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Old 04-01-2014, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Is there a good book or website that lists all the vaccines we don't give our children but if they were to be exposed ,what natural remedies can be used to ingest and what topicals work . I worry sometimes like I know if my son were to get measles than vitamin D and A are good and probably bentonite clay topically?
But what about mumps
Chicken pox
I am just wanting to prepare.
Thanks all
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone?
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:07 PM
 
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Bumping for you.

 

I don't think I have read this one but I like Aviva Romm and it looks like it might cover the topics you are looking for...

http://www.amazon.com/Naturally-Healthy-Babies-Children-Commonsense/dp/1587611929

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Old 04-01-2014, 06:46 PM
 
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Pertussis treatment with Vit C http://vaccinationcouncil.org/media/The-Vitamin-C-Treatment-of-Whooping-Cough.pdf

 

Chicken Pox....well having had it as a kid, oatmeal baths come to mind for the itching.  My DD is unfortunately allergic to oats so we will have to skip that, but I do a lot of essential oils and I'm sure there are good blends for that.  I also use the pertussis Vit C regimen for pretty much any ailment bc extra Vit C is always good to help the immune system along with D.

 

This book was recommended to me in a previous thread for general info on how to recognize and treat the most common VAD's: How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor by Dr Robert Mendelsohn.  It's on my wish list of things to get or ask DH for!

 

Somewhere there's a link floating around here for Vit A and Measles, I keep forgetting to save it.

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Old 04-01-2014, 07:41 PM
 
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Years ago there were posts or threads here dedicated to this kind of information with lots of links to medical studies,  articles, and journals.

What happened to them?

 

I say check the archives. 

The OP's question is very responsible.

Knowing how to recognize a childhood disease would be a leg up on most pediatric practices in this nation.


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Old 04-01-2014, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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@fruitfulmomma checking it out now.
@sassyfirechick I will look on amazon to see if I can find a copy of that book. And we do keep quite a bit of powdered C on hand .smile.gif
@applejuice glad I'm being responsible.. Lol I'm just trying to feel like I will know what to do as we live in a tiny coastal town and the doctors here are all about vaccines. At my first appointment with our doctor( we have one for the three of us) she said" I am all about vexing but I won't make you" and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

Thanks mamas
You have all given me something to start with in my research !!!!
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:08 PM
 
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Measles/English Measles/Rubeola/morbilli - is a very contagious disease. It can be contracted by touching an object that an infected person has touched. The disease is contagious for 7-8 days, 4 days before the rash appears.

 

Symptoms - tiredness, runny nose, slight fever, head, neck, and back pains, photophobia or sensitivity to light, the eyes turn red, white spots can be seen inside the mouth - Koplik's Spots - and a rash begins at the hairline, behind the ears, and then moves down covering the body within a day and a half. The rash will clear in 3-4 days.  The fever will continue to rise to about 103 F until for 3-4 days.

 

Treatment - Give the child plenty of fluids, plenty of vitamin A,  and keep them in a dark quiet room. If the rash is uncomfortable, give the child an oatmeal bath, calamine lotion or corn starch. Measles eats up the vitamin A in the system, so make sure the child gets plenty of vitamin A.  Klaire Labs has an excellent vitamin A supplement muscillized, and it was recommended to me.  I would not give aspirin to a child with a viral infection nor would I give a child tylenol. The fever serves a purpose; just watch your child, give plenty of fluids, and keep the child comfortable.

 

Dr Robert S Mendelsohn's book, How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor has an entire chapter devoted to the harmless  diseases that children used to get routinely and recovered from with lifetime immunity.  He questioned the 1/1000 measles encephalitis and stated that this was more like 1/10000 or 1/100000, although I would not want to be one of those or be the mom of one of them, but he stated that in otherwise healthy children, as I stated in other posts, measles is NOT a dangerous disease in otherwise healthy children.

IF you are at all concerned about your child, go to the doctor, urgent care, or ER and ask to use the back door so you do not infect anyone in the waiting room.

All information from CDC, Dr. Mendelsohn
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdfQuote:

For centuries the measles virus has maintained a remarkably stable ecological relationship with man. The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare.

 

 


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Old 04-01-2014, 11:08 PM
 
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Mumps - a viral disease spread by coughing, sneezing, sharing drinks, or other spreading of the salivary droplets or wherever the mumps virus may be. The incubation period can be anywhere from 14-26 days.  a person is contagious for 6 days before the symptoms begin and then for 9 days after.  There is evidence that having the mumps as a young girl can prevent ovarian cancer later in life.

 

Symptoms - Fever and headache are the first symptoms. Pain and swelling of the salivary glands, the parotid gland, and maybe a rash. Malaise, lack of appetite, dry mouth, sore neck, face, ears, more rarely in serious cases,  loss of voice can occur. Apparently 20% of all persons infected with the mumps virus never get symptoms, so it is possible to have mumps, and spread the virus w/o knowing it. 

Complications: As for mumps causing sterility in men, that is why it is a good idea for children to have this disease when they are young and not get it when the vaccine wears off. If a man does get the mumps and is unfortunate enough to get the rare complication of orchitis, it involves one testicle, and does not always cause sterility; if it does, the other testicle can take over the job.  Women can get oophritis, another rare complication of adult mumps which is a inflammation of one ovary.
More complications:  Pancreatitis in about 4% of cases, manifesting as abdominal pain and vomiting; encephalitis (very rare, and fatal in about 1% of the cases when it occurs) Profound but rare senorineural hearing loss, uni- or bilateral. Acute bilateral illness occurs in 0.005% of cases. 

 

Treatment - Mumps is self-limiting, with no special treatment other than to keep the child quiet, comfortable, and hydrated. Never give a child with a viral infection aspirin as it will lead to Reyes Syndrome.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reye%27s_syndrome  Dr. Mendelsohn in his book recommends a few drops of whiskey to kill the pain. This recommendation scares some people.  Use your judgement.


I had mumps, measles, etc. I never took aspirin as a child. 

If you are at all concerned about your child, go to the doctor, urgent care, ER and ask to use the back door.

All information is gleaned from Dr. Mendelsohn and the CDC.


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Old 04-01-2014, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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@applejuice you are awesome for doing this. I hope other are benefiting from this thread too.
I got mumps as a child and I survived fine. My face hurt I remember. I got chicken pox too and I itched like crazy. I never got the measles though. I live in Oregon where whooping cough is very prevalent.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:15 PM
 
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I had all of these diseases and so did my younger sibs over the years so  I saw it many times.

 

My youngest child had a very mild case of measles at age eight months and is an adult now and just fine. He was therefore too young for the vaccine.  My niece also had the measles.


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Old 04-02-2014, 12:26 AM
 
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Chicken Pox - a viral infection. It is spread by airborne droplets from coughing or sneezing or by direction tactile contact with the ooze from the rash. A child will be contagious 3-4 days before the rash appears and they stay contagious for about six days after - when the lesions from the rash have stopped oozing and are crusted over; the healing lesions are not contagious.

Symptoms - 10-21 days after exposure, the signs in in children, are the famous rash which begins as small red dots or bumps on the face, scalp, torso, in the mouth, then limbs with a general feeling of malaise and a low grade fever; over a period of 10-13 days, the small red dots change to small bumps, blistering and becoming pustules, then they ooze, dry, and form scabs and heal.  Offer calamine lotion, oatmeal soap, or other appropriate salve to help the child be comfortable from the itchness.

 

Treatment - do NOT give aspirin to a child with a viral infection. Keep the sick person resting, comfortable, and hydrated. The disease is usually mild for children, rarely fatal. Adult men, non-immune pregnant women and people with a suppressed immune system are at risk for the serious complications. 

 

Complications - a common late complication of chickenpox is shingles, caused by the same virus.  It is believed that the herpes zoster virus needs reactivation against the varicella virus of the immune system to keep shingles at bay.
 

 

If you are at all concerned about your child for any reason, go to the doctor, urgent care, ER and ask to use the back door so you do not infect anyone in the waiting room.

 

All information is gleaned from Dr. Mendelsohn and the CDC.


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Old 04-02-2014, 12:48 AM
 
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Pertussis/Whooping Cough - is caused by the pertussis bordetella bacterium.  In dogs, this is kennel cough. Incubation period is 7-14, but it can be 4-42 days days.  The disease is also known as the 100 day cough. This disease can strike any one at any time, but half of all cases are in children who are less than two years old. A definitive diagnosis is made with a throat swab and an analysis done in a lab. RSV, respiratory syncytial virus, begins the same way and requires lab confirmation.  Despite the vaccine, pertussis still strikes cyclically every 3-5 years in population pockets around the world.

 

Symptoms - first, the disease begins similar to the common cold.  Then after a week to ten days, the dreaded cough takes over.  Coughing at night and later all day, is proximal. A child may cough 10-12 times with each breath, the face becoming pink, red, and the lips blue. Each coughing bout ends w/ the familiar whoop as the child tries to catch his/her breath.

 

Treatment - to bowel tolerance, sodium ascorbate and antibiotics. It is a good idea to give your child vitamin C/sodium ascorbate at the first sign of any cold - think, if the cold develops into real pertussis, that child will have trouble eating or swallowing anything once the coughing begins. The sodium ascorbate will less the coughing once it begins and will shorted the duration of the cough. Sometimes cough suppressants are given, but they rarely help.

If you give your child antibiotics, make sure you heal the gut with yogurt and/or probiotics.

 

Complications - cracked ribs, vomiting, dehydration, hernias, lethargy between coughing bouts, broken capillaries, fainting, urinary incontinence, and pneumonia from ruptured pleura.
 

If you are at all concerned about your child for any reason, go to the doctor, urgent care, ER and ask to use the back door so you do not infect anyone in the waiting room.

 

All information is gleaned from Dr. Mendelsohn and the CDC.


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Old 04-02-2014, 01:16 AM
 
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Diphtheria - a highly contagious bacterial disease spread by the airborne droplets from the coughing, sneezing, of an afflicted person. Incubation period is two - five days.  Diphtheria is a disease that is seen in persons who live in terrible conditions, without fresh air, ventilation. The death rate is 5-10%.

 

Symptoms - first, sore  throat, headache, nausea, coughing, and a fever of 101-104 F. Soon off-white to gray patches appear in the throat and on the tonsils, they swell and can block the airway and make eating or drinking very difficult. The toxin that causes the disease can break down, go into the blood stream causing blood po

 

Treatment - antibiotics and giving the patient the D part of the DaPT shot. DO not give dairy products as these cause mucous and can further complicate this disease; warm milk was the treatment of choice in some areas which leads me to believe that this disease may have been made worse by the treatment that was given to the victims.  Hospitalization may be required.

 

Avoid grain products as bread, pasta, and cakes.

 

If you think your child has diphtheria, get medical attention asap.  Then buy a lottery ticket, JK. About 53 persons got this disease from 1980-2000, and only 2 in 2003 persons got this disease, and those persons had many other health problems besides diphtheria.  Diphtheria can also cause paralysis in the eye, neck, throat, or respiratory muscles. The toxin can spread to affect other body organs as the heart and kidneys;  the ability of the heart to pump or the ability of the kidneys to clear waste can be damaged. Diphtheria can cause nerve damage, which in turn, can cause paralysis.
 

If you are at all concerned about your child for any reason, go to the doctor, urgent care, ER and ask to use the back door so you do not infect anyone in the waiting room.

 

All information is gleaned from Dr. Mendelsohn and the CDC.


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Old 04-02-2014, 02:18 AM
 
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Are you curious about other diseases and treatments?


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:26 AM
 
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Awesome info applejuice!
I also like Aviva Jill Romm's book on vaccinations. It gives a good description of symptoms (like you did in your posts), as well as easy to understand info on how to use herbs to support immune response and signs to look for to identify when to seek emergency help.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:04 AM
 
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Diphtheria is one of those crazy ones that is so rare you can't even get the antitoxin without your physician first either confirming a positive culture or absolutely linking contact with another lab confirmed case and THEN consulting with the CDC whether or not they agree to arrange for the antitoxin to be sent in because it's not even licensed by the FDA.  It's one I'd be worried about if it were prevalent, BUT, at that point we'd have a guaranteed supply of antitoxin for treatment and it would be a game changer.  Therefore even though it's a nasty one, it's not on my radar because of the incredibly low prevalence.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/diphtheria/dat.html

Quote:
 A patient's eligibility for treatment with DAT is determined by the treating physician in consultation with a CDC diphtheria duty officer. However, the treating physician makes the final decision on its use and may decide against administering DAT after it is released.

 

I did start pinning some things for myself on Pinterest (so that I have it handy!) on using essential oils to treat things like RSV, Hand foot and mouth, fifths, and other such nasties that I know quite a few kids who've gotten some or all of the above but we've yet to have to deal with them - just wanted to be prepared! 

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Old 04-02-2014, 10:19 AM
 
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I have a shelf full of vaccine-related books. Only two have sections that discuss how these diseases first present, then progress, and what treatment is appropriate for each. This is valuable and responsible information that everyone, including and especially doctors should know.

 

My own personal opinion based on my own personal experience is that these diseases are still around, but doctors do not recognize them AND do not report them if they do recognize them. Who wants to fill out all that paperwork? That costs too much money and may attract the wrong kind of attention.


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Old 04-02-2014, 10:48 AM
 
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My own personal opinion based on my own personal experience is that these diseases are still around, but doctors do not recognize them 

I had this experience with Rubella in my middle child.  I happened to know the symptom progression so I called in to report that I suspected she had it.  I was told there are tons of viral rashes out there and she couldn't have rubella.  The symptoms progressed according to a classic case and I called a 2nd time.  On the 3rd call I stated that my child had not received the MMR vaccine and they had me in to the DR's office within 2 hours.  By then the rash was gone, but I had taken pictures and the DR said it was definitely rubella.  We drew titres later and it showed she had a decent immunity.  

 

It was such a mild illness that we could have easily gone through it without calling the doc.  I only called so it would go on her chart, and I felt it was good to report such a disease.  (I also kept her quarantined at home to keep her away from pregnant women)

 

I later found out that our neighbor's daughter (same age as mine) had been vaccinated with MMR and she also came down with Rubella around the same time.  Luckily they had a Dr's office who had them come in and get a proper diagnosis right away.

 

I am grateful for our modern medicine and I am hearing about some great medical training that is happening these days.  But I fear that we are losing very important differential diagnostic knowledge as our older docs retire and newer training programs rely on the assumption that vaccines work, therefore do not offer proper training for recognizing and treating vaccine available diseases.

 

(ok, rant over)

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:20 AM
 
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I had this experience with Rubella in my middle child.  I happened to know the symptom progression so I called in to report that I suspected she had it.  I was told there are tons of viral rashes out there and she couldn't have rubella.  The symptoms progressed according to a classic case and I called a 2nd time.  On the 3rd call I stated that my child had not received the MMR vaccine and they had me in to the DR's office within 2 hours.  By then the rash was gone, but I had taken pictures and the DR said it was definitely rubella.  We drew titres later and it showed she had a decent immunity.  

 

It was such a mild illness that we could have easily gone through it without calling the doc.  I only called so it would go on her chart, and I felt it was good to report such a disease.  (I also kept her quarantined at home to keep her away from pregnant women)

 

I later found out that our neighbor's daughter (same age as mine) had been vaccinated with MMR and she also came down with Rubella around the same time.  Luckily they had a Dr's office who had them come in and get a proper diagnosis right away.

 

I am grateful for our modern medicine and I am hearing about some great medical training that is happening these days.  But I fear that we are losing very important differential diagnostic knowledge as our older docs retire and newer training programs rely on the assumption that vaccines work, therefore do not offer proper training for recognizing and treating vaccine available diseases.

 

(ok, rant over)


Similar thing happened to us when mine had an allergic reaction to oats - textbook progressive hives, redness and swelling following a food, oats, which she's reacted to a similar way once before and had been kept away from.  I explained the episode, in detail, to the on duty 24hr nurse over the phone looking for a Benadryl dosage for a 10mo child to halt the reaction....."it's a non-specific viral infection that will pass on it's own" I was told...shake.gif  I was livid at the audacity of that nurse to completely dismiss what could have been a life threatening issue (for which we would have absolutely gone to the ER) but thankful I have enough of a brain to know my child, to know her issues and to have a basic knowledge of homeopathy - gave her several doses of rescue remedy and in 2 hours that reaction was completely gone.  The disregard they sometimes have for parental knowledge of anything medical is just disgusting.

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Old 04-02-2014, 02:17 PM
 
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I suspect many of the reported complications involved with the childhood diseases are from injudicious use of OTCs as aspirin, acetaminophen, cough syrup, cough suppressants, mucous reducers, laxatives, and so on that may interfere with the progression of the disease in an otherwise healthy child.


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Old 04-02-2014, 04:22 PM
 
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I suspect many of the reported complications involved with the childhood diseases are from injudicious use of OTCs as aspirin

 

Back  when they had the pertussis deaths in California (can't remember the year???) there was an article on WebMd, and of course I could never find it again, but they were talking about the possibility that these newborns had been treated by their parents with aspirin and that it was possible it lead to increased complications.

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Old 04-02-2014, 05:05 PM
 
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This is a great thread. Thanks!

Midwife mama bellycast.gif to DD1 bouncy.gif (4.5) and DD2 h20homebirth.gif (1.5)
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
I suspect many of the reported complications involved with the childhood diseases are from injudicious use of OTCs as aspirin

 

Back  when they had the pertussis deaths in California (can't remember the year???) there was an article on WebMd, and of course I could never find it again, but they were talking about the possibility that these newborns had been treated by their parents with aspirin and that it was possible it lead to increased complications.

... yes, if that was 2009-2010, nine of the ten babies who died were MIS-DIAGNOSED by the ER doctors so any useful treatment for pertussis was delayed and ultimately denied. Those babies were NOT vaccinated because they  were too young for the vaccine; they lived in heavily vaccinated communities, so everyone was vaccinated. Doctors always assume that the vaccines work, that everyone is vaccinated, and the doctors think that they do not have to do much detective work in hunting down the disease.

 

If these babies were given treatments with aspirin, was that because the doctors in the ER recommended aspirin? If so, the article on WebMd was blaming the parents, not the doctors, for the deaths of the babies. The blame should lie squarely on the doctors and the hospitals - the parents trusted the doctors, and the doctors failed the parents. The doctors are the trained, educated professionals who are supposed to know.


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Old 04-02-2014, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you curious about other diseases and treatments?
Sure!
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just wanted to say thank you and I am still checking things out and ordering a book or two. I think this thread will be a great resource for many in clouding myself.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:19 PM
 
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I have really appreciated this thread! I ordered the naturally healthy babies and children book.. I hope it's a good one! I wish I had it now because my daughter just got sick with a fever, cough, and sore throat and I wish I knew a little bit more about how to help her naturally...
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:51 PM
 
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Hi Ballerina85. Sorry your daughter is sick! If you don't mind, I would like to make a few suggestions.

 

First, please don't let her eat or drink anything with processed sugar while she is sick. Get her to rest as much as possible. Look for a place that sells Sodium Ascorbate, a form of Vitamin C. I believe Whole Foods and other health stores should carry this. Even better, use a quality multivitamin. Do you have a juicer? You could make some juice from organic carrots, oranges, apples, etc. (Organic carrots are almost as cheap as non organic.) Make soup--onions, celery, carrots, garlic, etc. Add chicken if you eat meat. Let her sip the broth. During an illness, it is easier on the body to drink rather than eat...eating requires full digestion, which is difficult since the body is trying to fight the cold. 

If you can find a good probiotic, use it. In addition, I love Apple Cider Vinegar, or ACV for short. Make sure it is organic, raw ACV, which you can find at health stores and upscale grocery stores. ACV is a prebiotic, which is food for the good bacteria in the gut. You could sneak a few drops in her juice and soup.

 

If you could only get a few items tomorrow, I would definitely get the vinegar and the soup and juice ingredients. I swear by the vinegar, have used it successfully, and always recommend it to others. Even if they mock me, I'll still talk about it :wink 


 
 
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This might be a dumb question but why not just vitamin C? You suggested sodium ascorbate. Thanks
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:01 PM
 
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From the CDC.  http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#Diseaseshadalready

 

and a responsa. http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/vaccines-saved-us-intellectual-dishonesty-at-its-most-naked/

 

Always remember when you look at these charts the difference between

 

mortality - death rates

morbidity - incidence rates of disease.


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Old 04-11-2014, 06:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Hi Ballerina85. Sorry your daughter is sick! If you don't mind, I would like to make a few suggestions.

First, please don't let her eat or drink anything with processed sugar while she is sick. Get her to rest as much as possible. Look for a place that sells Sodium Ascorbate, a form of Vitamin C. I believe Whole Foods and other health stores should carry this. Even better, use a quality multivitamin. Do you have a juicer? You could make some juice from organic carrots, oranges, apples, etc. (Organic carrots are almost as cheap as non organic.) Make soup--onions, celery, carrots, garlic, etc. Add chicken if you eat meat. Let her sip the broth. During an illness, it is easier on the body to drink rather than eat...eating requires full digestion, which is difficult since the body is trying to fight the cold. 
If you can find a good probiotic, use it. In addition, I love Apple Cider Vinegar, or ACV for short. Make sure it is organic, raw ACV, which you can find at health stores and upscale grocery stores. ACV is a prebiotic, which is food for the good bacteria in the gut. You could sneak a few drops in her juice and soup.

If you could only get a few items tomorrow, I would definitely get the vinegar and the soup and juice ingredients. I swear by the vinegar, have used it successfully, and always recommend it to others. Even if they mock me, I'll still talk about it winky.gif  
Thanks
So much Beckybird! I will definitely give her the apple cider vinegar tomorrow I didn't know it would help a cold. She's miserable and still has a fever it's not too high but she is just so unhappy.. I made her homemade chicken soup today and she pretty much refused it.. It's usually her favorite greensad.gif She gets juice every morning (homemade from veggies and fruit and we also put in a probiotic).. Since she was refusing to eat I tried offering her favorite food- Ice cream. It's probably not the greatest to give her sugar and dairy though (even though she was offered it and it's a rare treat she only ate a tiny bit before pushing it away- so sad!). I did try to find sodium ascorbate but can't find it anywhere! I called so Many health food stores and nobody seemed to have it.. That was pretty frustrating because I had a assumed it would be easy to find. Anyway I ordered some online so I have it but it won't be here in time to help for this round.. thanks again for the info it was helpful and good point to focus on fluids rather then food.. And sorry that this was kind of off topic but even though we have chosen not to vaccinate and are happy with the decision whenever my daughter gets sick I start second guessing myself about it.. Hopefully as I learn more about treating sickness I'll feel more confident.
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