about four months old, I discovered “crunchy” parenting. I entered a world full of cloth diapers, “intactivism,” and home birth. I made a lot of new friends who shared my beliefs about peaceful attachment parenting, and I started to notice a trend – many of these same friends also didn’t vaccinate."

 

So her older daughter got the first 3 rounds of vaccines, then nothing for perhaps a couple of years.  Her younger daughter was unvaccinated for 10 months. 

So essentially, she did a select/delayed vaccination schedule for them, they suffered (according to her) ZERO problems from delaying vaccination--and then, after joining up with V4V, says, "I was terribly wrong ab out vaccines."

 

Isn't that like someone quitting smoking, having a clean bill of health (no lung cancer), then starting up again, and then, after joining up with supporters of Big Tobbaco, saying, "I was terribly wrong about smoking?"
 

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#7 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 07:03 AM
 
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I missed that she was only 20.  :-(

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#8 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 07:22 AM
 
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At the bottom of the V4V post there is a link to her blog.

http://naturalmomma.tumblr.com/

 

On her blog it says izzy is 1 year and 1 month old

Sophie is 2 years and 11 months old….

 

So..wait!…hold the presses…didn't she say she came to her  epiphany when her youngest was 10 months old?  That was only 3 months ago!!!  

 

Perhaps she should wait a bit, sit with her decision, before deciding she is suffeciently pro-vax that she write pieces for a fairly major player in the vaccine controversy.  I would certainly give her words more weight if the decision  was not quite so fresh.   


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#9 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 07:40 AM
 
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At the bottom of the V4V post there is a link to her blog.

http://naturalmomma.tumblr.com/

 

On her blog it says izzy is 1 year and 1 month old

Sophie is 2 years and 11 months old….

 

So..wait!…hold the presses…didn't she say she came to her  epiphany when her youngest was 10 months old?  That was only 3 months ago!!!  

 

Perhaps she should wait a bit, sit with her decision, before deciding she is suffeciently pro-vax that she write pieces for a fairly major player in the vaccine controversy.  I would certainly give her words more weight if the decision  was not quite so fresh.   

 

It also seems like quite a few "pro-vax" mums (including Megan Sandlin) have actually gone the sel/del route for their own children, and then call for everyone else to get vaccinated on schedule...

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#10 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 08:14 AM
 
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She's 20....that's so young and so naiive - I know I was at that age and I didn't even have kids!  Hell, I didn't even want them at that point in my life, I was all about me.  At 20 I was still in college being brainwashed in my animal science classes about injecting cows with hormones to produce more milk and how it was acceptable to maim the eyes of helpless bunnies for lab testing.  But anywho, I was also learning about vaccines and such and how wonderful the pharmaceutical industry was, and honestly, at that age you could have told me the sky was blue because of large mirrors projecting color into the sky and I would have believed it.  I had no idea how to do research - just how to open a textbook or website given to me by a university professor being funded by big pharm.  We were never taught to look at both sides, only that the "other" side was wrong or crazy. I agree that to go back and forth from vax to non vax and back to vax again is a huge change for that short time frame.  And only 3 mos into it? I'm sorry, but you can't possibly know that your child has zero side effects in that short time....epigenetics reappearing as our common theme here!

 

And shallow friendships is right.  I've never dumped friends for being pro-vax.  I have dumped them for bashing my decisions because they are pro-vax and believe they poop rainbows.  So while I don't doubt they are out there, in my experience I've always found more compassion and understanding from the non-vaxxers towards others than I've ever seen from the pro-vaxxing groups.

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#11 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 08:25 AM
 
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It also seems like quite a few "pro-vax" mums (including Megan Sandlin) have actually gone the sel/del route for their own children, and then call for everyone else to get vaccinated on schedule...

If you go over to the V4V site and look at the sub heading "becoming pro-vax" there are a number of posts where woman do this.

 

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/getting-with-the-schedule-slow-vax-to-pro-vax/

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/letting-go-of-the-paradigm-of-fear/

 

 

Vaccination is more than an ideology…it is an action.

 

It seems that ideologically they are pro-vax, but when it comes to actions, they are sel/delayed.  

 

I have no issues with sel/delayed - indeed I think it is a very wise position  (although I think very selective and very delayed is wiser than mildly selective and mildly delayed, but that is just my own default showing) .  But you need to own it - walk the walk and talk the talk. 

 

These are not typically people with older kids, either.

 

It is one thing to say "I was selective delayed with my kids, but if I had another I would probably do it on schedule" and quite another to be sitting there with your 9 month old saying you were sel/delayed with that child but now you see the error of your ways and on schedule is the way to go.  Um really?  Because you did not think that way five minutes ago.  It seems like on some level the moms know vaccines and really young babies are perhaps not the greatest idea, and are not willing to take the risk with their own babies, but are suggesting others do!

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#12 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 11:21 AM
 
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I feel like I ought to be very patient with her, as she's only 20 years old (and already the mother of 2!).  I can't help wondering what, if any, education she has, and why she can't seem to think for herself, and then I have to remind myself that she's only 20, and probably had her first baby at around 17, when most teenage girls are just learning to drive, and are worried about their SAT scores and picking out prom dresses, maybe thinking where they'd like to go to college.


 

I would love to know where a 20 year old like this really is! That is my first thought - NO I just can't believe ANY of it - I know of NO 20 year old, 17 with her first, who has all this time to even read, let alone now writes about it - please! You would think the could find more a bit realistic but hey this is what they want, she must have started researching at 12?!

 

she was in college after the first one, now has two under 5, she cloth diapers, and still has time to write a blog - nope I don't buy it at all - just L:stillheartVE how others do buy it :joy 


 

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#13 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 12:19 PM
 
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I would love to know where a 20 year old like this really is! That is my first thought - NO I just can't believe ANY of it - I know of NO 20 year old, 17 with her first, who has all this time to even read, let alone now writes about it - please! You would think the could find more a bit realistic but hey this is what they want, she must have started researching at 12?!

 

she was in college after the first one, now has two under 5, she cloth diapers, and still has time to write a blog - nope I don't buy it at all - just L:stillheartVE how others do buy it :joy 

 

Well, for all we know, she may have parents or siblings in town who help her with child care, or she and/or her husband may be independently wealthy, or she may be paid staff at V4V...

 

There are some 20-year-olds who are extremely mature and intelligent, and some who are not.

In general, I would tend to guess that a young woman who got pregnant at 17, has another baby before she's out of her teens,  publicly describes herself as "pansexual and polyamorous," and who demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills is not particularly mature.

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#14 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 02:14 PM
 
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Well, for all we know, she may have parents or siblings in town who help her with child care, or she and/or her husband may be independently wealthy, or she may be paid staff at V4V...

 

There are some 20-year-olds who are extremely mature and intelligent, and some who are not.

In general, I would tend to guess that a young woman who got pregnant at 17, has another baby before she's out of her teens,  publicly describes herself as "pansexual and polyamorous," and who demonstrates a lack of critical thinking skills is not particularly mature.

 

I just the HEAVY hit all the bases "crunch" factor they got with this one!

 

When it comes down to what really matter - relatability factor it's flat, gee who would find this interesting headscratch.gif think I will mull it over a hot cup of tea 


 

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#15 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 03:15 PM
 
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I got to thinking about how we are going to hear more and more of these types of stories.... and then i think about how all these years, moms have been coming out about vaccine damage, and it seems no one hears it very loudly - not unlike these provax msm pieces are hitting the 'net.  I'd like to read one about  a mom who didn't vax, then changed her mind, vaxed her child, the child had a life altering reaction, with the mom going back to her no vaccine status as before.  And then doubting what she read to become 'so informed' as to start vaccinating.  Parents have always been speaking out about why they chose not to vaccinate, but it seems the mainstream media has chosen to capitolize on weak women who have changed their mind and therefore vaccinated,  to further the agenda.  

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#16 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 05:25 PM
 
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I got to thinking about how we are going to hear more and more of these types of stories.... and then i think about how all these years, moms have been coming out about vaccine damage, and it seems no one hears it very loudly - not unlike these provax msm pieces are hitting the 'net. 

I agree.  I was thinking earlier today that the moms at Thinking Moms do great work and their stories (to my admittedly biased eyes) do not seem full of holes…yet how many people know of them?  They certainly have not hit msm.

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#17 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 05:56 PM
 
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I agree.  I was thinking earlier today that the moms at Thinking Moms do great work and their stories (to my admittedly biased eyes) do not seem full of holes…yet how many people know of them?  They certainly have not hit msm.

yes and isn't it ODD, the targeting??          so all .3%ers are soooo super crunchy!           stereotyping 


 

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#18 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 07:03 PM
 
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The whole thing that gets me is she admitted that she was following suit because it was trendy with the crowd she hung with.
I was 17 when I had my first and 19 with my 2nd and they received vax on schedual up until 4 y/o for DS and 2 y/o for DD. I had absolutely no clue that their was a choice involved with vaxing. I honestly thought it was all madatory. And ya wanna know why? Because I was still a kid who blindly followed. I didn't know about exemptions or how to research. So point being, I know from experience that being a teen mom, its easier to follow. I mean remember high school? She's probably still in high school mentality.

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#19 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 07:11 PM
 
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I find it hilarious when HomeBirth folks diss VaxSkipping. I don't know anyone whose child has even been hospitalized from Vax Skipping, but I know quite a few women personally who have had HomeBirth disasters up to & including actual forever & ever loss. The case for rejecting HomeBirth has way better numbers than the case for accepting the CDC schedule. I agree that she was just accepting the opinions of other people both times.
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#20 of 20 Old 02-11-2014, 07:14 PM
 
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And speaking of Vax on the Internetz, there is an author who I won't name, but she wrote a Vax book with a pun in the title. I took her book WAY more seriously before I found her on FB dropping the FBomb like they give a PhD in Profanity!
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