non vaxed 4 yr old may need tetanus shot :( - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-09-2014, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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non vaxed 4 yr old may need tetanus shot :(

wwyd I posted this in childhood health but am not getting many responses. My 4 yr old is totally non vaxed. yesterday his babysitter let him step on a thumbtack that had rust on it I am so mad and sad. I am bringing him to the doctor this afternoon. I called and they said yes get a tetanus shot. I actually am bringing him to a different doctor than I spoke to ( long confusing story) but I have to decide in a few hours if my non vax kid will get a tetanus shot. I Am so sad about it.

The tack did not go straight in- I guess it was kind of a scrape with a small puncture. It was at the pool.

WWYD? Everyone irl I spoke to says get the shot. please advise,
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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A tack at a pool? It is probbly fine. Do you know if it bled?

Truthfully, very littleworries me with regard to tetanus. A pucture wound from a farm field that did not bleed might, but that is it. Tetanus is so very rare, and always has been. The highest occurence rate I have ever seen was 1/250 000 and that was in the pre-vaccine era when more people still lived on farms (relevent as tetanus comes from animal fecal matter - usually farm animals).

The thing about rusty nails is mostly myth. Rusty nails are often found outside (where you are more likely to find tetanus) and rust has grooves that can hide tetanus spores - but rust in itself has nothing to do with tetanus.

Tetanus is more common in the elderly and drug users, and in compromised skin (such as frost-bite, gangrene, etc).

In any event, I personally would not bring a child to the doctor from stepping on a tack at the pool, nor would I get a tetanus shot over it.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 07-09-2014, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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it was outside- I guess in a small patch of grass surrounding concrete by the town pool.

The babysitter said it looked slightly red- maybe a little blood a drop or two but she couldn't rememebr she said it was mostly a scrape- it looks like asmall puncture and two small scrapes.

I am totally freaked out because everyone is telling me yes get the tetanus shot and I know the doctor will too---- but I am terrified of vaxing my ds. I am just so scared of the side effects.


I just do not know what to do.

Would you guys do the shot or not?

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Old 07-09-2014, 10:12 AM
 
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Here is the link to tetanus archives on mothering:
http://www.mothering.com/forum/112-d...ussis-tetanus/

I liked this article on tetanus:
http://preventdisease.com/news/13/05...Location.shtml

I hope others can come along and reassure you that the wound does not sound like a high tetanus risk.

If you are not reassured you can always bring him to the doctor. If the doctor offer TIG (immuno globulin) it means the doctor actually is worreid. If the doctor only offers a tetanus shot - the doctor is not worried and is simply using the opportunity to catch your son up on vaccination. TIG is the protocal for worrisome injuries in an unvaxxed person.

(ETA: I edited my last post while you were writing. I did add that I would not do the shot for the wound you describe. I probably wouldn't go to the doctor over it at all - kids get injuries, and it sounds minor)

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 07-09-2014, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks he has an appointment today in a few hours. I am so sad about it all. I know kids get injuries- he is my only child and I am very overprotective and was hopig to keep him totally non vaxed. But at the same time tetanus is very scary and there was rust on the tack- I have no gut instinct about what to do.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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any more thoughts? we see the doctor in a little over an hour. The wound is now tiny and almost all the way closed up- it was quite small. I hate to do a vax for something that really doesn't need it . . . but at the same time I hat eto put my ds at risk for tetanus? Can someone else please give me advice??
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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You are in a state of fear and panic, so my best advice is to try and calm down. There is no way a doctor would give TIG for a scrape because it is not needed, so they will push the DTaP on you for alternative reasons. Did you read the links Kathy posted? Did they not reassure you?

Personally, if it were my child I would not be in the least bit concerned they were going to get tetanus. My unvaccinated kids (16 and 14) have had plenty of scrapes and cuts in their lives, I can't say I have given tetanus a nano second of thought.

Bottom line in my opinion, your DS does not need a tetanus shot.

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Old 07-09-2014, 03:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Snapdragon View Post
and there was rust on the tack.
As Kathymuggle mentioned above, rust of itself is not a tetanus issue. We talk about the classic tetanus injury being from a "rusty nail" because they are an object which one might expect to find in the dirt on a farm or around horses (horse shoe nail) which can harbour tetanus spores *and* can cause a deep puncture wound if stepped on.

I have read (and commented on) both your threads and I actually think you probably should get the tetanus vaccine for your son. Not because I think he is at high risk for tetanus but because I don't think all this misery and stress over every minor injury is worth it. For you or your son or anyone else who cares for him.

Full disclosure: we are sel/del rather than non-vax.
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Old 07-09-2014, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hi,
I wasn't able to read any of the links because right now I have a slow internet connection that makes it hard to open up links.

So I took him to the doctor today. It was actually my doctor and not his pedi- because of some weird insurance thing to be sorted out in the future.

My doctor is pro vax. She said the wound looked very low probabilty for tetanus because it is not deep and is clean.

she said even if I got the tetanus vax today it would not help if he had gotten it yesterday. She said it takes a fw weeks to take effect and works for future times.

She said if someone does get tetanus they have to get really painful shots in the belly- but that that is the only option, so even getting the tetanus vax would not help the past exposure.

So I don't know what will be with what has happened so far. You all don't need to point out my excessive worrying about it- I am well aware of it and working on it, it is one of my main tenants I am working on in many ways both as a person and as a parent.

She also said she only had the combo tetanus vax with other vax's in it. She said a natropathic place might have the plain tetanus.

So I just hope my little guy is totaly fine right now. And as for the future I am strongly now considering getting him the plain tetanus vax.
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Old 07-09-2014, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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so I was inally able to open some of those links and look at some of those other threads about this.
But I don't have much energy to read too much.So in general, what is your stance on the tetanus shot? useful or not?
how real of a threat is tetanus? and how much does the tetanus shot prevent it? I need to know straight facts from edcated non vaxrs so I have perspective.
My ds does actually spend a good amount of time on a farm- there are a few animals there butmostly veggie farm- so I don't know if that increases my need to give him the tetanus vax? ( a family member has a working farm that ds spends a lot of time with them at, helpign out and hanging out an also on tractors).I am new to all this because I had thought I would give no vax;s ever and now am just on the fence about tetanus. Please, any clear and simple answers would be good. thanks!
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:33 AM
 
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I have 6 kids (one still baking ;P) and I stopped vaxing when my first got some of her shots and actually got sick from them(She got chicken pox from the shot). I then researched all about vaxes and the sicknesses they are supposed to prevent and was very reassured that I was making the right decision to stop vax and not vax the rest of my children. My kids play VERY rough and between the 5 of them it is almost a daily thing with having cuts and scrapes....everything from busting their head open on a cart in the grocery store to getting hit in the head with a claw side of a hammer from a younger sibling. I don't worry about it.

I never had the tetanus shot and was a huge tom boy. I climbed trees (and fell out of trees) and ran around bare foot outside constantly. I used to go to work with my dad who worked in construction and excavation (including working on septic and sewer systems). I got hurt in a lot of dirty environments. I have stepped on knives, had my wrist slit by a tool in dirty water and countless other "severe" injuries....and I had no issues with tetanus.....or even a basic infection! And my dad wasn't the type to take me to the dr.....he would just put a bandaid on it if he had one....or most of the time just hand me a dirty rag to apply pressure to it. I think his laid back attitude is where I got my laid back parenting style. =S
My brother actually had the classic "rusty nail scenario"....my dad brought home a lot of the scrap wood he would get from old houses he would demolish. Most of the time it ended up just piled around our property. We had a make shift basketball hoop attached to a tree. While playing bball, my brother stumbled while getting the ball and stepped on an old rusty nail that was attached to a scrap board. It went very deep. My mom just kept it clean and we didn't have any issue. My other brother got a kick stand through his leg while jumping a dirt pile on a dirt bike....again...no dr intervention...just basic care. And all of this took place in a rural area with cows, chickens,quail and the occasional pig around.
ooo I forgot the dirt bike wreck that landed me and my brother in a barb wire fence and on sharp rocks right next to the pasture full of cows =D And we are all alive and kickin'....we just have few scars that tell an exciting story ;P I never even got stitches for anything growing up! If it was a gaping wound, we would just put a butterfly bandage on it and keep it clean. I say all of that to say that in MOST instances, tetanus is not going to be an issue. =)

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Old 07-10-2014, 08:07 AM
 
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I have read you can cure many diseases with vitamin C, specifically intravenous vitamin C. There is even a report on Pubmed, which states:
"In the children aged 1 to 12 years (n = 62), vitamin C treatment was associated with a 100% reduction in tetanus mortality (95% confidence interval from -100% to -94%). In people aged 13 to 30 years (n = 55), vitamin C treatment was associated with a 45% reduction in tetanus mortality"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18425960

Sounds great, but this was with only 1 gram per day, which is way too low for a serious condition. Other doctors have had success using much larger doses of C, so if you want to know how well the C cure works, you can read about doctors who used appropriate doses.
http://www.doctoryourself.com/vitaminc.html

My DD is not vaccinated, and she is a little tomboy too. My son was vaccinated until age 5, but is in "need" of a new booster, so they say. We have chickens, and DD plays with them often. I wanted to learn what to do if there was ever a threat of tetanus or other illnesses, and the vitamin C therapy is comforting to know. Of course, the tough part is finding a doctor who will use the therapy. I suggest you research doctors nearby who is experienced with vitamin therapy, because it can be useful for many illnesses.

This man was about to be taken off life support, and was allowed to try iv vitamin C as a last resort. He recovered, when the doctors had given up on him and his family took charge. http://www.3news.co.nz/Living-Proof-...8/Default.aspx

 
 
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:14 AM
 
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hi,
I wasn't able to read any of the links because right now I have a slow internet connection that makes it hard to open up links.

So I took him to the doctor today. It was actually my doctor and not his pedi- because of some weird insurance thing to be sorted out in the future.

My doctor is pro vax. She said the wound looked very low probabilty for tetanus because it is not deep and is clean.

she said even if I got the tetanus vax today it would not help if he had gotten it yesterday. She said it takes a fw weeks to take effect and works for future times.

She said if someone does get tetanus they have to get really painful shots in the belly- but that that is the only option, so even getting the tetanus vax would not help the past exposure.

So I don't know what will be with what has happened so far. You all don't need to point out my excessive worrying about it- I am well aware of it and working on it, it is one of my main tenants I am working on in many ways both as a person and as a parent.

She also said she only had the combo tetanus vax with other vax's in it. She said a natropathic place might have the plain tetanus.

So I just hope my little guy is totaly fine right now. And as for the future I am strongly now considering getting him the plain tetanus vax.
Bolded mine....um, I think you may want to rethink using this doc, because she may be referring to the old rabies vax that was used where it was multiple in the stomach area...but they don't even use that anymore for rabies, it's the thigh and maybe near the bite site and I've never heard of TIG being administered that way - the preferred location is the thigh or upper arm where there is thick muscular tissue. Location and type of injection should be something all docs are aware of regardless of how infrequent they may administer them.

All that said, the wound has healed and is probably fine. In any event all the chlorine in the pool would have cleaned it out and would not have worried me in the least bit.
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:52 AM
 
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Bolded mine....um, I think you may want to rethink using this doc, because she may be referring to the old rabies vax that was used where it was multiple in the stomach area...but they don't even use that anymore for rabies, it's the thigh and maybe near the bite site and I've never heard of TIG being administered that way - the preferred location is the thigh or upper arm where there is thick muscular tissue. Location and type of injection should be something all docs are aware of regardless of how infrequent they may administer them.
The belly shot thing did have me scratching my head. I assumed she was talking about something other than TIG but couldn't think what it would have been. One of my dd has received the TIG after an injury and it was given in the thigh.
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I misspoke- I don't think she actually calld it a shot in the belly but rather a series of painful injections. Not sure where I got thebelly ting from= I think my mil said it or something. wasnt thinking straight when I typed that on that detail.
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:06 PM
 
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OP, in this thread and your other related thread, I saw nothing that addresses IMO a greater issues- infection.

No vaccine will help prevent that.

I would not have someone care for my child that did not know wound care, at least basic until you could properly threat your child.

To me given the numerous problems with antibiotics, infection is what should be the first concern, not tetanus.

If you do go with the "tetanus" vaccine know you can't get it without getting other vaccines because it is only as a combo and please don't think that takes care of cuts, scrapes etc. infection is your big worry!

 

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Old 07-10-2014, 08:20 PM
 
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http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/?s...khanych%2C+PhD

TETANUS SHOT: HOW DO WE KNOW THAT IT WORKS? ~ By Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD

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Posted on July 10, 2014 | No Comments
The cure for tetanus, a life-threatening and often deadly disease, has been sought from the very inception of the modern field of Immunology. The original horse anti-serum treatment of [...]
Continue Reading...
- See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/?s....hmZ3QauD.dpuf
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Old 07-12-2014, 12:29 AM
 
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not to split hairs..but tetanus actually is an infection.... but I know what you mean =S


From what I have read people with tetanus will be given a vaccine along with other treatment ... which would be TIG or equine antitoxin. Not that it says it but I assume that the VAX is for future prevention, not fixing current situation.
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Old 07-12-2014, 04:27 AM
 
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not to split hairs..but tetanus actually is an infection.... but I know what you mean =S


From what I have read people with tetanus will be given a vaccine along with other treatment ... which would be TIG or equine antitoxin. Not that it says it but I assume that the VAX is for future prevention, not fixing current situation.
You got it! most only think you get tetanus. Ute it's the other nasties that no vaccine covers that are most common!!

 

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Old 07-31-2014, 08:02 AM
 
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To TIG or not to TIG?

Hi there - I haven't been on the forum for a long time and it's good to be back. Thanks so much for this discussion. My soon to be 9 year old daughter, completely non-vaxxed, had a board with a rusty nail dropped on her head day before yesterday while making a fort in an wrecked shed deep in the blackberries. The board had a few rusty nails in it and the head of a big one hit and cut her scalp. It bled a lot, being a scalp wound (yay in this case!) and as far as I could tell wasn't very deep. Definitely NOT a puncture wound. The board had been part of the side of the shed and the nail hadn't been in the dirt, at least not for years and years. Chickens may have lived there but again, not for many years.

But still, rusty nail and all.....

I've been thinking about doing the tetanus series for her and the booster for me for awhile - struggling with the decision of course. We are able to get the single tetanus vaccine in our area - no Dtap for my girl! We do live in the country on an old property with all kinds of rusty wire, nails, etc. I love that she's out in the woods building forts! We're getting chickens and goats and already have a cat and a dog and lots and lots of wildlife. So plenty of potential for contact with animal feces. So I thought yesterday was as good a time as ever...didn't know about TIG and thought I could just get her a tetanus shot and myself a booster and that would be that. Her first shot did not, let's say, go well. She freaked. We finally got it done but it was not pretty. No vaccine reaction evident but we were both pretty wrung out. And the doc pressured me heavily to go get the TIG for her. She said it would be expensive and we'd probably need to go to an ER because it's so unusual to not have the tetanus series that they don't stock it (to her credit, her only dig at me, the non-vaxx mama).

So I lay awake most of the night wondering what to do. I'm an acupuncturist - I treat kids. I treat pertussis, I treat chicken pox - I've even treated measles. I do not know how to treat tetanus. But I don't want to succumb to fear - if I were to do that I would have fully vaccinated her long ago.
OK, I'm rambling. If you've stuck with me this far I really appreciate it. Please comment - I could use some words of wisdom.
Blessings.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:42 AM
 
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And the doc pressured me heavily to go get the TIG for her. She said it would be expensive and we'd probably need to go to an ER because it's so unusual to not have the tetanus series that they don't stock it.
Not to knock your doc, but this is more of a fear tactic than anything. TIG isn't regularly available anywhere. It's a special order that the prescribing doc has to be fairly certain of a tetanus risk to even obtain it. There was an older thread floating around about tetanus that had a link about this in it. If vaccine status is unknown or under 3 doses of a DTaP type vax, they will often recommend TIG as a precaution, but still they have to get it and there are only a few places that make it.
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