Inclined NOT to vaccinate... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 23 Old 07-21-2014, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Inclined NOT to vaccinate...

I'm due with my very first in December, and my instincts are to NOT vaccinate. We have a good friend who was never vaccinated and he is in extremely good health.

Both JB and I were vaccinated.. But also my mother fed me almost exclusively formula, I was barely breastfed.. While his mother breastfed him for at least a year, until she weaned him on to solid foods. JB is MUCH healthier than I am in every way. He NEVER goes to the doctor.. And although I avoid doctors like the plague, I do get ill much more often, even if it is just small things. Also my teeth are not in very good condition despite my meticulous care, but that could be related to the fact that my mother (she even admits) only got calcium from milkshakes during her pregnancy.. (Instead of bone broth, yogurt, cheese, broccoli.. Healthy things).

It seems to me that a healthy diet of mother and child, breast feeding, and NOT vaccinating is the way to go. I just wanted to consult others to see what their experiences are...
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#2 of 23 Old 07-21-2014, 11:46 PM
 
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I agree that healthy diet for mom and baby are definitely a first step to overall health. Good diet and care will be beneficial regardless of your decision to vaccinate so it's a great start! As for the vaccination I am forum crashing as I decided to go for selective/delayed vaccination. I live in one of the two states in the US that don't allow exemptions though. Well they allow medical but good luck getting one of those. I was only allowed to not vaccinate if my children never attended day care or school and while this is a preference it wasn't an option for us at the time. If it wasn't for that I'm pretty sure I would have just not vaccinated.

I suggest research on each vaccination individually. Look at what is in the vaccination, the disease it's for and the implications/risks of that disease, potential risks from the vaccination, when and why the vaccination is given, etc. I really enjoyed the information from Dr. Sears when I was researching. I'm sure there are some other resources around here the moms could suggest to help you in your research.

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#3 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have definitely considered delayed/selective vaccination! I've been sort of stalking the boards here and even just on these forums I find the information overwhelming! Haha so many decisions to make, but I consider them very important ones!

In case you're curious about my status: I'm Kate, I spend every miraculous day with my darling soul mate JB and we are expecting our first baby (boy!) ...
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#4 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 07:49 AM
 
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Your tooth health is likelier related to your genetics than the fact that your mom didn't drink enough broth in pregnancy. Hope you get regular cleanings!
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#5 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 07:57 AM
 
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I find the information overwhelming! Haha so many decisions to make, but I consider them very important ones!
Remember that you don't have to make the final decision on day one. I would start with Hep B since that is one often given at birth. If you are Hep. B negative (this is a standard first trimester blood work test for you) and you are not engaged in activities which put you at high risk for contracting Hep B then it is probably one you are going to want to skip altogether.
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#6 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 09:10 AM
 
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Reviewing the recommended shots in order can be helpful.

1) Get the CDC recommended schedule AND get your state's required schedule for school. Compare.
2) Start with the earliest shots recommended and work forward.
3) Research the illnesses first, including the likelihood of exposure during infancy.
4) Then research the vaccines, starting with the package inserts.
5) If you can afford to print stuff out, make a loose-leaf notebook with dividers. That way you can highlight important stuff.

At some point in this process it will come clear to you which way you are headed: following the schedule, going with delayed/selective, or skipping all vaccinations. When you reach that point you can change your approach to the research to fit your decision. For example, if you are skipping all vaccinations, your focus would be on diagnosing and treating childhood illnesses, not on selecting vaccines.
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#7 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you @Deborah that is really good advice!!

In case you're curious about my status: I'm Kate, I spend every miraculous day with my darling soul mate JB and we are expecting our first baby (boy!) ...
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#8 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 06:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
if you are skipping all vaccinations, your focus would be on diagnosing and treating childhood illnesses, not on selecting vaccines.
Great advice. Even if you decide to vaccinate, it is wise to learn how to diagnose and treat the illnesses, since vaccines can and do fail! All vaxxers should learn about treatment.

 
 
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#9 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Reviewing the recommended shots in order can be helpful.

1) Get the CDC recommended schedule AND get your state's required schedule for school. Compare.
2) Start with the earliest shots recommended and work forward.
3) Research the illnesses first, including the likelihood of exposure during infancy.
4) Then research the vaccines, starting with the package inserts.
5) If you can afford to print stuff out, make a loose-leaf notebook with dividers. That way you can highlight important stuff.

At some point in this process it will come clear to you which way you are headed: following the schedule, going with delayed/selective, or skipping all vaccinations. When you reach that point you can change your approach to the research to fit your decision. For example, if you are skipping all vaccinations, your focus would be on diagnosing and treating childhood illnesses, not on selecting vaccines.
This! And like the other pp you don't have to decide everything on day one. The fact that you are even looking is the biggest first step. Just take it one step/shot at a time until you decide what, if and when you would want to give any vaccinations. Each family has to asses the risks for their situation. You'll be fine mama! There are lots of resources out there just try your best to take it one shot at a time so you don't get overwhelmed.
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#10 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 07:28 PM
 
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How lucky your babe is that you're looking into this now!

I was a do-what-you're-told parent back in 2002 when my oldest was born. It wasn't until she was at least a year that I really thought any about vaccines. I'd a friend who was vehemently opposed but she was very religious & I thought it was a philosophical issue not a health, money, how the recommendations are made, etc problem. She stopped getting shots at about two years old & her two younger brothers have had none. And good thing to - they've both got more fragile systems than their sister. I know they'd be much sicker or worse had I not learned early enough. Scary stuff.

What are your breastfeeding plans? I've always said one of the things that makes me more comfortable not giving vaccines is that my children were nursed for long periods of time (way longer than western society dictates). I'd have to reevaluate things if my child were artificially fed since they would not be receiving what they were meant to & therefore wouldn't have an immune system that develops accordingly. There's lots of info here on MDC about that. The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding & So That's What They're For are both great books to learn about breastfeeding if you haven't read any or these yet.

Best wishes,
Sus
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#11 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 08:22 PM
 
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Breastfeeding is important and certainly helps.

However, my mother struggled with breastfeeding, back in the 40s and 50s when there was really no support available and didn't successfully nurse a baby until I came along and she only managed 4 months with me, then 11 months with my sister and I think 7 months with my little brother. None of us were vaccinated. In those days all of the terrible, deadly, frightening diseases were still running rampant through the population and we all had all of them, although if we had whooping cough it seems to have been asymptomatic--and we all survived. Five kids born, five still alive in their 50s and 60s. The big advantage of being born back then was that my mother had antibodies to pass along when we were born, so we had protection for the first crucial months. Thanks to vaccines these antibodies are no longer available, so breastfeeding is probably more important.
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#12 of 23 Old 07-22-2014, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all so much! You guys are great!

The more I research, the less I am inclined to vaccinate... But I AM looking into books on homeopathic remedies so that I am able to treat illnesses naturally if they develop.. Of course I care deeply about my child's health so I don't want to be reckless! My research is simply telling me that vaccinating is not the way to ensure my child's health. I plan on buying the books "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" by Robert S. Mendelsohn M.D. and "Natural Baby and Childcare: Practical Medical Advice and Holistic Wisdom for Raising Healthy Children" by Lauren Feder M.D. Before the baby comes, and I'll possibly collect a few more along the way.

I am following Nina Planck's (author of Real Food for Mother and Baby) real food diet, and I intend to breast feed for quite awhile, until he is only eating solid foods.

In case you're curious about my status: I'm Kate, I spend every miraculous day with my darling soul mate JB and we are expecting our first baby (boy!) ...
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#13 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 09:20 AM
 
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Good for you planning ahead! I started off with the intention of doing select/delayed, but became overwhelmed and rather than breaking it down shot by shot like deborah suggested, I was looking at the whole picture, managed to delay Hep B from in hospital, to the first well visit, but was basically cornered by the pediatrician into doing everything at 2mos. Be sure you really research pediatricians first, or even go the route of ND or at the very least family practitioner instead as they are much more open to alternative schedules.

DD suffered some pretty nasty vax reactions which prompted us to stop vaxxing her altogether. We switched to an ND and have slowly been working to heal her gut in hopes to eliminating some of her food issues and lingering rashes that all resulted following vaccination. Better to delay and go slowly than to be forced to jump right in and suffer the consequences of a reaction - you can always vax at a later date, but you can't take them back once they are done.
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#14 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 09:44 AM
 
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Breastfeeding is important and certainly helps.

However, my mother struggled with breastfeeding, back in the 40s and 50s when there was really no support available and didn't successfully nurse a baby until I came along and she only managed 4 months with me, then 11 months with my sister and I think 7 months with my little brother. None of us were vaccinated. In those days all of the terrible, deadly, frightening diseases were still running rampant through the population and we all had all of them, although if we had whooping cough it seems to have been asymptomatic--and we all survived. Five kids born, five still alive in their 50s and 60s. The big advantage of being born back then was that my mother had antibodies to pass along when we were born, so we had protection for the first crucial months. Thanks to vaccines these antibodies are no longer available, so breastfeeding is probably more important.
I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll try to refrain from responding beyond this post. IF I'm able, I'll start a new thread in "I'm Not Vaccinating," on people's thoughts on it's relevance to vaccination (something I've thought of doing for years but life).

While I'm glad you & your siblings did not seem to be effected by the duration or lack of breastfeeding you received, this is anecdotal & could be used in the opposite manner. "I was vaccinated & I'm fine!" My mother was artificially fed in 1949 & appears fine by all mainstream measures but she is not, produced two unhealthy children (neither of whom were breastfed either) and my children have lots of immune issues that can be traced back generations if you understand how the degradation of our guts happens over time (& can happen abruptly). My maternal grandmother also died of breast cancer in 1962, never having breastfed any of her three children, I believe (my mother remembers making artificial milk on the stove for my uncle who was younger than her, but I don't know anything about her older brother). We can not expect the human immune system to function as intended if it is not fed what it expects.

Please note that I didn't say I'd vaccinate if I wasn't breastfeeding, but that I'd have to reevaluate in light of lack of breastfeeding. These days, I'm inclined to think it'd be worse for a non-breastfed infant/child to be vaccinated, but that's just based on my mixing of what I've read in my head, not any research, etc.

Anyone else who is interested in this topic & is so inclined, feel free to start a thread on it where you deem appropriate if you get to it before me!

Sus
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#15 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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Mama, sorry! I know that is anecdotal and it went OT.
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#16 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 10:25 AM
 
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Many women in those days were given "dry-up shots" to inhibit lactation.

These injections were often doses of DES, diethylstilbestrol, which would explain why so many of them ended up with breast cancer later in life.

Oddly enough, lactation can be stunted simply by putting ice bags on the breasts after delivery, but then that is too simple. Most women were in the hospital for a week after delivery in those days, so it would have been a simple and less invasive practice to inhibit lactation.
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#17 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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(I don't mind the OT chatting at all, I'm open to all chatting! It IS all related in my opinion you're all so helpful!)

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#18 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I did not know about the dry up shots! Yikes..

My mother breastfed me for a few weeks and then she got mad at me because I wanted to suckle, then nap, then wake back up and suckle again, and she thought I was being manipulative!!!!! (I am still appalled by her telling me this) she was frustrated because she couldn't put me down (which is the WHOLE reason our species is made to breastfeed, because our babies are helpless without us and aren't supposed to be left alone, and they need to know their mother is close by).. So she called the nurse and asked to quit breast feeding cold turkey! She put ice on her breasts and stopped completely and put me on formula. it still hurts my feelings that my own mother was so so selfish, and I am now aware of why we do not have the connection that we should.
I will be so happy to snuggle with and hold and breastfeed my baby, I can't imagine feeling any other way.

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#19 of 23 Old 07-23-2014, 11:21 AM
 
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I breastfed my DD for three years, one month and she thought I was being selfish.

There is no pleasing some people! She has no cavities and a good immune system, so we did our best.

Do not be hard on your mom. I was pushed by well meaning older mothers to put my daughter on a schedule even though she was completely breastfed for eight months. Amateurs told me she had colic, was too skinny, and needed to be fed more. The fact is, she was normal. Few people know what a breastfed baby is like.

Find the LLLI group in your neighborhood. They are on facebook. You will find like minded mothers with resources and knowledge for your area. You will also find vast reserves of information for clothing, potty training, pediatricians, feeding, and playgroups there too.
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#20 of 23 Old 07-24-2014, 07:40 AM
 
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I nursed for about 21 months. I do remember, when my daughter was little, being pushed to nurse her on some sort of schedule. There was not a lot of support for breastfeeding in 1967, although it was better than the 40s and 50s when my mum was struggling.

My daughter was able to get help from a lactation consultant when she ran into problems which was a big help. I found my daughter's approach to breastfeeding interesting. She nursed on demand for the first few weeks and then gradually built a schedule for nursing and napping. As the babies got older and began to eat other foods she very gradually cut back on the nursing. The kids got used to having a snuggle and a nurse at certain times of day and did not expect to be nursed at any other time. My daughter thinks that life is easier with children if they have a routine and know what to expect and when to expect it. It does seem to work. They are happy kids and appreciate, I think, knowing what is expected. They know what chores they are supposed to do, and when, they know that table manners are part of eating dinner, they know that bed-times are non-negotiable, etc. They know that their parents are in charge.
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#21 of 23 Old 07-24-2014, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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@sassyfirechick it is good that you mentioned adverse reactions.. I hear and read so much about them that seems to be swept under the table by doctors who are proponents of vaccinations.
That's a major reason I'm considering starting out with a naturopathic doctor. Our friends just had their first child last October and they found an ND that they ADORE, so they've been recommending that path for us as well, as we are very similar people in our philosophies (parenting and otherwise). My midwife also recommends a naturopathic doctor even though she is a CNM. The only thing my midwife's practice has to administer at birth is the vitamin K shot... Do any of you have experience with this? From everything I have read so far it doesn't seem to be necessary for all newborns, just those deemed "high risk" like premies or c-section babies? But there are many warnings against this shot as well!! I don't think it would come up, as both my family and JBs family has a long history of healthy naturally birthed babies, but I am curious if anyone here has experience using or refusing the vitamin K shot when it was recommended for them?

.. @mama24-7 I am curious to know how long you breast fed

In case you're curious about my status: I'm Kate, I spend every miraculous day with my darling soul mate JB and we are expecting our first baby (boy!) ...
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#22 of 23 Old 07-24-2014, 10:55 AM
 
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Inclined NOT to vaccinate...

We refused the vitamin k shot and it was no big deal. If you're worried, you can load up on vitamin k before birth, so it will be well represented in your breast milk. (I believe it doesn't cross the placenta?)

It's not a "mandatory" shot by any stretch of the imagination. Just do your research, make a decision, express your wishes and make it happen.


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#23 of 23 Old 07-24-2014, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's good to hear! I've been craving lots of kale and pineapple smoothies so I'm sure I'll be plenty stocked up on vitamin k by the time baby arrives and I begin breastfeeding

In case you're curious about my status: I'm Kate, I spend every miraculous day with my darling soul mate JB and we are expecting our first baby (boy!) ...
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