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-   -   Pertussis? Newbie with a question! (http://www.mothering.com/forum/443-i-m-not-vaccinating/1423842-pertussis-newbie-question.html)

Belle78 06-14-2014 11:54 AM

Pertussis? Newbie with a question!
 
Hey everyone! I'm new here but pretty clear on where I stand with vaccinating. I have two boys (4 and 2) and a 1.5 week old daughter. My 4 yo son has sensory processing disorder, a speech delay, & likely adhd among other things. He is very bright, which is wonderful but he has already had lot of struggles and has a lot more to go. He is also sensitive to tons of foods and chemicals. We do not believe he was born this way. We can look back and see where changes happened along the way. All this to say we are certain vaccines played a role. Heavy metal testing indicates high levels of aluminum, arsenic, tin and antimony. Interestingly most children with anything from adhd to autism have high antimony levels. My son simply does not process toxic garbage like some people can. His last vax were at 2 years old. His doctor actually agreed we should wait for his 4yo shots but only a year...he wants him back on track by 5. We declined the hep A my 2 yo was supposed to get at his well check recently. He's not due for any more until he's 4. Needless to say, we are done and just haven't broken the news to the ped yet. I'm sure we will be "fired" from the practice eventually.

My real question is about my daughter. My ob doesn't offer Tdap during pregnancy and I would never have gotten it if they had. I was offered it in the hospital but declined. I wasn't ready to transfer the garbage in the shot to her in my breast milk. Also, 3 months after I had my son and had Tdap in the hospital I developed a neurological condition out of nowhere. It's benign but annoying and scared us to death. No known cause of it. But it might be autoimmune. So I'm scared to get the shot for fear of what it could do to me as well. No idea if they are related but don't want to irritate an already messed up nervous system. My question is about the real risk to my daughter from not getting myself vaccinated. I know cocooning doesn't really work but I can't help but be scared. It's consuming me. Like I said, we are determined but new to this. She will be our first totally non-vaxed child and I am looking to hear honest experiences. I can find nothing but fear-mongering online. Pertussis is the only one that really scares me right now, I think because she is so tiny.

Thanks everyone and I'm sorry this is so long!

fruitfulmomma 06-14-2014 12:12 PM

Have there been outbreaks in your area?

I have another baby due at the end of August and my basic protocol with babies is stay home as much as possible, especially in the newborn period. (My older children are homeschooled, so this is easier than it would be if I had to deal with them going to school. I don't think we've had an outbreak at our local school but area schools have.) Can you plan on spending a quiet summer at home with your boys and the new baby? And no visitors if they have been sick, even if it is just a "little cough".

If you can search through the threads here you should be able to find some info on treating pertussis that might be helpful for you.

I am on the way out the door but maybe someone else can chime in with the links, but there is evidence that pertussis vaxx not only does not prevent transmission but that if a vaxxed person comes down with it, they may be able to spread it for longer period of time. Also, if it does reduce symptoms they may not know they have it and be more likely to go out spreading it.

Belle78 06-14-2014 01:15 PM

Thank you for your response, fruitfulmomma! A quiet summer was what we were planning on anyway with the new baby so now I just need to get better about being sure anyone who visits is healthy! I don't think we have had any particular outbreaks in our area so that's good. We had 200 cases in our state last year out of 5 million people. We're in SC. My 4 yo does go to PT and OT every week and brings home all kinds of junk, I am sure. We all might need to be a lot more careful on those days. We are going to homeschool as well and start meeting with our co-op starting in August but she will be 2 months old by then and a little better to handle what may come our way. Thank you for the advice and I will look for the natural ways to treat it should we run into it!

minerva23 06-14-2014 01:56 PM

May I ask why you should get vaccinated again? Tdap is usually good for 10 years and apparently you just got vaxxed within the last 4 years or so. I honestly would not get the vax especially after the condition arose that you described. Just keep your newborn away from the crowd and sick people. Don't let yourself be scared into something that you feel is wrong. It does take all 3 shots for the pertussis vaccine to be somewhat effective anyway.

Belle78 06-14-2014 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minerva23 (Post 17697106)
May I ask why you should get vaccinated again? Tdap is usually good for 10 years and apparently you just got vaxxed within the last 4 years or so. I honestly would not get the vax especially after the condition arose that you described. Just keep your newborn away from the crowd and sick people. Don't let yourself be scared into something that you feel is wrong. It does take all 3 shots for the pertussis vaccine to be somewhat effective anyway.

minerva23, the new "reasoning" is that since there are such bad "outbreaks" that a mother should be vaccinated with each new pregnancy as the protection supposedly wanes after 2 years. I had the vaccine 2.5 years ago. If you are right about 10 years then it's even more ridiculous to keep vaccinating all of these mom's in subsequent pregnancies! And I agree that it would be too risky for me to get it. Who knows what would happen to me if I had it again! As I said, we will not be vaccinating our children from here on out, but it's just a little scary at first. Especially looking at this 7 lb baby girl and not wanting to make her sick! Thanks so much for your reply!

ssun5 06-15-2014 05:51 PM

Welcome Belle :smile:
Helping you feel better about this disease will help. Lets review some facts:

You have to understand what whooping cough is.

WC It is a MUCOSAL infection.

Natural mucosal immunity specifically targets the infection process - how the bacteria sets up shop - and the specific toxins the bacteria switch on and then start once their little claws attach to the cilia in the bronchi at "ground zero". Another words, the current whooping cough vaccines create antibodies at the "back-end", to antigens which come later in the infection. Vaccines MIGHT reduce disease severity ONLY for the few months those antibodies exist, but the current whooping cough vaccines don't create the powerful "front end" protection which will immediately clear the bacteria on re-infection. Does that make sense?
The vaccine antibodies, if they are around, might ... lessen the effect of pertussis toxin when it Finally hits the blood supply.

Again: The vaccine creates back end antibodies, BUT natural infection requires a specific bronchial immunity not made by the current vaccines, and not provided by the antibodies detected in antibody tests.



If you have ever had the DTP or DTaP... your body already has "original antigenic sin:"
In adults, booster shots don't work. Why?The original exposure to the disease through immunization "locks in" as they say the way the body will respond to it.Which is why vaccinated people can't clear the bacteria from the bronchi and therefore become carriers if infected, and THEN can act as a reservoir to infect others. They do not respond to the key toxins which arise as A PROCESS of infection.



This is WHY scientists have been searching and testing for an intra-nasal vaccine, starting in 2000. BPEZ1 has been tested and should it work, should be the only "vax" given for WC. It is to finally confront "front end" defenses in the mucosal area where they need to be. This should also help against parapertussis as well.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21430219

However: The intra-nasal vaccine will be of no use to adults, whose immunity - as a result of "original antigenic sin" was primed for "back end" immunity and whose immune system will no longer respond in any other way - so an intra-nasal vaccine won't give front end immunity to adults, any more than re-exposure to whooping cough would, or booster injections will. In fact, adults will continue to be the main source of carriage and spread in the community because of this.

Given that booster shots don't increase the bactericidal qualities in the blood why recommend them?
The shot is not meant or made to stop transmission to anyone else.
The shot will NEVER help you not get it.
The only thing the vax does is "possibly" lesson severity (which is a crap shot to say what percentage-some seem to have no symptoms while others get horrible cases).


This is also why vaxing pregnant moms or getting everyone vaxed around you is about the WORST idea possible. No wonder there are small epidemics going on.
If anyone tells you different they don't understand how this vax works. Bronchial infections are very, very different from other diseases.



Now, so you don't freak out or become afraid of your child getting it. Lets look at some links for treatment of WC :
http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-va...nt-infant.html



: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...ated%20Edition




Belle78 06-16-2014 11:09 AM

Wow, thank you so much for the information and the links! I feel like if I would stock up on knowledge and supplies I could be ready to handle just about anything.

Thank you so so much! Off to take some notes now :)

kathymuggle 06-16-2014 01:42 PM

My 2 cents:

There is some agreement, even among vaccine debators that the pertussis vaccines decreases symptoms but still allows for disease transmission. You can get pertussus even if vaccinated - but you may have a mild case or being asymptomatic.

Pertussis is spread by droplet. Pertussis begins as a cold and is most contagious in the first week or two.

I can see an argument (usually made by PVers) that non-vaxxers are more likely to spread disease to the public at large because coughing (typcial presentation in unvaxxed person in the contagious period) is more likely to spread droplets than breathing or minor coughing (typcial presentation of a vaxxed person in the contagious period). This argument holds no water with me when we are talking about our own child. We nurse, cuddle, kiss, etc our own child…we do breathe on them! I don't think the vaccine will protect you from getting pertussis, nor do I think it will protect you from transmitting pertussis to your baby…it will just protect you from symptoms.

Anyone see anything wrong with my logic?

kathymuggle 06-16-2014 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssun5 (Post 17699386)

Now, so you don't freak out or become afraid of your child getting it. Lets look at some links for treatment of WC :

I would also add to look at the statistics.

I looked up the stats on reported cases of whooping cough in my province a few years and it was 1/14 000 per year in all age brackets. This was re-assuring to me. I am also an advocate for keeping baby our of crowded public places, not playing pass the baby and being firm about keeping anyone with cold like symptoms away from a baby under 4 months old.

lizdag 06-16-2014 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssun5 (Post 17699386)
Welcome Belle :smile:
Helping you feel better about this disease will help. Lets review some facts:

You have to understand what whooping cough is.

WC It is a MUCOSAL infection.

Natural mucosal immunity specifically targets the infection process - how the bacteria sets up shop - and the specific toxins the bacteria switch on and then start once their little claws attach to the cilia in the bronchi at "ground zero". Another words, the current whooping cough vaccines create antibodies at the "back-end", to antigens which come later in the infection. Vaccines MIGHT reduce disease severity ONLY for the few months those antibodies exist, but the current whooping cough vaccines don't create the powerful "front end" protection which will immediately clear the bacteria on re-infection. Does that make sense?
The vaccine antibodies, if they are around, might ... lessen the effect of pertussis toxin when it Finally hits the blood supply.

Again: The vaccine creates back end antibodies, BUT natural infection requires a specific bronchial immunity not made by the current vaccines, and not provided by the antibodies detected in antibody tests.



If you have ever had the DTP or DTaP... your body already has "original antigenic sin:"
In adults, booster shots don't work. Why?The original exposure to the disease through immunization "locks in" as they say the way the body will respond to it.Which is why vaccinated people can't clear the bacteria from the bronchi and therefore become carriers if infected, and THEN can act as a reservoir to infect others. They do not respond to the key toxins which arise as A PROCESS of infection.



This is WHY scientists have been searching and testing for an intra-nasal vaccine, starting in 2000. BPEZ1 has been tested and should it work, should be the only "vax" given for WC. It is to finally confront "front end" defenses in the mucosal area where they need to be. This should also help against parapertussis as well.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21430219

However: The intra-nasal vaccine will be of no use to adults, whose immunity - as a result of "original antigenic sin" was primed for "back end" immunity and whose immune system will no longer respond in any other way - so an intra-nasal vaccine won't give front end immunity to adults, any more than re-exposure to whooping cough would, or booster injections will. In fact, adults will continue to be the main source of carriage and spread in the community because of this.

Given that booster shots don't increase the bactericidal qualities in the blood why recommend them?
The shot is not meant or made to stop transmission to anyone else.
The shot will NEVER help you not get it.
The only thing the vax does is "possibly" lesson severity (which is a crap shot to say what percentage-some seem to have no symptoms while others get horrible cases).


This is also why vaxing pregnant moms or getting everyone vaxed around you is about the WORST idea possible. No wonder there are small epidemics going on.
If anyone tells you different they don't understand how this vax works. Bronchial infections are very, very different from other diseases.



Now, so you don't freak out or become afraid of your child getting it. Lets look at some links for treatment of WC :
http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-va...nt-infant.html



: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...ated%20Edition




Can one get re-infected right after a bout of whooping cough? Like in our family the two little ones got it before the rest of us and will be finished before we are, can we re-infect them?

sassyfirechick 06-17-2014 09:06 AM

We stopped vaxxing at 5mos because of reactions but in that time frame I still tried to keep DD away from sickly people because I knew she wasn't "protected"...BUT that said, I was pretty confident that anything she came across would be tackled via breastfeeding and my maternal antibodies. I'm fairly suspicious that all three of us had a bout of pertussis this winter but with lots of vit c (we use the pertussis protocol for pretty much every cold) we did fine (well DD and I pushed on, DH caved at week 3 or 4 and took antibiotics at the tail end of it so I'm pretty sure it had zero benefit to him). Definitely by 2mos though I wasn't too worried about WC...more so just the nasty wintertime bugs in general!

ssun5 06-17-2014 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizdag (Post 17702570)
Can one get re-infected right after a bout of whooping cough? Like in our family the two little ones got it before the rest of us and will be finished before we are, can we re-infect them?

This depends. Have the 2 little ones already had all their DTaP shots?
If they get a "natural infection" then they can not. I have seen conflicting evidence on how long natural immunity lasts, but it seems to be somewhere between 20-50 years. :-) A long time!
Plus, you have primed the body through natural infection against Parapertussis as well.

Now, if your kids get a natural infection, and you have had all your shots.... I am sorry to say that it looks like nothing will stop you from getting it again and again. Your body has been taught to fight it this way. The symptoms will just vary each time and also depending on how you treat it.

ssun5 06-17-2014 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle (Post 17701882)
My 2 cents:

There is some agreement, even among vaccine debators that the pertussis vaccines decreases symptoms but not still allows for disease transmission. You can get pertussus even if vaccinated - but you may have a mild case or being asymptomatic.

Pertussis is spread by droplet. Pertussis begins as a cold and is most contagious in the first week or two.

I can see an argument (usually made by PVers) that non-vaxxers are more likely to spread disease to the public at large because coughing (typcial presentation in unvaxxed person in the contagious period) is more likely to spread droplets than breathing or minor coughing (typcial presentation of a vaxxed person in the contagious period). This argument holds no water with me when we are talking about our own child. We nurse, cuddle, kiss, etc our own child…we do breathe on them! I don't think the vaccine will protect you from getting pertussis, nor do I think it will protect you from transmitting pertussis to your baby…it will just protect you from symptoms.

Anyone see anything wrong with my logic?

The wc part of the DTaP is the vax that I understand why parents seem to want to get. It is just that it doesn't actually do what is claimed.
Every mom I know Swears that the vax keeps them from getting the disease at all. This is what drives me batty. It wasn't ever made to do that. Its purpose always was to basically take away symptoms so therefore, they thought that was just as good as not getting it.
No one thought about actually turning people into reservoirs or now moving the population that gets it the most is infants under one.
Plus, it still doesn't have good efficacy! this means that some folks will still get a case that is JUST as bad as someone without the shot. There really is no telling.

The moms who get it, it works well and say just have a tiny cold for a day - or are the very lucky few to have no symptoms.They are walking around on the street, holding their babies, and are still JUST as contagious while their body is fighting it off. It only takes one cough, one droplet while they are holding, cuddling etc as you put it Kathy.

If you KNEW you had it.... most people would act very different-take special precautions etc.

Plus, since moms have been told that since they or their kids have had the vax, it can't be pertussis... I hear coughing people out and about it seems every time I go to a store.

Misunderstanding about what this vax does or doesn't do is hurting all of us! I am actually amazed more people aren't getting it. I am Thrilled about that- but wish others would take more precautions.

Belle78 06-17-2014 12:08 PM

Thank you all for your input. I feel a lot better about my decision not to get the vaccine again. It clearly wouldn't help. But now I'm getting sick! Now every time I have a cold I am going to wonder if it is pertussis or not. I'm certainly run down caring for a newborn and my young boys as well. I have some ascorbic acid on the way in the mail right now for myself (and the infant via breast milk) and am looking for something for my other children as well. I'm sure I just have a cold right now but I want to have these things on hand if needed. You are all such a great support and source of so much information. I look forward to learning more!

applejuice 06-17-2014 12:33 PM

Thank you.

You should know that the use of vitamin C in general and sodium ascorbate in particular has been in the medical literature since the 1930s when the pertussis vaccine came into general use. The pertussis vaccine has been known to be neurologically toxic in the medical literature since the 1940s when the pertussis vaccine was made mandatory. This is nothing new.

I have learned much since I had my own children and now they are grown. I grew up nonvaxed and recall polio victims in my classroom but I also had victims of rheumatic and scarlet fever - where are those diseases today and where are the vaccines to fight them?

I posted the information about vitamin C and pertussis few months back, only to read a detractor post on his facebook page that, "... and they let people like this become parents!" So you are still going against the grain of society, but when there are enough people learning, researching, questioning, and finally making decisions for their families, then I know we are making progress. Vaccines are an 18th century form of disease prevention. We need to move forward.

Belle78 06-17-2014 12:47 PM

I'm also looking for sodium ascorbate for myself and my children - someone had just passed a quick link on to find the ascorbic acid so I went ahead and ordered it. If anyone has a brand they recommend I would love to know what and where you get it. If this has already been mentioned and I missed it, I apologize. I've been reading so much. We have some health food stores close by that I will check out as well. Thank you!

applejuice 06-17-2014 01:47 PM

I have used Bronson, formulas 145, 50B, or 49B.
www.bronsonvitamins.com/

NOW also has a 3# container of sodium ascorbate - http://www.nowfoods.com/Sodium-Ascor...owder-3lbs.htm

Ask about the source of the vitamin C as you do not want to use GMOs.

lizdag 06-17-2014 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssun5 (Post 17704618)
This depends. Have the 2 little ones already had all their DTaP shots?
If they get a "natural infection" then they can not. I have seen conflicting evidence on how long natural immunity lasts, but it seems to be somewhere between 20-50 years. :-) A long time!
Plus, you have primed the body through natural infection against Parapertussis as well.

Now, if your kids get a natural infection, and you have had all your shots.... I am sorry to say that it looks like nothing will stop you from getting it again and again. Your body has been taught to fight it this way. The symptoms will just vary each time and also depending on how you treat it.

None of the kids have had any VAX. I talked to a couple medical doctors today and they said that even though my hubby and I were VAX as kids it has worn off and we would build immunity... so I found that interesting. And they said that the kids would not get it again if re exposed being they have it their bodies are building immunity to it.
thanks for your reply. I wish there were more concrete info on what really happens :)

Feliz 06-18-2014 05:53 AM

Pertussis almost killed my daughter
 
I hate to be a naysayer here but OP, you absolutely should be concerned about Pertussis and your little girl. My daughter caught it at 5 weeks old and spent weeks 7 through 10 of her short life in the pediatric ICU in one of the best children's hospitals in the Southeast.

Yes, I kept her in the house. Yes, I kept her away from everyone but immediate family. Yes, I was vaccinated, as were her grandparents and siblings. Unfortunately, her father was not. Guess who brought Pertussis home from the office? Yep. Daddy. Guess who almost lost their 12 pound daughter to Pertussis?

Fortunately, she pulled through after 3 weeks of apnic spells that lasted long enough to stop her breathing for 30 - 90 seconds and send her heart rate plummeting into the 40's each time. She turned blue-grey, choked, and struggled every 30 - 45 minutes for a week. Then the time between spells stretched gradually to the point where she was no longer having apparent life threatening events and we could take her home with an apnea monitor, suction machine and the fear that we might wake up one day to find her not breathing.

By the time she was 5 months old or so, she could actually sleep for a couple hours without waking up choking and now, at a year old, is healthy with the exception of a nagging cough. Her father still suffers from the after effects of the illness as he had a preexisting lung condition and severe asthma prior to becoming infected. His lungs are permanently damaged from this disease.

So, no...I don't believe its ok to not vaccinate your kid for pertussis. Take it from a mother who faced the very real possibility that her only daughter might die at 8 weeks old and vaccinate your family and your baby. Its just not worth it to take the chance that she might catch a disease that could very well kill her.

fruitfulmomma 06-18-2014 06:42 AM

Feliz, welcome to Mothering. Please note that this was posted in the I'm Not Vaccinating forum, which is a support-only forum for families who are currently not or seriously considering not vaccinating. I can not find a direct link to our guidelines (the format of the site changed a few weeks ago) so I went ahead and flagged your post so that a mod can share them with you. If you wish to share your story you are welcome to do so here www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/ and/or in whichever of these support forums best fits your beliefs - Selective and Delayed: http://www.mothering.com/forum/373-s...d-vaccination/ or Vaccinating on Schedule: http://www.mothering.com/forum/17507...ting-schedule/

I think you will find if you read through some of our posts, that not only are we not unconcerned about pertussis in newborns, but that because we know that pertussis can be so scary in newborns we are actually very concerned that the current vaccine recommendations are making things far worse. (One of our members who doesn't post very often actually almost lost her newborn daughter to pertussis as well, only she caught it from her NICU nurse who was up-to-date on her vaccines.) Again, if you want to discuss please start a thread in the main forum. Thanks.

fruitfulmomma 06-18-2014 06:47 AM

Since we are having a lively conversation here, I won't start another thread, but am wondering about the old pertussis vaxx and its efficacy if anyone has that info? I got the TDaP lecture at my ob appt. yesterday (from a midwife I had not met before, my ob knows we don't vax but she was out) and she confirmed that the CDC is now saying it should be given during every new pregnancy. Which got me wondering, for those of us who were vaxxed with the older DPT, which was supposed to be more effective, what are the chances that we still have any immunity from that?

Feliz 06-18-2014 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma (Post 17707186)
Feliz, welcome to Mothering. Please note that this was posted in the I'm Not Vaccinating forum, which is a support-only forum for families who are currently not or seriously considering not vaccinating. I can not find a direct link to our guidelines (the format of the site changed a few weeks ago) so I went ahead and flagged your post so that a mod can share them with you. If you wish to share your story you are welcome to do so here www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/ and/or in whichever of these support forums best fits your beliefs - Selective and Delayed: http://www.mothering.com/forum/373-s...d-vaccination/ or Vaccinating on Schedule: http://www.mothering.com/forum/17507...ting-schedule/

I think you will find if you read through some of our posts, that not only are we not unconcerned about pertussis in newborns, but that because we know that pertussis can be so scary in newborns we are actually very concerned that the current vaccine recommendations are making things far worse. (One of our members who doesn't post very often actually almost lost her newborn daughter to pertussis as well, only she caught it from her NICU nurse who was up-to-date on her vaccines.) Again, if you want to discuss please start a thread in the main forum. Thanks.

Thanks so much fruitfulmomma, for your information, however I'd like to draw your attention to the request for "real experiences" in the OP's post. In fact, here is the direct quote...."She will be our first totally non-vaxed child and I am looking to hear honest experiences."

So, if I'm correct what you're saying is that if one has a "real experience" that doesn't conform to your views, its not welcome here? I wonder if that's in the T&C's as well........

fruitfulmomma 06-18-2014 08:36 AM

I found the link to the forum guidelines. You are welcome to read them here http://www.mothering.com/articles/va...um-guidelines/. If you have any questions about what is and isn't appropriate for this forum you will need to speak with a moderator. You can do that by posting in the Site Help Forum - http://www.mothering.com/forum/2-site-help/. If the OP wishes to hear from our vaccinating members she will need to contact a mod to move this thread and/or start a new one in one of the other forums.
Quote:

I’m Not Vaccinating - This is a support-only forum for those not or those seriously considering not vaccinating. Here we host discussion of issues that arise when choosing to not vaccinate and sharing of resources and information that are related to the no-vax decision. Members who are vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted. - See more at: http://www.mothering.com/articles/va....9QAZBTjb.dpuf

sassyfirechick 06-18-2014 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feliz (Post 17707498)
Thanks so much fruitfulmomma, for your information, however I'd like to draw your attention to the request for "real experiences" in the OP's post. In fact, here is the direct quote...."She will be our first totally non-vaxed child and I am looking to hear honest experiences."

So, if I'm correct what you're saying is that if one has a "real experience" that doesn't conform to your views, its not welcome here? I wonder if that's in the T&C's as well........

Real experiences from those who share views on non-vaxxing. This is not a place to come and lecture people on your views. While unfortunate what you experienced, it doesn't mean the forum guidelines are going to change to accommodate your push for vaccines.


Fruitfulmomma, I'd also be interested to know more about the difference in duration. I was fully vaxxed as an 80's kid, and assumably did get a dtap (or some variety of) booster when I got stitches for a dog bite when I was 25 ish - I didn't conceive DD til I was 27 and she was born a month after I turned 28 and I turned down the offer for a booster from my midwife so I'm about 5 years out form my last booster and def wouldn't get one for subsequent pregnancies. I had a pretty nasty reaction to the last one anyhow.

kathymuggle 06-18-2014 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feliz (Post 17707050)
I hate to be a naysayer here but OP, you absolutely should be concerned about Pertussis and your little girl. My daughter caught it at 5 weeks old and spent weeks 7 through 10 of her short life in the pediatric ICU in one of the best children's hospitals in the Southeast.

Yes, I kept her in the house. Yes, I kept her away from everyone but immediate family. Yes, I was vaccinated, as were her grandparents and siblings. Unfortunately, her father was not. Guess who brought Pertussis home from the office? Yep. Daddy. Guess who almost lost their 12 pound daughter to Pertussis?

Fortunately, she pulled through after 3 weeks of apnic spells that lasted long enough to stop her breathing for 30 - 90 seconds and send her heart rate plummeting into the 40's each time. She turned blue-grey, choked, and struggled every 30 - 45 minutes for a week. Then the time between spells stretched gradually to the point where she was no longer having apparent life threatening events and we could take her home with an apnea monitor, suction machine and the fear that we might wake up one day to find her not breathing.

By the time she was 5 months old or so, she could actually sleep for a couple hours without waking up choking and now, at a year old, is healthy with the exception of a nagging cough. Her father still suffers from the after effects of the illness as he had a preexisting lung condition and severe asthma prior to becoming infected. His lungs are permanently damaged from this disease.

So, no...I don't believe its ok to not vaccinate your kid for pertussis. Take it from a mother who faced the very real possibility that her only daughter might die at 8 weeks old and vaccinate your family and your baby. Its just not worth it to take the chance that she might catch a disease that could very well kill her.


I am sorry this happened to your family and am glad she pulled through :)

I do not quite get the bolded. Your daughter was too young to be vaccinated - virtually all children who are at serious risk from pertussis are.

As per daddy bringing it home - he probably would have brought it home, vaxxed or not. A lot of this thread is on how those who have been vaxxed and get pertussis can transmit it anyways. You may think they transmit it less (and maybe they do to the general public based on the number of droplets spewn and how far they go; OTOH the vaxxed tend to get pertussis more often, and be out and about more often with pertussis) but I sincrely doubt that holds with a father. Most father do hold, kiss, cuddle, etc their babies. It is worth noting that Australia, which is a very pro-vax country, abandonned "cocooning" (which is trying to vax everyone around the child to create a buffer zone) because they did not have evidence it worked. I do not know if that brings you comfort or not, but I truly believe your husband probably would have transmitted pertussis to your daughter - vaxxed or not. If you have evidence to the contrary, I do suggest you bring it up on the main forum.

applejuice 06-18-2014 09:10 AM

Please update your information about the disease pertussis with the fact that the medical literature has stated since the 1930s that sodium ascorbate is an effective treatment for pertussis. When the vaccine was mandatory in the 1940s, the medical literature knew that the vaccine was neurotoxic.

Furthermore, the medical literature has known for decades that the pertussis vaccine is linked temporally to incidents of SIDS. Several studies have made note of this fact both with the wP and now the aP. http://www.eurekaselect.com/115921/article

My real life experience with pertussis and other diseases that have vaccines for them is that doctors are not educated to know how to identify and properly diagnose pertussis, measles, or any other disease unless the doctor is notified by the health department that there may be a breakout. In the meantime, patient zero, one, two, and three are not properly diagnosed nor treated.

kathymuggle 06-18-2014 09:16 AM

Australia and cocooning:
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226350174856

"He said the national Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee (PBAC) had determined vaccinating parents was not effective in protecting newborns, after two pharmaceutical manufacturers made submissions to the PBAC.
"The PBAC, which is totally independent and very expert, has determined that there is no clinical effectiveness of this strategy," Professor Brook said.
He said this had made it clear the cocooning strategy should not be continued."

applejuice 06-18-2014 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle (Post 17707714)
Australia and cocooning:
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226350174856

"He said the national Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee (PBAC) had determined vaccinating parents was not effective in protecting newborns, after two pharmaceutical manufacturers made submissions to the PBAC.
"The PBAC, which is totally independent and very expert, has determined that there is no clinical effectiveness of this strategy," Professor Brook said.
He said this had made it clear the cocooning strategy should not be continued."

Excellent post, kathymuggle.

And note, even though the title is breaking news, the news item is two years old. The AMA and AAP are slow on the uptake, like many other things.

applejuice 06-18-2014 09:46 AM

Tell me, does the VOS forum have problems with newbies posting there with news of vaccine injury, ineffectiveness, and damage?

Why does the I am not vaccinating forum get the new members coming here and educating us?

This happens about every week or so.

ssun5 06-18-2014 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizdag (Post 17706466)
None of the kids have had any VAX. I talked to a couple medical doctors today and they said that even though my hubby and I were VAX as kids it has worn off and we would build immunity... so I found that interesting. And they said that the kids would not get it again if re exposed being they have it their bodies are building immunity to it.
thanks for your reply. I wish there were more concrete info on what really happens :)

The kids are golden then :smile:

The vax wearing off "immunity" just means that when WC hits your blood supply, you no longer have it there to combat the back end defenses:therefore your symptoms will be similar to a first time contract.
I do wish (really and truly) that just going a number of years without the vax would be enough to give us real long lasting immunity once faced with the disease just like normal un vaxed folks. *I was vaxed as a child myself* However, the literature shows something else.

Type in "original antigenic sin" in google and it will show you a whole new world.
While Yes: you will have your anitbodies in your blood stream for a good number of years for sure- so it can give you some protection against severity of symptoms if you do catch it again *which is a great thing*:
However, your body has been taught how to fight this off by not giving you front end antibodies in the mucosal like a natural infection.
Such a complicated thing!!!


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