A Parent's (BRILLIANT ) Response to The NY Times article, "Eliminate Vaccine Exemptions" - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-25-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is excellent:

http://www.livingwhole.org/a-parents-response-to-the-new-york-times-article-eliminate-vaccine-exemptions/

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Old 03-25-2014, 06:36 PM
 
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Wow, this is an incredible response.  She basically said everything I can never seem to say because I let anger cloud my thoughts when it comes to these arguments.


On a side note, I noticed on the comments a nurse saying she used to vax and regretted it.  That was not the first case I have heard of a health professional going against the grain.  My own mother is now against many vaccinations and is also against hospital birth for low-risk women and she is also an ex-nurse.  I feel like nurses have a front row seat to what is happening in the healthcare field and when one of them sees something that turns them off of certain things in medical care or vaccines, that speaks volumes for what is actually going on.  Same can be said for Dr.'s who don't encourage vaccines.  I guess it's because to me, when medical professionals say they are against vaccines, they have no reason to do so other than the fact that they know they're not effective or even dangerous.

 

This original article made my blood boil and I'm glad to see that not everyone is a sheep and agreeing with it.

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Old 03-25-2014, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, more and more health care professionals are seeing first-hand the damage vaccines can do, and are regretting their previous stances.


The question is, will we reach the tipping point before or after our right to turn down vaccines is completely and utterly stripped away?

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Old 03-25-2014, 07:10 PM
 
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Thank you so much for posting. I love when others can put their thoughts on paper in such a digestible way.
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:20 PM
 
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I certainly hope that day never comes.  As the writer of the reply stated, we have constitutional rights.  For now, they secure our right to turn down vax for ourselves and our children.  I think there would have to be a really big change in the structure of our government before the worst happened.  And I hope that the opposition knows how many people would create an uproar and I also hope that is what helps prevent them from attempting to take away those rights.  I honestly think that they know how much trouble would come from them trying to enforce vaccinations and taking away exemptions because there are quite a lot of people on our side by now.  And they also know that it would be virtually impossible because some people would do anything they had to to not be forced. 

 

It's sad enough that it has come this far and that there are two completely opposing sides.  I hope someday that it will be more widely recognized as a human right and no one will care or try to poke their noses into the business of others.

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Old 03-25-2014, 10:45 PM
 
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I'm not so sure it will take a major change in the structure of our government. . .look at Mississippi and how those parents have no rights regarding vaccination. They aren't in an uproar. That is just how it is there. If change happens slowly enough, people dont notice. (As the quote earlier suggested.) For example, my generation had chicken pox and I often here peers say they think the chicken pox vax seems silly, but they don't question MMR bc they grew up with the MMR vax. The next generation likely won't question the chickehn pox vax bc they grew up with it. Personally, I am very concerned about the erosion of our rights and think the pressure is going to build up quickly. Now is the time to start fighting back in earnest.

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Old 03-26-2014, 05:47 AM
 
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:32 AM
 
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Thank you for sharing! I shared it with my husband, who will probably share it with others.


May God bless you and His Blessed Mother Mary keep you!  :-)

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Old 03-26-2014, 07:55 AM
 
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I went in expecting to love it…but I    Bolt.gif didn't.

 

I found this particularly bothersome:

 

 

"I find this correlation (that the vaccine eradicated or reduced these illnesses) interesting especially because the first measles vaccine wasn’t even put on the market until 1963. So we have twenty years unaccounted for here and the actual data shows a stark decline in the prevalence of measles before the vaccine was introduced. Isn’t that convenient? The same is true for polio, small pox, diphtheria, pertussis, and typhoid. (Here’s a good read onthat). 

us-measles"

She talked about prevalence in her post and then used a graph that discussed mortality.  You have to compare prevalence to prevalence or mortality to mortality….

 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:44 AM
 
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Kathy this is the problem we have when arguing on this point, it muddies the waters to say the least. I like Viera Schreibner's articles on measles for a better understanding of the disease. She talks about the natural cycles of the disease and how it was heading towards and 18 year low before the introduction of the vaccine. In this article, she interestingly points out that between 1970 and Dec 1989, the Amish did not have one single case of measles in the community, I followed up on her source and it was correct, this was an 18 year period. She also mentions some research from 1933 on the cyclical nature of measles of 2 -3 years and 18 years (see that 18 year figure again!). I suspect that we are in an up trend right now, which is why we are seeing these outbreaks. Dr Schreibner hypothesizes that measles hasn't gone a way at all because of the vaccine and had we not had it, then the disease would have pretty much disappeared on its own.


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Old 03-26-2014, 08:59 AM
 
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Thanks, Mizram.  I will read that article.  Measles holds particular fascination for me.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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Old 03-26-2014, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
"

She talked about prevalence in her post and then used a graph that discussed mortality.  You have to compare prevalence to prevalence or mortality to mortality….

Also, it is near impossible to find read prevalence rates. (Unless you look at One subset group of people like the Amish)

The books now will say from the pre-vax era: 4 million cases a year going on by counting every single child born that year. (Just an example, not real numbers being used)

 

They didn't confirm each case with lab confirmation: which is what they began to require the Moment the vax came out for it. They also claim that if a child gets the MMR and then gets all the classic signs of Measles with rash included: it can not be measles and will not be counted towards the numbers as it is a vax reaction. (Funny how they like those when it suits their purpose)

This will wreak the numbers forever.


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Old 03-26-2014, 09:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssun5 View Post

 

it can not be measles and will not be counted towards the numbers as it is a vax reaction. (Funny how they like those when it suits their purpose)

hopmad.gif I truly hate the system disappointed.gif

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Old 03-26-2014, 09:11 AM
 
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The Welsh mealses outbreak ended up with less than a handful of lab confirmed cases.


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Old 03-26-2014, 09:43 AM
 
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Brilliant response!!

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Old 03-26-2014, 09:56 AM
 
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Loved it- shared on FB as well. Thanks for posting!

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Old 03-26-2014, 03:58 PM
 
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Songy, I very much agree with you that now is the time to be fighting back regarding these issues.  I guess I am still an optimist and hope that for the time being, there will always be a way "out" of it.  I honestly don't know much about the situation in Mississippi.  I do know that MS is one of the poorest states in the south (possibly the entire country, can't recall) and I would be surprised if that didn't have something to do with it.  People of lower class are much easier to control in the government's eyes.  It's sickening.

 

I guess that it is my hope that at this point in time there are enough of us to provide a steady resistance.  That's why my stance on this isn't so passive like it used to be...I'm less afraid to tell people I'm non-vax and exactly why.  People need to understand it's a choice, not an obligation.

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Old 03-28-2014, 08:12 PM
 
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Thanks everyone for checking out my post! Kathy Muggle, I edited my post to reflect that very issue so maybe you read it before it was updated. I also posted the links to the decrease in prevalence graphs in the comments and below! :) 

 

Decline of Pertussis (Whole-cell pertussis vaccine licensed in 1949):
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5104a1.htm#fig1

Decline of Polio before Salk’s and Sabin’s Vaccine:
See Incidence of poliomyelitis in the USA from CDC, 1972
Salk’s Vaccine 1955

Decline of Hepatitis (Viral. Incidence, by year – United States, 1975-2005):
Hep A implemented in 1995 and Hep B in 1991
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm5453.pdf

Decline in Mumps (Incidence by year – United States, 1980-2005):
Page 63 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm5453.PDF
Licensed in 1967

Rubella (Note the very low incidence overall):
Page 63 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm5453.PDF
Licensed in 1969

Decline in Measles:
http://www.healthsentinel.com “United States Measles Mortality and Disease Rates” based off of vital statistics
Licensed in 1963

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Old 03-28-2014, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Welcome aboard, heimerm!  Thank you for a GREAT article, and we're so glad you can join us here!

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Old 03-28-2014, 11:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssun5 View Post
 

Also, it is near impossible to find read prevalence rates. (Unless you look at One subset group of people like the Amish)

 

 

If it is so tough to find prevalence rates, then how can provaxxers claim the vaccine was responsible for the decline? Do they have access to a special graph that we do not? Is there a reliable source to find the prevalence rates? If not, then people cannot really claim the vaccine reduced the rates.

 

Quote:
They didn't confirm each case with lab confirmation: which is what they began to require the Moment the vax came out for it.  

Sort of like the way they changed the diagnostic criteria for polio when the vaccine was introduced? How can this be scientific in any way? Crooked science, that's what. Since we are not mesmerized by the system, we naturally question these things. 


 
 
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:42 AM
 
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What else changed in the US throughout the 1950's-60's? Wonder bread was providing many people with much needed vitamins and nutrients!

Quote:
 In the 1950s, Wonder Bread further expanded advertising of its nutrient enrichments. The company sponsored Howdy Doody with host Buffalo Bob Smith telling the audience, "Wonder Bread builds strong bodies 8 ways. Look for the red, yellow and blue balloons printed on the wrapper." By the 1960s, Wonder Bread was advertised with the slogan "Helps build strong bodies 12
ways," referring to the number of added nutrients.
Quote:
 Known as the “Quiet Miracle”, this development [wonder bread] is credited with greatly reducing the incidence of the diseases beriberi and pellagra.

 

Who knows? Just like there are graphs that jokingly show the relation between organic food purchases and autism, maybe there is a relation to better health, reduction of diseases, and the introduction of better nutrition from sources like wonder bread!!

To say vaccines caused the decline is a case of "correlation does not equal causation". Maybe our country experienced better nutrition after the war, which resulted in healthier people, better able to fight off disease. Look at the rate of disease in third world countries that still have high vaccination rates. It is clear nutrition is more important than vaccines! (In regards to polio, it is my belief that we are dealing with more of a toxicity problem, rather than a viral illness and nutritional problem.)

 

I think there should be more investigation into the role of nutrition and the rate of diseases.


 
 
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:57 AM
 
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Becky Bird, what I've noticed is that many people fail to plug in the year of vaccine licensure on their charts. If you do that then you will see WHEN the decline occurred. I have yet to see a chart where disease prevalence or mortality declined before the vaccine. There are a lot of bad graphs out there for sure! I try to use the CDC or the ones from healthsentinal.com because if I don't, they will automatically be deemed non-credible by those with opposing views. 

Taximom5 - Thank you! You are quite the activist. 

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Old 03-29-2014, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Becky Bird, what I've noticed is that many people fail to plug in the year of vaccine licensure on their charts. If you do that then you will see WHEN the decline occurred. I have yet to see a chart where disease prevalence or mortality declined before the vaccine. There are a lot of bad graphs out there for sure! I try to use the CDC or the ones from healthsentinal.com because if I don't, they will automatically be deemed non-credible by those with opposing views. 
 

 

??????????

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by heimerm View Post
 

Taximom5 - Thank you! You are quite the activist. 

 

Um...I never meant to be.  But somehow, here I am.

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Old 04-02-2014, 07:43 PM
 
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I came across this tonight:

 


Cases of Measles and Pertussis, not mortality rates. Supposedly these are from the CDC, but I haven't checked yet.

On first glance, this looks like the decline occurred after the vaccine. I wonder if there were any changes in diagnostic criteria after the vaccine was introduced? I don't know. It seems that in recent history, cases of pertussis and measles are under diagnosed. Were they over diagnosed in the past, without lab confirmation? I can imagine a scenario where these illnesses were over diagnosed, and after the vaccines were introduced, maybe they needed to be lab-confirmed?

 

We know many people claim to have the flu, but if they are tested, it is often not the flu--usually a "flu-like illness". Maybe croup and other hoarse coughs were lumped in with all those yearly pertussis cases back then. Now, pertussis is often lab confirmed.  Maybe many different rashes were labeled as measles. Once the vaccine was introduced, maybe the rules changed. Remember all those cases in England recently? Very few turned out to be actual, confirmed cases. These days, many people think it is rare to become ill with a  VPD if they're vaccinated for it. Doctors usually rule out the possibility, which leads to the appearance of fewer cases. An example would be the poor babies who died of pertussis, because the hospital did not diagnose in time.

 

Vaccine introduced=less recognized or acknowledged cases. Unless they are trying to sell a vaccine, and then they inflate the number of cases--FLU for example. If they are trying to blame the non-vaccinating crowd, they will also inflate the numbers--Measles in England, for example. We soon learn the numbers are wrong, but by then, people have already moved on to a new shiny story. Like a baby with a mobile over his crib, lol.

 

What I'm trying to say is there are more questions to be answered. It is not as simple as "Vaccine introduced=disease goes away". It may be more complicated than that.

One more rant......why do the provax believe that, "Vaccine introduced=disease goes away for no other reason" but they do NOT believe "Vaccine given=kid gets autism/other illness immediately after"?


 
 
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:26 AM
 
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I only have time to comment on the Measles portion.

 

Before the introduction of the Vax: the Illness would be diagnosed with:

1. Generalized rash lasting around 3 days

2.Temp at or above 101 and

3.Cough, coryza or conjunctivitis

 

Serologic verification and contact with another verified case was not necessary before the vaccination era, even though there are at least 10 other infections that clinically resemble measles.

 

What it takes to have a diagnosis now which are very stringent: (not including those who are vaxed)

1. Laboratory confirmation by any of the following:

         *Positive serologic test for measles immunoglobulin M antibody;

         *Signigicant rise in measles antibody level by any standard serologic assay;

        *Isolation of measles virus from a clinical specimen;

         *Dectection of measles-virus specific nucleic acid by polymerase chain reaction

         * NOTE: A lab confirmined case does not have to have any sign of a rash

 

(you can find all the above from the CDC website)

 

HOWEVER.... the biggest bunch of nonsense is the rules that accompany those who have been vaxed.Here is what the CDC has to say:

 

*Vaccine-induced "measles" is a modified form of measles occurring 5-12 days after measles vaccination. It is not transmissible and should NOT be classified as measles.

*Serologically-diagnosed cases who received a measles-containing vaccine 8 days to 8 weeks before testing may be classified as confirmed measles ONLY if they are also epidemiologically linked to a confirmed case.

 

I just love that slight of hand. The CDC Still admits that 5-10 percent of vaccinee's develop a rash and fever (another words all the signs of actually having measles) However, no,no.... they will never be counted as they have to be around a "wild case" somewhere out there and get their doctors to even perform a laboratory confirmation. Most are just told it is a normal reaction.

 

SO to be FAIR: If we were to count the known cases of measles from vax reaction alone still occuring under the old rules to see what kind of measles rate we still have without all the smoke and mirrors of different criteria. We would have 650,000-1,300,000 cases a year.  *In the US alone by going by the 13-14 million doses of it given out each year into 1 year olds*

 

Therefore: the cases of measles has actually INCREASED since the release of the vax. And who told us those kids can't spread it???? I will leave that for another thread.


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Old 04-04-2014, 10:26 AM
 
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Thank you ssun5. This is Exactly what I was trying to figure out!


 
 
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