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#1 of 32 Old 03-23-2014, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, golly gee, since no one can pinpoint the source of an outbreak, why let's just make it up that some foreigner brought the disease over here, and spread it, because 'we don't know' their vaccine status.  Yup, seems to be media's new scapegoat - the foreigner. 

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#2 of 32 Old 03-23-2014, 04:54 AM
 
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Do you have any links?
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#3 of 32 Old 03-23-2014, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Do you have any links?

not off the top of my fingers..the latest i read is about the mumps outbreak, and how it's possible someone who was 'unvaccinated from out of the country' could have started it, because his status isn't known.  But i've seen the same kind of reporting with the measles hoopla in NYC too..

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#4 of 32 Old 03-23-2014, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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"Usually the source is from some traveler who has gone outside the U.S.," Esper said.

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/03/mumps_outbreak_at_ohio_state_f.html

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#5 of 32 Old 03-23-2014, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Dr. Varma said the first two cases were in adults who had traveled outside New York and who did not know each other but were probably infected at the same airport in the United States. He declined to identify the airport. Both had activities that brought them to northern Manhattan and that included health care facilities, he said, declining to provide more details.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/nyregion/measles-outbreak-in-new-york-may-have-spread-in-medical-facilities.html

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#6 of 32 Old 03-24-2014, 08:33 AM
 
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Par for the course - if they don't know, lets blame another countries vax schedule for sending over "unvaxxed" people :p

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#7 of 32 Old 03-24-2014, 12:05 PM
 
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"Dr. Varma said the first two cases were in adults who had traveled outside New York and who did not know each other but were probably infected at the same airport in the United States. He declined to identify the airport. Both had activities that brought them to northern Manhattan and that included health care facilities, he said, declining to provide more details.

Only three of the 11 had records proving they had been vaccinated, though others believed they had been.   In rare instances, a vaccinated person can become infected later in life."

Notice how they did NOT say the first two cases were unvaccinated.

In fact, they don't say that any of the adults were unvaccinated.  Because, most likely, they WERE vaccinated.

How rare can these instances be when there were 11 at once?

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#8 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Richard Sanchez, director of the Orange County Health Care Agency, said the entire state of California only had three cases of measles in the past five years. Currently, the state reported 35 cases of measles most likely brought to the area via travelers from Europe or the Philippines, two areas experiencing measles outbreaks.



Read more: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2014/03/27/Measles-outbreak-in-California-growing-21-cases-in-one-county/5151395940214/#ixzz2xRiCN3kv

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#9 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 07:39 AM
 
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This always amuses me greatly. As someone who immigrated to the US (from Canada... I'm not exotic and interesting ;)), you can't legally immigrate without being "up to date" on vaccinations. Travel is a little different, I guess, but part of the process required me to go to an approved USCIS doctor and pay a stupid amount of money for them to verify that I'm not on drugs, I have all of the "required" vaccines and I'm the gender I say I am. 

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#10 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 07:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by keakiepie View Post
 

This always amuses me greatly. As someone who immigrated to the US (from Canada... I'm not exotic and interesting :lol), you can't legally immigrate without being "up to date" on vaccinations. Travel is a little different, I guess, but part of the process required me to go to an approved USCIS doctor and pay a stupid amount of money for them to verify that I'm not on drugs, I have all of the "required" vaccines and I'm the gender I say I am. 

Japonica, IIRC,  who emigrated to Australia, says the same thing.

 

I also think (and we had a discussion on xenophobia recently) that a lot of the foreigner blaming does come down to ignorance.  Many do not realise that most foreign countries have comprehensive vaccination programs and high vaccination rate.  Mexico comes to mind.  

 

Now, I do think that on occasion it is true that the diseases has come from a foreigners, or from someone who has recently traveled to a place where a disease is having an outbreak, but everyone needs to be careful and fact check before jumping to the "dirty foreigner" nonsense as the source of disease.  


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#11 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 08:34 AM
 
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Or it's the vaccines that we make them get that causes them to shed disease!

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#12 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 09:20 AM
 
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Well, now Paul Offit wants journalists jailed for "faulty medical reporting". 

 

What a joke:

 

Quote:

But he notes that his authority as a highly-trained and experienced professional should not be the only consideration.

“They don’t know the data,” said Offit. “What I say, what others say doesn’t matter. Where is the data?”

Offit added that he’s troubled by so-called journalistic “balance” when the contentions of only one side is supported by science. He called instead for “perspective” in reporting.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2014/03/29/dr-paul-offit-journalism-jail-for-false-equivalence-medical-reporting/

 

 

Oops, Dr Boyd, anyone?

 

 

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Mirzam, can you post a link to the Offit quote? 

That is so disgusting, I don't even know where to start.

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#14 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 10:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

Mirzam, can you post a link to the Offit quote? 

That is so disgusting, I don't even know where to start.

Oops, sorry. I will edit my post.


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#15 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 11:10 AM
 
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Forbes is primarily a business and investment magazine.  Interesting how it cranks out pro-vaccine piece after pro-vaccine piece…...


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#16 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 11:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by keakiepie View Post
 

This always amuses me greatly. As someone who immigrated to the US (from Canada... I'm not exotic and interesting ;)), you can't legally immigrate without being "up to date" on vaccinations. Travel is a little different, I guess, but part of the process required me to go to an approved USCIS doctor and pay a stupid amount of money for them to verify that I'm not on drugs, I have all of the "required" vaccines and I'm the gender I say I am

 

That's what I thought too! It's my understanding that the U.S. requires everyone who comes here to be vaccinated up the wazoo. I could be wrong but if I am I hope someone knowledgeable chimes in.


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But he notes that his authority as a highly-trained and experienced professional should not be the only consideration.

“They don’t know the data,” said Offit. “What I say, what others say doesn’t matter. Where is the data?”

Offit added that he’s troubled by so-called journalistic “balance” when the contentions of only one side is supported by science. He called instead for “perspective” in reporting.

Are you kidding me? As if the media aren't already owned....and uh, question:  What's up with this "they don't know the data" - does he have some secret stockpile he's not sharing? Because it doesn't take a PhD to look though these published studies and read the information...

 

I'm troubled by the "unbalance" so I'm not even sure where the hell he sees any sort of balance out there in the media.  Perspective my ass - if it's not their way it's the highway! Because he clearly will not acknowledge ANY information that he doesn't benefit from.

 

"It's what I hate about this government - everything's in Red!" - quote from Anastasia :wink

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#18 of 32 Old 03-30-2014, 01:10 PM
 
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I thought this was an interesting example of how the media on either side of the pond present a story. Some skeletons were excavated during the building of a new train line in London. The bodes date from medieval times and were thought to have died from the plague. The Indpendent's story centered around the fact researchers now believe the plague was not spread by fleas on the back of rats but in fact was an air borne infection.

 

Quote:
The findings will be featured in a new Channel 4 programme, Return Of The Black Death, during which scientists from Public Health England in Porton Down will argue that the DNA evidence shows that the plague must have been spread by coughs and sneezes rather than flees on rats - as has been popular belief for many years.

 

The article also talks about the overall poor health of the bodies, and the infection spread because of malnutrition:


 

Quote:

The team led by Dr Tim Brooks argue that the infection spread so fast that it must have got into the lungs of already malnourished victims, meaning the outbreaks were in fact pneumonic plague rather than a bubonic plague.

 

Many of the bodies showed signs of poor health and of having jobs that involved heavy manual labour, the Queen's University researchers said, noting a high rate of back damage and strain.

 

 

Pro-vaxxers have often argued that you can't use the Plague as an example of a disease that was eradicated without a vaccine because of its mode of infection, fleas on the back of rats, so of course better sanitation would have eradicated it. But if, as it appears, it would have been impossible for the plague to spread so quickly via rats, and that it is much more logical that it was a pneumonic plague.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/black-death-skeletons-dug-up-during-london-crossrail-excavations-9224469.html

 

Okay, let's look what they said in the Washington Post. 

 

Quote:
The Black Death is thought to have killed at least 75 million people, including more than half of Britain’s population, yet the burials suggest a surprisingly high degree of social order — at first. As the plague ravaged continental Europe — borne westward by fleas on rats — city fathers leased land for an emergency burial ground. 

 

You can't have the US population exposed to ideas that might challenge the prevailing view, so they completely disregarded one of the main premisses of the research.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/london-skeletons-reveal-secrets-of-the-black-death/2014/03/29/f52ecb02-b79e-11e3-9eb3-c254bdb4414d_story.html


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From the Forbes article:

 

"In the Q&A that followed the talk, managing editor ofThe Daily Briefing and Forbes contributor, Dan Diamond, asked Offit if journalists write stories about “debate” on vaccines– and people die from not getting vaccinated–are we party to murder.

Offit responded with the idea that we should have “journalism jail” for such individuals.

Although that kicker brought some laughter among the audience, Offit later added more solemnly, “You work in a hospital and you watch children die from preventable disease–it makes you passionate.”

So just what is journalism jail? Watch for it down the pike!  Will hubris be his downfall?

 

 


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Every time PrOffit opens his mouth, I die a little inside. Can I be vaccinated against his arrogance, ignorance and obnoxiousness? That I could be talked into.


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#21 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 05:43 AM
 
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Every time PrOffit opens his mouth, I die a little inside. Can I be vaccinated against his arrogance, ignorance and obnoxiousness? That I could be talked into.

Like when he told the UK they should have school entry tied to vaccination?  Such an arrogant position.  


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#22 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 05:46 AM
 
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I hadn't seen that one, but that sounds about right for him. disappointed.gif What a piece of work.


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For your reading (dis)pleasure:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-22089485

 

"Dr Paul Offit, a US-based measles expert, told the BBC that mandatory vaccinations in America had prevented similar outbreaks.

His comments came as measles cases in the Swansea area rose to 620.

The Welsh government said it believed the "hard won trust" in MMR would be damaged if vaccination was compulsory.

Public Health Wales (PHW) said there were no signs of a slow down in cases.

Speaking on BBC Newsnight, Dr Offit said Britain would benefit from American-style mandatory vaccinations."

 

 


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#24 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 08:07 AM
 
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He may want to fact check himself because, much to the dismay of the militant pro-vax community and the people who benefit from it, there is no such thing as "mandatory vaccination" in America, at least not yet. Furthermore, the coverage rates and measles cases over the last several decades DON'T have a consistent correlation.

I mean, really. If you're going to be pompous and outspoken at least try to come up with things that aren't so easily disproven.

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#25 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 08:49 AM
 
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A bit OT about the plague. It is not eradicated. It is still found now and then on a feral squirrel or other rodent.

- AND -
Quote:
 ... mode of infection, fleas on the back of rats, ...

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/03/30/london-skeletons-reveal-secrets-of-the-black-death/20859524/

Historically, epidemiologists often note that plagues follow wars and/or famines

Quote:
Many of the skeletons showed signs of malnutrition consistent with the "Great Famine" that struck Europe 30 years before the Black Death. 


From - http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/31/everything-you-know-about-the-black-death-is-wrong-say-the-bones/

Quote:
 Most of the ensuing coverage focused on the finding that the disease wasn’t likely spread by rats’ fleas, as has been taught in every high school in the West, but had actually been airborne. ...
The poor health hints at how easily the plague swept across the continent. The disease was pneumonic – not bubonic – meaning that coughing and sneezing likely spread the sickness. Then rampant malnutrition perhaps widened its swath.

Where have you read that before?

Sorry, I did not see the post above.  Sorry. Delete if possible.

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#26 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Found this article on the different countries and their vaccine schedule

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/janak/080605

Vaccinations by the age of 2 years old

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#27 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 02:29 PM
 
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Well, Dr Pr Offit was flown in to CO to 'help' with the parental coercion bill. The woman with him in the photo on the right is Sundari Kraft, the V4V's CO representative.

 

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#28 of 32 Old 03-31-2014, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, Dr Pr Offit was flown in to CO to 'help' with the parental coercion bill. The woman with him in the photo on the right is Sundari Kraft, the V4V's CO representative.

 

excuse me while i go throw up

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#29 of 32 Old 04-01-2014, 05:38 AM
 
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Finland, Iceland, and Sweden only have only 11 or `12 vaccines by the age of 2.  What are their autism rates like? And why aren't we hearing reports of massive disease outbreaks because of the 13 vaccines they're NOT getting?

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#30 of 32 Old 04-01-2014, 05:55 AM
 
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Good point, Taxi. Why aren't we trying to learn from other nations that experience better health than the US? Why do most people who live in the US think the US is the best at everything? I live here, and I can assure you, this is NOT the healthiest country! People continue to make excuses for crazy US policies, instead of trying to learn from other countries who are doing much better. Where does the US rank in infant mortality and overall health? Pretty low, which means we are doing something WRONG here.

(too many vaccines, too many chemicals in our food and water that are outlawed in other countries)

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