Doctor visits in first 2 years for NVers - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 43 Old 06-20-2014, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Doctor visits in first 2 years for NVers

Thesis: NVers go to the doctor less often in the first 2 years for WBV than vaxxers. Significant delayers (post 2 years) also welcome to play.

I think this is a good thing as doctors offices are often cess-pools of germs.

So - to keep the variables under control, assume you do not have midwifery care (as they often do home visits for babies for the first 6 weeks). Say what visits you would do if you had an infant now. Bold the number of wbv visits in the first 2 years so we can easily keep track.

1 visit in the first week or two
1 visit around 6 weeks
1 vist around 3 months
1 visit around 6 months
1 visit around 1 yr
1 visit around 2 years.

I could see myself skipping the 6 month and 2 year if everything was going smoothly. So, my total would be 4-6. Lets say 5 for easiness sake.
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#2 of 43 Old 06-20-2014, 07:39 AM
 
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We didn't have midwifery care for the last one so I did do the wbv. I probably would have stopped after the first few, except she had some issues I was wanting to keep a closer eye on.
I can't remember exactly but this looks about right...
Quote:
1 visit in the first week or two
1 visit around 6 weeks
1 vist around 3 months
1 visit around 6 months
1 visit around 1 yr

1 visit around 2 years.
We had a visit at 2 days because she had a slightly higher bilirubin count and was also making brick dust instead of urine. We had an 18 month visit and he said since we weren't vaxxing he did not need to see her for another year so we won't do a 2 year.

We are expecting again at the end of August and will probably do at least the 2 and 6 week visits. Barring any other complications I may skip some of the others. It is a complete pain to drive 25 minutes to an appointment and sit in the waiting room just to be told they look normal, especially when I've had six other children. I did several wbv with my oldest because I wasn't too sure of myself way back then but we didn't do all of them then either.
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#3 of 43 Old 06-20-2014, 04:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
Thesis: NVers go to the doctor less often in the first 2 years for WBV than vaxxers. Significant delayers (post 2 years) also welcome to play.

I think this is a good thing as doctors offices are often cess-pools of germs.

So - to keep the variables under control, assume you do not have midwifery care (as they often do home visits for babies for the first 6 weeks). Say what visits you would do if you had an infant now. Bold the number of wbv visits in the first 2 years so we can easily keep track.

1 visit in the first week or two
1 visit around 6 weeks
1 vist around 3 months
1 visit around 6 months
1 visit around 1 yr
1 visit around 2 years.

I could see myself skipping the 6 month and 2 year if everything was going smoothly. So, my total would be 4-6. Lets say 5 for easiness sake.
Well, every baby so far I have had a visit on day 2, then 2 weeks and then 3 months. When I have another one (whenever that happens) we will do the same.

After that my doc doesn't want me to come in until they are 1 years old unless they are sick.

So far non of my kids have ever been sick in their first year: not even a sniffle. I also breastfeed during that time too.

From then on, he likes them to come in only once a year-unless again they need too.

So yes, much less than my vaxing friends. They have WBV plus all the times their kids are sick.
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#4 of 43 Old 06-20-2014, 06:49 PM
 
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I can see us skipping the 6mo as well putting it at 5.

With DD we did 3 days, 2wks, 1mo, 2mo, 4mo, 5mo, 6mo, 9mo, 13mo.....insane!!! And we were reprimanded for having to reschedule her 1yr to 13mos and at that point we were told that 15mos could prob be skipped but that we had to go back at 18mos...yah we left that office and the ND we use now only wants her once a yr or if we have an issue.

How about preemies? My friend had a 35 wkr, wasn't too tiny at 5lbs, zero complications, no NICU visit, and they had her going weekly for weight checks - clearly he had no issues bulking because at his 3mo check he was almost 14lbs :-P I think I might be ok with getting a scale for home use if there were no other issues rather than subjecting them to too many visits and exposure to whatever is floating around the office. But my ND is also pretty flexible and I feel like she'd be way more lenient about that and I know she's always available via phone and I don't doubt that if it was absolutely necessary she'd prob do a home visit. She doesn't accept insurance, all out of pocket (although i can file with my ins for out of network but the reimbursement is stuidly low) which I also suspect allows her to be more open with her patients.
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#5 of 43 Old 06-21-2014, 02:06 AM
 
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We are nv and went to every wb check. I can't recall how many but it was the standard. At one year we stop and now do once a year.
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#6 of 43 Old 06-21-2014, 09:11 PM
 
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I don't think doctors' offices are germier cesspools than anywhere else you're likely to go with an infant (grocery store, waiting area at dance or music class, Ikea ball pit, playground, McD's, etc).

I also think well-baby visits can be very important; our pediatrician always does a thorough checkup, spends a lot of time with us, and discusses any concerns.

There are many developmental and congenital issues that pediatricians are trained to look for, that might be missed by exhausted, sleep-deprived mothers, especially first-time mothers.

I am not a fan of skipping well-baby check ups.
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#7 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 05:28 AM
 
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For once I agree with Taxi on this one. Not all babies are lucky enough to not have any issues and a lot of times they go unnoticed because we don't know what to look for. Having someone check over your child during the early developmental stages is very important and can be the difference in early intervention and letting something important go completely unnoticed.
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#8 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think doctors' offices are germier cesspools than anywhere else you're likely to go with an infant (grocery store, waiting area at dance or music class, Ikea ball pit, playground, McD's, etc).

.
I would wager that in general the number of sick people in a doctors office is higher than the number of sick people in the waiting area of a dance class, for example.

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#9 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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For once I agree with Taxi on this one. Not all babies are lucky enough to not have any issues and a lot of times they go unnoticed because we don't know what to look for. Having someone check over your child during the early developmental stages is very important and can be the difference in early intervention and letting something important go completely unnoticed.
No one here has mentionned skipping WBV entirely. I agree the early ones in particular have value. It is the total number in particular that is in question - and if NVers can and should skip some, and what are the ramifications of this.

Total typical schedule:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001928.htm.

After the baby is born, the next visit should be 2-3 days after bringing the baby home (for breast-fed babies) or when the baby is 2-4 days old

By 1 month
2 months
4 months
6 months
9 months
1 year
15 months
18 months
2 years
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#10 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 06:10 AM
 
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I would wager that in general the number of sick people in a doctors office is higher than the number of sick people in the waiting area of a dance class, for example.
I really don't think so.

I'd say that the number of people with active symptoms is higher at the doctor's office. But when I go to the doctor's office, there are usually only 3 or 4 people in the waiting room when I'm there, plus whoever accompanied them. I usually wait for 20-30 minutes in the waiting room, so figure that 8, maybe 10 people shuttle through every hour. If it's a pediatrician's office, include siblings, so more. Some are sick; some have ongoing medical issues like diabetes or asthma; some have injuries; some are there for check ups.

The dance class waiting room is usually stuffed with 15-25 moms (max number of kids in the class is 25) plus younger siblings, who play in the toy corner with the toys that are handled by 40 or 50 kids a day. There is always coughing, sneezing, nose-running, and drooling going on. Somebody's diaper always needs changing. Somebody probably got a chicken pox, MMR, or flu vaccine in the last week or two (though it's much more likely at the pediatrician, I'll admit that--but then they leave the pediatrician to shed their virus everywhere else). Somebody is always about to be sick (extremely contagious), or just getting over a virus (less contagious).

I dunno, Kathy--stop at the grocery store on the way home, where 29 people have already sneezed on your shopping cart, dozens have already handled the produce, and where the cashier handled money with 200 people, bagged their groceries, and then bagged your groceries...I just don't see the doctor's office as more of a germ threat!
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#11 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Some of it may well come down to regional differences and perception.

My area:

6-8 people in a waiting room, lets say 1/2 are actively sick (I go to a GP). Average 1/2 wait time.

Using just the waiting room alone, and if the office is open for 7 hours - we are talking 7 sick people per hour for 7 hours. 49 sick people go through the space in a day.

Dance class waiting areas in this area are unlikely to have more than 15 people in them and I am being very generous. Most people drop and then pick up. Lets say 10% are sick and round up - 2 sick people in the room. Lets say they run 3 dance classes an evening - 6 sick people were through on a given day. Even if 20% are sick, we are still talking only 12 sick people.

That is a huge difference.

I would not recommend newborns hanging around crowded dance wait rooms, anyways.
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#12 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 06:24 AM
 
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I am not sure it is possible to quantify the difference between medical office waiting rooms and other areas of gather. I am sure it is possible to get sick at either, but since I don't tend to hang out in congested places I guess I don't really think about it much. I have however gotten sick on numerous occasions after going to the doctors office.

As far as the original question, I answered according to how Kathy asked the question, but 4 of my daughters did zero wbv, outside of the 2 and 6 week visits provided by the midwife at her home office.
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#13 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 06:24 AM
 
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No one here has mentionned skipping WBV entirely. I agree the early ones in particular have value. It is the total number in particular that is in question - and if NVers can and should skip some, and what are the ramifications of this.

Total typical schedule:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/001928.htm.

After the baby is born, the next visit should be 2-3 days after bringing the baby home (for breast-fed babies) or when the baby is 2-4 days old

By 1 month
2 months
4 months
6 months
9 months
1 year
15 months
18 months
2 years
Honestly, I don't think any of those should be skipped!

There are developmental and congenital issues that can appear at any of those stages, and which can easily be missed by someone not trained to look for them, especially an exhausted mom.

I know one mom who completely missed her 5th child's signs of high-functioning autism, which were very clear to me. She was so relieved that he was such an easy toddler, who was happy to be parked in front of his favorite videos, and she was so busy meeting the needs of the older 4, she just didn't worry about him as long as he didn't complain. She thought he didn't talk because the older kids talked so much, they just talked for him.

His pediatrician was the one who caught it.

Cardiac issues are a better example, though. How many moms take time to listen for a murmur? How many would know one if they heard one?
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#14 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 06:47 AM
 
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Some of it may well come down to regional differences and perception.

My area:

6-8 people in a waiting room, lets say 1/2 are actively sick (I go to a GP). Average 1/2 wait time.

Using just the waiting room alone, and if the office is open for 7 hours - we are talking 7 sick people per hour for 7 hours. 49 sick people go through the space in a day.

Dance class waiting areas in this area are unlikely to have more than 15 people in them and I am being very generous. Most people drop and then pick up. Lets say 10% are sick and round up - 2 sick people in the room. Lets say they run 3 dance classes an evening - 6 sick people were through on a given day. Even if 20% are sick, we are still talking only 12 sick people.

That is a huge difference.

I would not recommend newborns hanging around crowded dance wait rooms, anyways.
Our dance classes go pretty much all day--they have classes for ages 4 and up, starting at 9:30 am--but I'm being nitpicky.

But how many of your 49 sick people are going to go to the pharmacy at the grocery chain, pick up a prescription, and grab a few groceries on the way home? I'd bet it's most of them! And some will have stopped at the lab for a blood draw, first. Some will even pick up their kid from school and head for dance class!

As for newborns at crowded wait room--what do you expect the mom of a newborn to do? Get a babysitter to stay home with the baby while she takes the siblings to their activities (and then leaks milk all over the waiting room because it was time for a feeding, but the baby's not with her)? Pay someone to drive the siblings to their activities so she can stay home and nurse the baby?

Real life, here: you take your baby with you wherever you go, and sit in the (germy) waiting room and nurse the baby.

My point is not that you should fear the germs to the point of locking yourself at home, but that the germs are EVERYWHERE. We're already exposed to them, one way or another. I agree that it doesn't make sense to take a healthy baby somewhere, anywhere there are likely to be sick people, if you don't have a good reason--but well-baby check ups ARE a good reason. Taking siblings to their activities, going to the grocery store, etc, are also good reasons--you have to live your life, even with an infant!

Our ped schedules well baby visits first thing in the morning, before all the sick people arrive. They also use different exam rooms. Some peds have separate waiting rooms, too.

Ask daycare and elementary teachers how often they get sick in their first year of teaching--from kids who come to school on the verge of some virus or other, when they're super-contagious. But then, the teachers hardly ever get sick again after that first year.
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#15 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 08:14 AM
 
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If you're skipping the dr office to stay away from germs you might as well stay in your home indefinitely. It's just not feasible. I don't think it's a good Idea to advocate skipping WBA's ever. They're not just for vaccines, I fill out a long form about different growth aspects of my little guy and discuss important issues with my ped at every appointment.
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#16 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If you're skipping the dr office to stay away from germs you might as well stay in your home indefinitely.
People are not newborns forever. They are actually newborns for a very small amount of time.

A newborn with a fever can equal a spinal tap for example, a robust 9 month old? Nope.

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#17 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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[QUOTE=Taximom5;17718594]

My point is not that you should fear the germs to the point of locking yourself at home, but that the germs are EVERYWHERE. We're already exposed to them, one way or another. I agree that it doesn't make sense to take a healthy baby somewhere, anywhere there are likely to be sick people, if you don't have a good reason--but well-baby check ups ARE a good reason. Taking siblings to their activities, going to the grocery store, etc, are also good reasons--you have to live your life, even with an infant!

/QUOTE]

Bolding mine. I actually do think newborns (say under 4 months) should be kept out of crowded places if at all possible, and yes, this includes some well baby visits. I do not think the number of WBV our society does is necessary. Where is the evidence they have to be so so often? I think carefully scheduled, but ultimately less visits, might be fine.

There are risks to skipping WBV, but there are also risks to going to them.

An article on getting sick at the doctors office:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0212144611.htm

(This might just be an "agree to disagree" area)
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#18 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 05:07 PM
 
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getting things in the office certain can and does happen (colds, other illnesses, etc) and to think all things medical are caught by WBV is also inaccurate, doctors are far from perfect and in many offices you see a different one each visit, I know IRL of a child that had a serious condition that later required surgery and went to each Well Check, it was missed and didn't show up until the moved and changed doctors

Many people managed for centuries to live (and thrive to ripe old age too) without going to check-up! To each their own! It's no guarantee either way.
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#19 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 07:09 PM
 
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When we were still seeing our original pediatrician, wait time was something like 40 mins with actual visit being under 5 mins. Yep, less than 5mins was the clocked time for our last visit there and it involved more entering in our "delinquent" vax status in her laptop than anything else. Caught a nasty cold (DD and I) 3 days before xmas by sitting in that waiting room! Our ND however encourages people to stay home and call her when sick and the waiting room NEVER has anyone in it!

I think WBV's have merit but I also think that no one knows my child like I do and I've caught things that the ped has missed because I'm very aware of my child.
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#20 of 43 Old 06-22-2014, 10:20 PM
 
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I actually do think newborns (say under 4 months) should be kept out of crowded places if at all possible, and yes, this includes some well baby visits. I do not think the number of WBV our society does is necessary. Where is the evidence they have to be so so often? I think carefully scheduled, but ultimately less visits, might be fine.



(This might just be an "agree to disagree" area)
Aw, Kathy, I think the world of you, and usually I agree with you, but, well, not this time (except that we might have to agree to disagree)!

First of all, how on earth do you think moms--or dad's who are primary caretakers, for that matter-- should keep newborns out of crowded places for 4 months? Who is going to do the grocery shopping and take older siblings to their activities?

I think this is a situation that, for many moms, is very different from your experience.

Second of all, which well baby check ups do you think can be cut? Not any during the first 2 months--that's when breastfeeding is getting established, and when a baby is at risk of dehydration and other complications if breastfeeding is not going well, and that is when heart murmurs first become apparent (7-8 weeks). And 4 months and on is when development really takes off. It doesn't make sense to assume that the mom can properly assess her baby for medical issues, unless she's a trained pediatric specialist.
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#21 of 43 Old 06-23-2014, 06:10 AM
 
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When we were still seeing our original pediatrician, wait time was something like 40 mins with actual visit being under 5 mins. Yep, less than 5mins was the clocked time for our last visit there and it involved more entering in our "delinquent" vax status in her laptop than anything else. Caught a nasty cold (DD and I) 3 days before xmas by sitting in that waiting room! Our ND however encourages people to stay home and call her when sick and the waiting room NEVER has anyone in it!

I think WBV's have merit but I also think that no one knows my child like I do and I've caught things that the ped has missed because I'm very aware of my child.
Actually well visit to an office are so American! Other countries (even Western ones!) don't see the value and DO see the risk - thus there is in home visits! Many think our system in the states is simply CRAZY! Still it's new, and we somehow made it as a people without them for centuries.
5 minutes is quite the norm, like I stated up thread, stuff is missed yet no one seems to address that, it's quite real and does happen. Even with going to each and every well check things are over looked all the time.

Many people are able to keep newborns out of the public for the first few months, it's called sacrifice and priorities.
One caregiver does the shopping the other (MOM) stays put. One does not do mommy & me groups for infants. Newborn care (Family leave) is designed for a parent to not only bond but to actually care for a child and not be taking the child in public. My DH used up vacation time plus what was allowed just for that reason, so he could do the running around and I stayed up. Others do plan and do save up to take additional time off.
Relying on others to do out of home tasks. Many counties the mother simply stays put with the child (Western and 3rd world do this quite the norm, not the exception). Others make meals and the mother and child stay put...more weeks and months. Many times the 1st birthday party or other ceremony months after the child is born is the first time family and friends actually see the child. children are kept at home and under wraps so to speak.



Many Peds also have two waiting room. My Ped almost 30 years ago would not allow newborn in unless an extreme emergency thought out the day, well visits were the 1st all other apts were after 10AM and again he had separate room for waiting and well checks, more and more are doing this but when other counties do in home care vs our system, they are spending more time and actually having far better care because they actually spend the time to talk & listen to the new mother.
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#22 of 43 Old 06-23-2014, 10:53 PM
 
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For some families, it puts enormous stress on everyone to have mom and baby under what amounts to be house arrest for months, especially when there are other children involved. In the US, the necessary support systems simply don't exist. Dads can't manage a full-time job, and taking siblings to their classes unless they have paternity leave, which most companies lack. Many of us live in different states than our own parents and siblings; by European standards, this is like living in a different country from your parents in terms of miles. Most jobs today involve far more than 40 hours per week; husbands with stay-at-home wives tend to work longer hours to make up for the missed salary.

And let's not forget that many moms work outside the home; many must return to work after only 12 weeks or less, and many must rely on daycare. Moms living in big cities have no choice but to face crowds whenever they leave their homes.

I think we should refrain from determining what someone else should or shouldn't sacrifice.
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#23 of 43 Old 06-23-2014, 10:55 PM
 
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Actually well visit to an office are so American! Other countries (even Western ones!) don't see the value and DO see the risk - thus there is in home visits! Many think our system in the states is simply CRAZY! Still it's new, and we somehow made it as a people without them for centuries.
5 minutes is quite the norm, like I stated up thread, stuff is missed yet no one seems to address that, it's quite real and does happen. Even with going to each and every well check things are over looked all the time.

Many people are able to keep newborns out of the public for the first few months, it's called sacrifice and priorities.
One caregiver does the shopping the other (MOM) stays put. One does not do mommy & me groups for infants. Newborn care (Family leave) is designed for a parent to not only bond but to actually care for a child and not be taking the child in public. My DH used up vacation time plus what was allowed just for that reason, so he could do the running around and I stayed up. Others do plan and do save up to take additional time off.
Relying on others to do out of home tasks. Many counties the mother simply stays put with the child (Western and 3rd world do this quite the norm, not the exception). Others make meals and the mother and child stay put...more weeks and months. Many times the 1st birthday party or other ceremony months after the child is born is the first time family and friends actually see the child. children are kept at home and under wraps so to speak.



Many Peds also have two waiting room. My Ped almost 30 years ago would not allow newborn in unless an extreme emergency thought out the day, well visits were the 1st all other apts were after 10PM and again he had separate room for waiting and well checks, more and more are doing this but when other counties do in home care vs our system, they are spending more time and actually having far better care because they actually spend the time to talk & listen to the new mother.
All other appointments after 10 pm? Seriously?
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#24 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 05:01 AM
 
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In my section of the country many doctors, not just Peds only see NEW patients in the afternoons, after a long waiting period.

Even with Vets, unless you pay for an extra service you don't get early appointments. It's quite standard with Ped to have early apts only for newborns/well visits. Frankly, people like it and it's in demand.

I know of people that have heart mummers missed for decades and only found on a fluke by a non- regular doctor. Mistakes happen even if you make every visit. If one wants to go to each and every visit, to each their own! We hear quite often in the news stories of high school athletes that drop dead from heart issues, they had physical prior to playing the supports and things simply get missed. I know many of women who have had breast issues missed after faithfully going every year of the date - stuff happen NO MATTER THE AGE.

With the exception of the US, most of the Western world, EU and even 3rd world countries don't act like people do here in the US regarding infant checks. The US remains the hold out on mother/parent newborn care/postnatal in-home care. With the changing demography here IMO it's just a matter of time for the US to change to. I have seen massive changes between my two births and not just the leave act. Many here do as they do in other countries, regardless of how many children they have. Many countries do ante/postnatal care in home and each country does it a bit differently but there have been many studies that are starting to come out showing the benefits to postpartum depression and the positive effect these services are having.


Things here in the US clearly are changing (and for the better IMO) and we should be supportive of those who are raising to the challenge! With the multi cultural ethnics diversity I have in my area perhaps that is why I see more and more mom's staying put, family coming from overseas to take care of the mom (for months) and community health workers staring to go into the home. Doctors are meeting the needs of certain communities too, they are use to it in their culture and are bringing it here. My Ped was not raised in the US and was 25+ years ago as admit as he was when our DS was born 6 years ago - infants have NO need for socialization- stay put for their health and the mom's, he stress it and accommodates for it.
http://www.babyzone.com/mom/postpart...tum-care_68591



In some ancient cultures such as China, India, Thailand, and Arabia, it is a time-honored tradition for new mothers to spend the first 40 days after childbirth in seclusion or confinement. This practice helps the mother get the rest she needs so that she feels energized when it is time to resume normal activities.

These cultures also believe the newborn is tender and needs to be protected. Family and friends step forward to relieve the new mother of household chores such as cooking, cleaning, shopping, and babysitting so that she has time to care for her little one. Here are just a couple examples of traditional postpartum care in cultures where new mothers are honored and given special attention.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/ar...practices.html changes to mother care are going to result in changes to newborn care as well, changing demography push these changes



Taximom5, it's quite clear you disagree here with what others that have posted. You have made your views crystal clear, this is a SUPPORT section and you don't come off as supportive at all instead it appears berating of choices and sacrifices others are making. Is this behavior necessary?


ETA- Seriously?

Really is this is not odd one bit! My Ped makes hospitable round prior to the office opening (I know because I had to deal with him in the hospitable and he was early because of discharges) the office open between 8-30 & 9, so it's ONE little hour give or take to see well/physical visits, hardly outrageous and much appreciated too.

 

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Last edited by serenbat; 06-24-2014 at 06:25 AM.
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#25 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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For some families, it puts enormous stress on everyone to have mom and baby under what amounts to be house arrest for months, especially when there are other children involved.

I think we should refrain from determining what someone else should or shouldn't sacrifice.
It isn't quite house arrest. All newborns can go for a walk outside, for example. Less crowded activities where fewer sick people are likely to be present is also fine - such as visiting family. I know people can be contagious before they show symptoms - but still, some activites are riskier than others.

I do not doubt it put strain on families to reduce outside activity, but I think it is worth it, in terms of disease prevention.

Bringing it back around to vaccine, and your last line. I have no issues with peoples right to bring their infant out - oh, I think it is unwise for newborns to be in crowded places - but it is their baby, their life and their call. I try not to judge strangers who are out with newborns as I do not know the circumstances.

That being said and in general: I will not be told to vaccinate for others people babies when they place their desire to go to with a newborn above my desire not to have my kids vaccinated. It is hard to take a person who talks of "protecting babies" seriously when they will not do one of the most basic protective things - like avoidance of high risk situations.

I do understand that some of this "bringing newborns into crowded places" is very hard to avoid. Mat leaves in some countries suck - and babies do end up in daycare, for example, very early. I am 100% in favour of good mat. leave policies.

That being said, not all of it comes down to necessity and some bringing out of newborns comes down to choice. I think lots of women very much want to be able to go out - they get cabin fever or feel the need to prove that "the baby has not changed them."
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#26 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 06:47 AM
 
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To add to Kathy's excellent points, well checks in other countries are not tied to the vaccines like they are in the US and often last longer in duration and cover more care/milestones vs heavy focus on vaccine administration.

Some countries vaccines are not even administrated in the same setting and are done in different facilities.

I have posted prior, my Ped requires proof that your insurance actually covers vaccines and his office doesn't even carry all vaccines, thus you must get them at WIC or the Heath dept. so that time is actually spent on checking the child.

 

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#27 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 07:19 AM
 
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kathy, I agree with your "in generals," but I do think that the first part of your last post is not reflective of the reality of most lives in the US today.

It IS house arrest if you can't go to WalMart for all the things you didn't realize you'd need with a new baby (I remember being stunned by how quickly we went through laundry detergent, for example) or to the grocery for the ingredients you forgot you'd need for dinner or to the Apple Store to fix your computer or your doctor or to your older children's activities (you didn't address that--are you going to punish the older children for having an infant sibling by barring them from their activities? Or even to Target or Goodwill to buy some new clothes to fit your changing figure (my body changed nursing bra sizes and pants sizes at a ridiculous pace, and found ill-fitting clothes to be very uncomfortable). It's just house arrest with an exercise yard if you can't do all that. And I strongly disagree with anyone who says that you should not bring your nursing baby with you.

I don't think you understand what life is like for those who work outside the home, or for those whose husbands do not get off work in time to go to whatever store. It's NOT AT ALL a question of cabin fever for most moms; it's a question of being able to go outside the home to get whatever needs to be done, DONE.

I think the moms who have cabin fever are experiencing a completely different issue. Totally unscientific observation: every mom I know personally who complained about cabin fever was a formula-feeder. Their babies slept more, fed FAR less often (every 4 hours as opposed to every 30-120 minutes), and cried more when they were awake. And I think from my own experience that bottle-feeding has one hell of an effect on bonding with your baby (had to formula-feed first child for 5 days, due to pre-eclampsia meds interfering with milk production, so I'm speaking from experience here).

Most men are NOT offered paternity leave, and some cannot even choose vacation time. Some don't HAVE vacation time. Some work two jobs to make up for their wives' lost salary during maternity leave. Some work two jobs or extra hours if their wives are SAHMs.

We were lucky that our first child was born during my husband's vacation time, but our others were not; he took the morning they were born off, and that was it. He took over cleaning, and home maintenance for the first few weeks, but he could only cook when he was home! And he couldn't manage all the shopping, and he had to work when our older kids had their activities. Our oldest had various therapies (speech, OT, etc) on top of preschool and "normal" activities.

If you think that's about cabin fever or needing to prove that the baby hasn't "changed" mom, you're just not seeing the real picture.

And I'm not blaming you for that--it's hard to see the real picture for others when it differs so greatly from your own experience. I'm trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) to give you a glimpse of what it's like for others.

Saying that going out in the community with your infant is a "choice" and that it's not a house arrest to stay home is pretty much the same thing as saying that sending your child to school is a choice that should hinge on vaccine status, and that you should keep an unvaccinated child at home, it's not house arrest to keep them from activities, etc.
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#28 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Saying that going out in the community with your infant is a "choice" and that it's not a house arrest to stay home is pretty much the same thing as saying that sending your child to school is a choice that should hinge on vaccine status, and that you should keep an unvaccinated child at home, it's not house arrest to keep them from activities, etc.
Gotta fly - going to a movie (no infant in tow, lol)

The major difference is early infancy lasts 4 months or so, school last up until 18 years. Some kids really want or need to go to school - no baby needs to go to Walmart.

I do not think the comparison holds.

I do think it is reasonable to put life on hold for the first few months. If you (general you) don't that is your call - just know it comes with risks and do not try and insist I vaccinate when you will not do the most basic of protective measures.
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#29 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 07:37 AM
 
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Men are equal and eligible for the Family Leave Act - http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/benefits-leave/fmla.htm

Employees are eligible for leave if they have worked for their employer at least 12 months, at least 1,250 hours over the past 12 months, and work at a location where the company employs 50 or more employees within 75 miles. Whether an employee has worked the minimum 1,250 hours of service is determined according to FLSA principles for determining compensable hours or work.

In addition states also have their own form and did prior to the Federal Act.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs28f.pdf Both mothers and fathers have the same right to take FMLA leave for the birth of a child.

 

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#30 of 43 Old 06-24-2014, 07:52 AM
 
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Serenbat, family leave is unpaid and only applies to those who work for companies of over 50 employees, and who have worked over 1250 hours, over 12 consecutive months.
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Last edited by Taximom5; 06-25-2014 at 02:48 PM. Reason: edited to correct error
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