booster shots - convince me not to get them. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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my son (almost 4) and daughter (8 months) have been fully vax'd until now. they have appts on May 15th where my son is sched to have 2 booster shots each containing two different immunizations (Dtap and polio together, and MMR and varicella together).

 

My daughter is scheduled for the last Hep B and polio.

 

The nurse also told me she will get the Hep A and Prevnar at her 12 month visit.

 

It really bothers me that the varicella and Hep A shots are so new. I think I found 1995 for varicella and 1999 for Hep A. How could they know the long term effects of these shots yet?

 

I wish I would've don't my homework before having them immunized at all, but at this point I just wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of studies showing why/ why not we need "booster" shots. I mean, he had them all already so why does he need "boosters" already?

 

Also, why do they vaccinate against chickenpox when we all had it as children and survived it?

 

I'm going to do some more research about all of them before I allow my daughter or son to get any more, but I figured you ladies would know where to find good info. I'm very skeptical of the medical community in general (2 homebirths, I NEVER go to the dr myself), but for some reason taking the leap into non vaxing has me nervous.

 

Our family dr is VERY pushy about vaxing. we will need to find a new one if we decide to delay/ skip some/ non vax.

 

Thank you for any info!!!

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#2 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 06:30 AM
 
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I'll come back when I'm not on my phone, but for now I wanted to give you a couple websites you might find helpful. smile.gif

NVIC.org and SmartVax.com are both great places to start reading. You can also look at things like the CDC's website but the articles and commentary are inherent biased so keep to the pure data (statistics) if you do that. Personally, I find that reading a little dry and hate having to wade through the BS so NVIC and SmartVax are nice because they take all that data and share information about the illness and the vaccine side by side so it's easier to make a risk evaluation. I find them to be as neutral in their information presentation as possible, and they cite official sources.

I'm sorry your doctor is pushy about it. That's very frustrating. One of those sites I shared also has a find a doctor tool with a database of doctors who are friendly to non-vax and delayed/selective vax families. I'm not sure how extensive it is (I didn't use it) but I've heard positive things about it. smile.gif

Good for you for seeking out more information! No matter what your plans ultimately look like, being more informed is always a good thing!

And I thought the chicken pox vaccine was silly even before I started research. wink1.gif

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#3 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 06:45 AM
 
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If your son had his first MMR at 12 months, you can request that a titer (blood test) be done to determine whether he already has immunity.  If he does, he does not need the booster.

 

You can request that only one vaccine be given, or none, while you research.  It's your child's body, health, and life at stake, and if they have a bad reaction, you cannot sue the vaccine manufacturer OR the doctor.

 

If your child has a reaction to multiple vaccines given at once, you have no way of knowing which vaccine they reacted to, or whether it was the combination.

 

If you are not comfortable with the doctor--and I wouldn't be either, with a doctor (who cannot be sued for this!) who aggressively pushed an invasive medical procedure that is known to cause rare severe side effects, including death-- then, yes, you should absolutely look for a new doctor.  Look now, before the May 15 appointment.

 

I wouldn't want someone like that as my children's doctor.

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#4 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 06:53 AM
 
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If you're comfortable doing so, you can also ask in the regional forums here if anyone had a recommendation for a doctor who would be more friendly to alternative vaccination plans.

Happy mama to our sweet pea innocent.gif (08/25/13), loving wife to my brilliant gentleman geek.gif (09/10/11) and lucky stepmama to five grouphug.gif

 

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#5 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 07:54 AM
 
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Well, I am not going to try and convince you.  I will give you my thoughts from a vaccine-critic POV, and you can take it from there.

 

I will say that if you are having second thoughts, you should delay.  You can always vaccinate later, you cannot undo a vaccine.  None of the vaccines you mention need to be "timely" decisions - pertussis and rota for young infants are, but that is not what you are struggling with.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashersmommy514 View Post
 

my son (almost 4) and daughter (8 months) have been fully vax'd until now. they have appts on May 15th where my son is sched to have 2 booster shots each containing two different immunizations (Dtap and polio together, and MMR and varicella together).

 

MMRV is associated with higher seizure rates, pere CDC than MMR and varicella separately.  

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/mmrv/studyfeature.html

 

"For MMRV combination vaccine, there was 1 additional febrile seizure for every 2,300 doses given, compared to separate MMR plus varicella vaccines in the 7 to 10 days following vaccination.

Of the children identified as having seizures following the 7 to 10-day vaccination period, about 90% were found to be febrile seizures.

The rate of seizures in this timeframe was 85 per 1000 person-years in the MMRV vaccine group compared to 42 per 1000 in the MMR and varicella vaccine group. This risk was about 2 times higher in children who received the combination shot (MMRV) versus the single shots (MMR and varicella)."

 

 

My daughter is scheduled for the last Hep B and polio.

 

Hep. b is a blood borne disease.  I think a good case for certain groups to get the Hep. b vaccine can be made; children are not among them.

 

Look at the incident rate for Hep. B (in children).  It is a bit old, but if anything, rates have gone down with hep. B.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5343a4.htm

 

"During 1990--2002, a total of 13,829 cases of acute hepatitis B were reported in the United States among persons aged <19 years. The incidence of reported cases declined steadily during this period, from 3.03 per 100,000 population in 1990 to 0.34 in 2002, representing a decline of 89%. The incidence among adolescents aged 15--19 years was consistently higher than the incidence among younger age groups (Figure 1), Among children and adolescents aged <19 years in 1990, incidence per 100,000 population was highest among Asian/Pacific Islanders (A/PIs) (6.74) and blacks (4.29); whites had the lowest race-specific incidence…"

 

more later - children call!


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#6 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashersmommy514 View Post
 

Also, why do they vaccinate against chickenpox when we all had it as children and survived it?

 

Chickenpox has a fatality rate of 1/40 000 overall, and 1/100 000 for healthy children.

 

I think they give it to prevent those few fatalities and in an attempt to prevent shingles.

 

Shingles only happens in those who have had chicken pox.  There is a shingles vaccine, but in my neck of the woods, you can only get it after 55 and it is only 50% effective.

 

If you get chicken pox you can get shingles.  If you get the chicken pox vaccine, you can still get shingles, but your risk may be less (by how much is unclear).  If you do not get chicken pox or the vaccine, you cannot get shingles.  If you decide to vaccinate or if your children get chicken pox, you should ensure that anytime after that that you hear of chicken pox, you arrange a visit with the poxy person.  Exposure to chicken pox post chicken pox gives your immune system a boost that is thought to help prevent shingles.  

 

Many selective/delayers delay considering the chicken pox vaccine until their child is a teen.  

 

 

Our family dr is VERY pushy about vaxing. we will need to find a new one if we decide to delay/ skip some/ non vax.

 

Well, just be brave and tell him you are researching your options and will not be vaccinating  until you feel certain.  It is an important decision and you will not be rushed.  Bring your partner if you can for back-up.  A doctor who cannot hear the word "no" without throwing a hissy fit is not worth having in my opinion.  

 

 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#7 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 10:47 AM
 
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Well, believe it or not, the MMR isn't even a "booster." 95-98% of children get full immunity from the first shot. The second MMR is meant to catch the 2-5% of kids who didn't respond to the first shot. But instead of testing kids to see if they responded, they just give a second MMR to EVERY kid. I bet your doctor wasn't going to tell you that! (Unless, perhaps, you are in New Jersey, where I believe the law requires doctors to inform parents of that). http://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/documents/antibody_titer_law.pdf

 

Regarding chickenpox and hepatitis A, the reason you should not vaccinate for those, is because it's GOOD for kids to get those diseases. Getting hepatitis A naturally gives lifetime immunity. The vaccine does not necessarily do that. Hepatitis A is extremely mild in kids, and most of the time causes no symptoms at all. It can be more serious in adults. Chickenpox can be annoying for kids, with those itchy spots, but it's much worse for adults. And the chickenpox vaccine does not guarantee immunity for life.

 

The last case of wild polio (not caused by the live virus oral polio vaccine, which was discontinued in the U.S. in 2000), was in 1979. So unless you're worried about your kids being the first in 35 years to get polio in the U.S., that's an easy one to skip.

 

There's 0-1 case of diphtheria per year in the U.S., about 30 cases of tetanus per year, mostly in heroin users or people over 40, and the pertussis portion of the vaccine simply does not work.

 

Hepatitis B is contracted from illegal intravenous drug use with dirty needles, or unprotected sex with an infected partner.

 

You should start looking for another doctor, not only because he is pushy, which isn't a good quality in any doctor, but because he was going to give the MMRV (MMR plus varicella in one shot). That shot has been proven to cause more seizures than giving the MMR and varicella vaccines separately, on the same day.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/mmrv/studies.html

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#8 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all! This is a great starting point for me. DH asked me to get some info so we could talk this over when he gets home and now I feel I have some good stuff to show him.

 

DH has no problem going to the Dr with me and the children and dealing with Dr. Pushy if necessary.

 

I will deff check out the sites you all recommended and I appreciate your responses!

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#9 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 09:54 PM
 
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. they have appts on May 15th where my son is sched to have 2 booster shots each containing two different immunizations (Dtap and polio together, and MMR and varicella together).


How could they know the long term effects of these shots yet?

Also, why do they vaccinate against chickenpox when we all had it as children and survived it?

I'm going to do some more research about all of them before I allow my daughter or son to get any more, but I figured you ladies would know where to find good info. I'm very skeptical of the medical community in general (2 homebirths, I NEVER go to the dr myself), but for

Our family dr is VERY pushy about vaxxing.

A couple of things. . .
Personally, I don't think anyone should talk others INTO or OUT OF vaxxing. I encourage everyone to research the vaccines, look at the statistics, and look at the child's individual risk factors.

That said, I started thinking i would just delay. I first tpread the dr. Sears book. He recommends a delayed schedule, but after reading his reasons, I found that he was recommending vaxxes that the info in his own book made seem unnecessary or dangerous. I gradually, after many books and countless hours of research, became no-vax. Not saying I would never vax. Who knows, maybe one day there will be a compelling one. . . Anyway, the other posters have given some great links. And, what kathymuggle said: you can always delay, but you can't UNvax.

Regarding your son: it sounds like you are saying he is scheduled for 4 vaxxes - 2 shots of 2 each. But, what you listed is really 8 vaxxes: 2 shots of 4 each. Tdap is tetanus, diptheria, and pertussis and mmr is measles, mumps, rubella.

Regarding your doctor: whether you decide to vax, delay, or skip altogether, get a new doc. He should be encouraging you to weigh the options, discussing your child's individual needs, etc., not dictating what you do. Lose him. There are way better practioners out there.

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#10 of 10 Old 04-09-2014, 05:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songy View Post

. they have appts on May 15th where my son is sched to have 2 booster shots each containing two different immunizations (Dtap and polio together, and MMR and varicella together).


How could they know the long term effects of these shots yet?

Also, why do they vaccinate against chickenpox when we all had it as children and survived it?

I'm going to do some more research about all of them before I allow my daughter or son to get any more, but I figured you ladies would know where to find good info. I'm very skeptical of the medical community in general (2 homebirths, I NEVER go to the dr myself), but for

Our family dr is VERY pushy about vaxxing.

A couple of things. . .
Personally, I don't think anyone should talk others INTO or OUT OF vaxxing. I encourage everyone to research the vaccines, look at the statistics, and look at the child's individual risk factors.

That said, I started thinking i would just delay. I first tpread the dr. Sears book. He recommends a delayed schedule, but after reading his reasons, I found that he was recommending vaxxes that the info in his own book made seem unnecessary or dangerous. I gradually, after many books and countless hours of research, became no-vax. Not saying I would never vax. Who knows, maybe one day there will be a compelling one. . . Anyway, the other posters have given some great links. And, what kathymuggle said: you can always delay, but you can't UNvax.

Regarding your son: it sounds like you are saying he is scheduled for 4 vaxxes - 2 shots of 2 each. But, what you listed is really 8 vaxxes: 2 shots of 4 each. Tdap is tetanus, diptheria, and pertussis and mmr is measles, mumps, rubella.

Regarding your doctor: whether you decide to vax, delay, or skip altogether, get a new doc. He should be encouraging you to weigh the options, discussing your child's individual needs, etc., not dictating what you do. Lose him. There are way better practioners out there.

the chicken pox vaccine came out to save parents time and money if their kid caught pox, then there's missed work for parents...it's nothing more than a money maker, and proliferater of shingles in young people now.  

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