The real costs of "Vaccine Court" - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 15 Old 03-17-2014, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We frequently see the most rabid pro-vaxxers insisting that it's a simple thing to take your vaccine injury case to the US Department of Health and Human Services "Vaccine Court," that the odds are stacked in your favor, and that the government even pays for your attorney.

 

They make it sound like it's a walk in the park.

In truth, it's anything but.

First off, the idea of suing an entity that is both paying for your attorney and controlling the outcome of your suit...well, it sounds laughable, to say the least.


But another expense is that you have to still pay for whatever expert opinions you provide to the court.


So, let's see, you have to convince both an attorney and several doctors that it's worth their time to take on the US government (whose expert witnesses are provided by the pharmaceutical industry) AND the pharmaceutical industry--who is backed by the US government.  The vast majority of these cases lose; how many doctors and lawyers want on their professional record the fact that the case they presented to the government was thrown out?

It's clearly a losing battle before you even start.


And that's exactly what even those who have won their case have said--and that's not even taking into account the time and stress involved over the YEARS it takes to get to the actual hearing.

 

What are some of the other costs to families of vaccine injury victims?

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#2 of 15 Old 03-17-2014, 11:35 AM
 
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These poor parents are trying to scrape the money together to retain medical experts to help prepare their reports for the Special Master. Kaylynne Matten was killed by the flu vaccine.

 

http://www.youcaring.com/other/kaylynne-matten-s-flu-shot-death-case-needs-your-help-/144320

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#3 of 15 Old 03-17-2014, 06:25 PM
 
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Is it possible to hire your own attorneys?  NVIC used to have a list of attorneys who worked with adverse event families.

 

It should be a simple personal injury case in which the plaintiff would file the case and the lawyer would get 50% if they won - and the attorney would only take a case like that if it had merit.

 

I know it is the same way in Family Court with CPS.

 

This is all paid for with the vaccine tax? I suggest we all de-fund it by refusing vaccines. Let it fall on its own face for lack of funding.

 

In the meantime, these parents need to take off of work and other responsibilities to meet with doctors, lawyers, counselors, therapists, and put the rest of family life on hold. Mom can't go back to school as planned to finish her degree; her time will be spent learning how to care for the vaccine injured child. Dad can't make special meetings at work, and this results in Dad not getting the raise/promotion he needed so desperately. There are no family vacations.  The other children cannot go to Little League, Soccer, drama, piano lessons, music lessons,  religious school, 4-H, FFA, DeMolay, Job's Daughters, or any other extra-curricular activities. Dad has to drop out of the Rotary Club, which ironically funds vaccines for third world nations.  The family cannot go out of town to visit family for the holidays or summer, nor can the family have out-of-towners in for visits. The addition to the house is delayed indefinitely.  The case will drag on for years. Depending on the disability, the living room will become an ICU for the afflicted child.  Many times, the family may divorce, lose their home, or turn the child over to the state hospital system. Sad.

All the time, the doctors will deny the vaccines had anything to do with the disability; the parents will be accused of mass hysteria, conversion disorder, psychogenic illness, Munchausen by proxy, fabricated illness – all are terms familiar to those who experience new idiopathic and iatrogenic medical conditions.

 

All the time, everyone will simply say that no one knows why or how your child is so sick, when the family knows all too well.

 

The parents will be treated poorly by the attorneys, the judges, the doctors who testify on behalf of the drug companies and even by their own expert witnesses.   The underlying theme is that the parents caused this damage to their child. It is all their fault.

All this, because the pediatrician lied about the safety of the vaccine, and the parent believed him/her.


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#4 of 15 Old 03-17-2014, 07:07 PM
 
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Compare that with my own mother's and other mothers' experiences just a generation ago who had large families and would handle many children who had measles, mumps, rubella, the flu, chicken pox, and maybe a few cases of pertussis or "chronic bronchitis" over the years, carefully recording the dates in the baby books and noting it for the doctor.  They also did carpools, sports, music, and the many school activities in addition to a doctor's visit here or there for allergies, acne, orthodontia, eye glasses, contact lenses, or asthma. Now and then one child ended up in the hospital with a broken leg, appendicitis, tonsillectomy, and a nose job or two, or three. Nothing too debilitating.

 

Moms sometimes went back to school, Dad might get a raise or promotion. Some families go involved in community organizations. Some families moved or added on to their home. Life went on.  Some families had a vacation here and there. Families came to visit, and we reciprocated. We enjoyed each others successes and commiserated with each other with our losses. 

But the loss of a healthy child to a chronic illness that requires special attention and care with no cure or explanation is equal to a human sacrifice of untold proportions.

"That is just the way it is." 

"It is normal to look for a reason or cause, but there is none."

 

There is nothing normal about vaccine damage.


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#5 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 12:18 AM
 
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If you read the book by Dr. Offit, The Cutter Incident, you know that Dr. Offit does not believe that anyone with vaccine damage should be compensated for it. Anne Gottsdanker, the featured polio victim in the book who got polio from the Cutter vaccine, is 64 and lives in Lancaster, CA. She was a professor of some kind at one of the community colleges in the High Desert. She walked on crutches for years with leg braces and now is in a wheelchair. Her brother got the vaccination at the same time, he became mildly ill, but recovered fully.

http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/vaccines/GOTTSDANKER.htm

 

Many of the cases that went to court were under a plaintiff attorney, Melvin Belli, the King of Torts, who made a name for himself in the establishment of product liability law, the concept that a person should be able to sue a manufacturer for negligence and liability for making a defective product that causes injury and damage to a person who buys the manufactured product uses the product as it is meant to be used. He argued  that all products have an implied warranty, that it is to be foreseen that products will be used by a long chain of people, not just the direct recipient of the manufactured product, and that negligence by a defendant need not be proven if the defendant's product is defective. Belli also was one of the first major attorneys to prominently use demonstrative evidence and courtroom exhibits (such as graphics, charts, photographs, and films).

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#6 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If you read the book by Dr. Offit, The Cutter Incident, you know that Dr. Offit does not believe that anyone with vaccine damage should be compensated for it. 



WHAT???????

 

I have not read the book, though I guess I should (know your enemy and all that).  

What the HELL is his official reason for believing that people with vaccine damage should not be compensated for it?

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#7 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 09:23 AM
 
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Duh, because vaccines reactions don't exist, you should know that :wink  Although I'm sure he chalks it up to "taking one for the team" because they are far rarer than complications from disease so someone somewhere just has to take the hit.....

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#8 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 11:13 AM
 
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Dr. Paul Offit, MD, believes that the bar for proving vaccine damage is too low, the payouts are too high, and too many families get compensated.  He feels that vaccine damage is very rare and exaggerated by most parents who have never seen those terrible childhood diseases. That people suffer from mass hysteria, conversion disorder, psychogenic illness, Munchausen by proxy, fabricated illness, or the family knows their child was different and never said anything until the condition got worse.  He says - Vaccines prevent more disease and death than we ever will know, and vaccines are victims of their own success. You are part of a generation that does not have to worry about these terrible diseases and you do not know how grateful you should be.  Vaccine damage is all in your head.  Dr. Offit does not like vitamin supplementation and does not allow it in his CHOPS patients.

 

As a woman who is the same age as Paul Offit I saw classmates with polio, scarlet fever, and rheumatic fever, who as a young girl suffered through and survived and acquired immunity to measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, the flu, rotavirus, and hepatitis A, these diseases are not dangerous to any child who is breastfed, properly nourished and sheltered. Better hygiene, sanitation, potable water, and living conditions have gone a long way to improving our health and survival. Vaccines are not in the equation for anyone's health.

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#9 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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 Dr. Offit does not like vitamin supplementation and does not allow it in his CHOPS patients.

 

 

 

He doesn't ALLOW it?  

Oh, my.  He really is trying to harm them.  Even mainstream science agrees that the majority of US citizens are clinically deficient in Vitamin D, B12, etc., even admitting that rickets, pellagra,  anemia,and even scurvy are still present in developed countries such as the US.

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 Dr. Offit does not like vitamin supplementation and does not allow it in his CHOPS patients.

 

As a woman who is the same age as Paul Offit I saw classmates with polio, scarlet fever, and rheumatic fever, who as a young girl suffered through and survived and acquired immunity to measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, the flu, rotavirus, and hepatitis A, these diseases are not dangerous to any child who is breastfed, properly nourished and sheltered. Better hygiene, sanitation, potable water, and living conditions have gone a long way to improving our health and survival. Vaccines are not in the equation for anyone's health.

 


I'm a generation behind you, but even my generation--where probably the  majority of us were NOT breastfed--still had no problems with measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, flu, rotavirus, hepatitis, and chicken pox.

My generation didn't have problems with chronic ear infections, either, or asthma.  Both were unheard of when I was growing up.

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#10 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 02:10 PM
 
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Thank you, Taximom5.  I should add that I am the oldest of a large family. We all had the same diseases eventually over the years, and I saw my siblings get these diseases and recover.

 

Quote:

My generation didn't have problems with chronic ear infections, either, or asthma.  Both were unheard of when I was growing up. 

My oldest son is 31. Every single time I took him to the pediatrician, (not for vaccines, just for checkups) I was told he had an earache. He slept well and was a really happy baby. I do not know what the doctor was looking at. He told me my daughter had an earache too even though she never complained. I think he may have said that to keep me coming in.  With my younger two, I rarely took them in. I was too busy. Who knows if they had an earache. They grew up and are fine.

My middle boy has a hearing loss from working at McDonald's in high school and using those headphones - they are never cleaned properly and he got some kind of virus which caused a profound deafness in one ear. So, one does not need to have measles or mumps to be deaf. My son did not get this diagnosis until three years after he left his position there, after college.

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#11 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 02:22 PM
 
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He doesn't ALLOW it?  

Oh, my.  He really is trying to harm them.  Even mainstream science agrees that the majority of US citizens are clinically deficient in Vitamin D, B12, etc., even admitting that rickets, pellagra,  anemia,and even scurvy are still present in developed countries such as the US.

 

 

It is in the name of 'patient safety' what a joke, given that correctly prescribed pharmaceuticals kill conservatively over 100,000 patients a year and supplements zero.

 

Quote:
“CHOP has long embraced its responsibility to advance patient safety as the cornerstone to improving children’s health.” said Paul Offit, MD, Chair of the hospital’s Therapeutic Standards Committee. “Patients with chronic diseases use dietary supplements more frequently than the general population and are at greater risk for adverse events and interactions. Better monitoring and regulating the way we distribute these products is one more step we can take to make sure that we’re providing the best possible medical care for our children.” 

http://www.research.chop.edu/blog/childrens-hospital-first-nation-disallow-use-dietary-supplements/

 

CHOP is a hospital to avoid at all costs if you have a sick child. As would Boston's Children's as they kidnap kids of parents who don't agree with their treatment.


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#12 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 02:54 PM
 
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“CHOP has long embraced its responsibility to advance patient safety as the cornerstone to improving children’s health.” said Paul Offit, MD, Chair of the hospital’s Therapeutic Standards Committee. “Patients with chronic diseases use dietary supplements more frequently than the general population and are at greater risk for adverse events and interactions. Better monitoring and regulating the way we distribute these products is one more step we can take to make sure that we’re providing the best possible medical care for our children.” 

http://www.research.chop.edu/blog/childrens-hospital-first-nation-disallow-use-dietary-supplements/

 

What a load of crap. It reminds me of that news story that was being parroted all over the mainstream media about how supplements cause liver damage (my guess is probably from not being used correctly).

 

But the original report showed that medications were the biggest cause of liver damage (btw this fact seems to have been scrubbed from the news stories and I can no longer easily find a reference to the meds numbers versus the supplement numbers).

 

Quote:
CHOP is a hospital to avoid at all costs if you have a sick child. As would Boston's Children's as they kidnap kids of parents who don't agree with their treatment.

 

I'm leery of any large children's hospital. They seem to dispense pro-pharma advice more readily than seeing a doctor in private practice.

 

For instance I had to take my daughter to one for evaluation of a leg problem, and the head of pediatric orthopedics said that only surgery would correct it. I've been told that myself for joint and feet problems, but the doctors were wrong.

If only there were a device that would allow us to see what yacht or Mercedes these doctors are thinking about when they advise expensive surgery as the ONLY solution to problems.

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#13 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
“CHOP has long embraced its responsibility to advance patient safety as the cornerstone to improving children’s health.” said Paul Offit, MD, Chair of the hospital’s Therapeutic Standards Committee. “Patients with chronic diseases use dietary supplements more frequently than the general population and are at greater risk for adverse events and interactions. Better monitoring and regulating the way we distribute these products is one more step we can take to make sure that we’re providing the best possible medical care for our children.” 

http://www.research.chop.edu/blog/childrens-hospital-first-nation-disallow-use-dietary-supplements/

 

Re: the bolded, the reason the patients are taking supplements are
1) the medication that they were prescribed doesn't work and 

2) their illness is linked with vitamin deficiency, not with medication deficiency.

 

Notice how they imply that the people with chronic disease GOT them from taking the supplements.  That's like saying, "Patients with chronic arthritis use walkers more frequently than the general population and are at greater risk for adverse events--we'd better watch out for those walkers!"

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post
 

 

What a load of crap. It reminds me of that news story that was being parroted all over the mainstream media about how supplements cause liver damage (my guess is probably from not being used correctly).

 

But the original report showed that medications were the biggest cause of liver damage (btw this fact seems to have been scrubbed from the news stories and I can no longer easily find a reference to the meds numbers versus the supplement numbers).

 

 

I'm leery of any large children's hospital. They seem to dispense pro-pharma advice more readily than seeing a doctor in private practice.

 

For instance I had to take my daughter to one for evaluation of a leg problem, and the head of pediatric orthopedics said that only surgery would correct it. I've been told that myself for joint and feet problems, but the doctors were wrong.

If only there were a device that would allow us to see what yacht or Mercedes these doctors are thinking about when they advise expensive surgery as the ONLY solution to problems.


Incidentally, supplements ARE regulated by the FDA; they're just not regulated by the pharmaceutical industry.

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#14 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 03:16 PM
 
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 CHOP is a hospital to avoid at all costs if you have a sick child. As would Boston's Children's as they kidnap kids of parents who don't agree with their treatment.

This is true, coast to coast.  It happened a year ago - a six month old boy who was taken from his mother's arms in their home by CPS with the help of the local police because they went for a second opinion regarding their son's heart condition; the nurse was giving the baby meds that the doctor said he should not have, so the mom decided no at Sutter knew what they were doing. There was the home video of this on youtube, but I have not been able to find it recently.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/04/30/baby-taken-from-parents-who-sought-second-opinion-removed-from-protective/

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/child-protection-services-investigated-in-california-after-international-child-abduction-uproar-in-sacramento/


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#15 of 15 Old 03-18-2014, 08:50 PM
 
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I remember reading about that and almost peeing my pants with fear and anger. How dare they. Stories like these make me terrified of the idea that I should ever have to take my baby to the hospital. What kind of world are we living in when you can no longer ask for a second opinion without your child being taken from you.
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