help..when partners disagree on vaxing - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-11-2014, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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we have a healthy 13 month old girl who just saw a dr for the first time. she pulled out all the stops and even dared to say my child would die. my husband worries and actually I think he likes to worry and find more reasons to worry. he was scared and without doing any of his own research has now decided hes taking her in on his own for her needles. he knows I dont want her to have any. I think this is honestly the line in the sand for me. can anyone relate? I need help desperately.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:07 PM
 
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She could die from the vaccines. Here is a list of side effects that the U.S. government admits are caused by vaccines. Some of the reactions can lead to death.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html

 

Hopefully your husband will become more educated about vaccines and the risks of the diseases, but in the meantime, I suggest you protect your daughter by sending a certified letter to the doctor's office, saying you absolutely do not consent to any vaccines for your daughter, no matter who brings her in. The doctor would have to be crazy to get involved in a situation like that. Or, you could withdraw your child from the practice by finding another doctor and having the records transferred.

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Old 03-11-2014, 06:38 PM
 
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I know someone whose husband didn't want their kid to get vaccinated, she was more on the fence. The husband took them to a holistic pediatrician who spent an hour talking about the dangers of vaccines. That convinced her.
Holistic drs don't take insurance though, so you'll have to pay out of pocket.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:37 PM
 
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Ask him what he'll do if she has a life threatening reaction? How will he feel then?  

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Old 03-11-2014, 08:02 PM
 
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I'm gonna take a guess that she's not vaxxed because you are the one who took the initiative to do the research and he did not follow?

 

That's about where I stand with my DH.  Now he would never take her anywhere without telling me, but he does worry far more than he should....which is mildly comical because as a FF/EMT he see's all sorts of ridiculous crap and isn't phased in the least bit by it, yet when it comes to his LO, totally different ball game.  He worries about diseases for which I have very little concern and I tell him that.  I offer things for him to read, he doesn't therefore in my book he doesn't get to make those decisions because he hasn't put any effort into it.

 

Do your best to share info with him, but in the end if you've done the leg work, you get the say.

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Old 03-11-2014, 08:10 PM
 
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^^ completely agree with Sassy. If that's the case, then tell him he gets a say when he actually does the research. That's what I did with my husband and he finally got on board after doing some reading.
If that's not the case, then present him with the evidence. But make sure it's from reputable sources that someone drinking the Kool Aid would actually listen to. The more experienced ladies around here could probably point you in the right direction.
Good luck.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:11 PM
 
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I do think it's important to take your baby in for the recommended well-baby check-ups--without the vaccines.   It doesn't sound like you are in the US, are you?  

Some babies do have health issues that a pediatrician can catch before a first-time parent (or even experienced parent) would catch them, and that can be life-or-death important, such as cardiac issues, which can subtly affect growth.

 

That said, it may be more of a risk to get your child caught up on vaccines than it would to remain unvaccinated.  There are fewer babies who die of "vaccine-preventable diseases" than who have vaccine-induced seizures, autoimmune disorders, or other health issues. Depending on where you live, you might be able to find a different pediatrician, who is willing to work with you and your beliefs.

 

In the meantime, here is the Congressional testimony of a father whose 5-month-old daughter died of a vaccine reaction: http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Hepatitis-B/fatherstory.aspx

 

Perhaps it might help if your husband read that.

It's also very important that you both read and research the diseases for which vaccines are available--AND the risks, efficacy, and safety profile of each vaccine.  This can take a while, and be hard work.  It's rather like doing a college-level research paper.  You have to not only find out what the manufacturer and the government  have to say about vaccines--you also have to see what those criticizing have to say about vaccines, and about the manufacturers, and about the government bodies who fund the manufacturers.

Learn everything you can about BOTH sides.  

It might save your marriage if you can research this together, and discuss what makes sense to each of you, and what frightens each of you.  Communication is so important.

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Old 03-12-2014, 02:40 PM
 
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First off, I have so much compassion for you...so  much. So, an important thing is to remember that your partner is this reactive because he cares so much for his child.

Unfortunately, he is being swayed by a person, although a physician, hence one would think well versed on health, that does not know the full story about vaccines. My advice is that you ask your partner for a 6 month breathing space where you can really deeply and together study  about vaccines.

I would love to personally support you in this. You can email me directly at [email protected] I have studied vaccines in two different schools, have taught classes on the subject and recently took part in a study on children that have not been vaccinated. I do have loads of resources from MDS, and reputable sources, including tons of medical studies supporting that vaccines can be quite harmful. I would prefer to speak to you individually, as I do not like to get caught up in the hot bed that this subject ignites on forums. Warm wishes to you, P

 

At the very least I would also look in the area for different physicians. There are websites and mds that do not agree with vaccines.

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Old 03-12-2014, 02:48 PM
 
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OP and psullivan, you can communicate in private on this forum via pm.  

Providing an internet stranger with your personal email address can be risky, no matter how kind and caring they sound....

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Old 03-13-2014, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I really appreciate everyone for taking the time to give me some advice and helpful information. if it is ok, I would love to pm you psullivan. I feel providing this information to my husband is my only option at this point. And you are right, we both care so much and want what's best but he has certainly been pusuaded by a physician unfortunately. we arent speaking at the moment, and he basically said hes going to do it. I already have terrible pp anxiety and I feel myself falling into a depression over this. I spend every second with my daughter and I have tried so hard to make the right decisions, not for me but for her. and I truly feel hes doing this to put himself at ease. I fear that this situation is an indicator of big decisions in the future as parents and our proven inability to share, communicate and be open and honest.i feel bullied and manipulated because he wont talk or look at me. its a very sad and lonely place to be. now I fear he is going to take her in any moment and do it without my consent or presence. which is probably a bit irrational. im scared also we will be reported by the doctor (my husband said I was acting crazy and that I seemed suspicious...I was very understandbly nervous). im trying to stay strong but its hard when youlive together and are walking on eggshells in such an awkward environment with someone you once trusted and now feel very alienated and betrayed by
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deailedlace View Post

I really appreciate everyone for taking the time to give me some advice and helpful information. if it is ok, I would love to pm you psullivan. I feel providing this information to my husband is my only option at this point. And you are right, we both care so much and want what's best but he has certainly been pusuaded by a physician unfortunately. we arent speaking at the moment, and he basically said hes going to do it. I already have terrible pp anxiety and I feel myself falling into a depression over this. I spend every second with my daughter and I have tried so hard to make the right decisions, not for me but for her. and I truly feel hes doing this to put himself at ease. I fear that this situation is an indicator of big decisions in the future as parents and our proven inability to share, communicate and be open and honest.i feel bullied and manipulated because he wont talk or look at me. its a very sad and lonely place to be. now I fear he is going to take her in any moment and do it without my consent or presence. which is probably a bit irrational. im scared also we will be reported by the doctor (my husband said I was acting crazy and that I seemed suspicious...I was very understandbly nervous). im trying to stay strong but its hard when youlive together and are walking on eggshells in such an awkward environment with someone you once trusted and now feel very alienated and betrayed by

honestly, it sounds abusive to me...I wouldn't tolerate my partner treating me like that, and it almost sounds like more is going on than just a vaccine issue.  You have every right to feel afraid.  You should not be feeling like your'e walking on eggshells, and his making threats like that, knowing how nervous it makes you.  Brutally honest here, please look into some counseling, as your situation sounds like it could potentially get worse.  A lot worse.   If he gets mad about you seeking counseling, that is a big red flag, and you truly need help.  No one should have to live in fear over what their spouse might do to one of their children against their wishes. 

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Old 03-13-2014, 10:51 AM
 
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I agree on the counseling.  Not speaking to each other?  Not good.

 

If he's been convinced by an overly-pharma-happy pediatrician, he may honestly believe that you are subscribing to crackpot theories by questioning vaccine safety.  If he honestly believes that, he may--quite legitimately--feel that you have betrayed him.  Of course you haven't--but his feelings, under the circumstances (being lectured and deliberately frightened by a medical authority figure), really are legitimate.

 

Your feelings are every bit as legitimate--he's not listening to you, he's threatening to do something with your child that you don't agree with, against your specific request.

 

Honestly, there are health risks on both sides here.  There is a risk in letting a child catch a disease.  There is a risk in vaccination. 

 

So, let's take this same behavior into another example, but one without any health risks on either side, and examine the behaviors.


Let's say, you don't want your baby to have Barbie dolls until she's old enough for appropriate play with them.  Your husband knows this, but takes her to BarbieMart anyway, and buys her 17 Barbie dolls, because he thinks Barbie dolls are perfectly appropriate for little girls, and he doesn't understand why you want to wait.

 

Who betrayed whom in this little scenario?

Yeah.  Your husband.  

Bottom line:  you don't do anything to change a previously-agreed-upon situation until both parents agree.  Otherwise, it's betrayal.

 

Now, that agreement might call for some compromise.  In the Barbie example, you might say, "well, I can live with BUYING the Barbies now, and giving her one this year to see how she handles it."

For vaccines, same thing.  You might be able to live with your child getting ONE vaccine, and see how she deals with it.  He might be able to compromise by, say, agreeing to wait until she is verbal enough to tell you about any symptoms.

 

You could have that as your official Fall-Back Position, with the idea of waiting, say, a month or two, so that you can go to counseling FIRST, and hash out some of these trust issues.

 

It also occurs to me that you might want to have YOUR position in writing.  Save texts and emails to him, and maybe (since you're not "talking," anyway) propose a counseling/compromise route in an email to him (that you can save).

The reason I suggest this is, he might be the most wonderful man in the world. Or he might be one hell of a control freak, and you may end up needing to prove a few things in a divorce down the road.  You will want to be able to prove that you WERE willing to compromise, you were NOT a crazy anti-vax loon, you were just worried about adverse reactions, and you were willing to both compromise and to seek counseling together.

Every now and then, we read about some parent (usually the mom) whose husband uses her supposed anti-vax lunacy to wrench custody away from her.

 

So, follow your instincts, protect your child, do whatever is reasonable to save your marriage if that seems right--but protect yourself as well. 

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Old 03-13-2014, 10:57 AM
 
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One more thought: You might send a registered letter to your pediatrician's office, saying that you have NOT decided to withhold vaccines forever, but at this point, you would like to delay a little longer, and that you are officially withholding your permission for your daughter to be vaccinated at their office until _______ date, at which point you would consider ONE vaccine at a time, with 3 months between vaccines.  Or something like that.  And that you request that your daughter's file be flagged so that she is not vaccinated without YOUR permission, as you have concerns due to YOUR family's medical history with vaccines.

 

That way, there is some kind of legal impediment to their administering a vaccine without your permission.  Even if they have your husband's permission, if they vaccinate AGAINST your written request, they are opening themselves up to legal action. 

Can other MDC folks weigh in on this idea?  There might be something I'm missing here.

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Old 03-13-2014, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you. I appreciate your honesty.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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taximom5 I cant thank you enough. you really pointed some things out that I had not thought of....thank you. I have some to ork to do in order to prepare for the best or worst cats scenario. and when it comes down to it I cant say im 100% on either side. both risks on both sides scare me. I just want to feel like we talked things out and both agree on how to move forward
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:27 AM
 
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Sorry you're going through this. All you can do is try to educate him. Sit down and tell him that he needs to give you a bit of time to present some information before making such big decision. Tell him that you can always decide to vaccinate in the future, but you can never unvaccinate once that injection is done. Hopefully he will be reasonable and at least have a mature discussion.

 

Taximom5, from what I understand, either parent can take a child in for vaccinations (even if that parent is the non-custodial parent) with no questions asked. I hope I'm wrong.


Non-vaxing, vegetarian, green lovin' mama to two little divas.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:32 PM
 
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Chloebelle, I'm sure you're right, but it seems to me that if one parent voices concern for medical reasons (family history of vaccine reaction, autoimmune issues, etc), AND gets the pediatrician to flag the child's file, that might be enough for the pediatrician and staff to worry about covering their legal butts...

 

deailedlace, I think it may come down to realizing that, ultimately, compromising on 1 vaccine at a time, done at 2 or 3 month intervals, is far, far less risky than having your husband take your daughter for 9 vaccines at once without your permission. 

 

If it does come down to that, then you might have a better chance of talking your husband out of the totally unnecessary-by-any-standards-vaccines* if you agree to doing others over the next few years.


*flu shot (unnecessary because the studies indicate NO benefit to children your daughter's age)

*rotavirus (the CDC says NOT to give it after age 8 months)

* hepatitis B (unnecessary at this age UNLESS you or your husband is a carrier of the virus)

*DTaP:  Your daughter's chances of contracting diphtheria are almost nonexistent.  Same with tetanus unless she's walking barefoot around a farm.  Pertussis she COULD get--but it's far more dangerous for the under-6-month babies.  And the vaccine is no longer very effective, PLUS it doesn't stop her from spreading pertussis--it only stops the symptoms (plenty of sites on that).  If your husband is still anxious for her to get that vaccine, look up the adverse events reports on VAERS and show him what could happen.

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