S/O--is okay to lie? - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-11-2008, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is it okay to lie to an ER doc about your child's vax status. For instance, if you say "yes they are up to date" and it turns out it is WC or some other VPD, wouldnt they check with your regular doc and put 2 and 2 together and realize that they arent vaxed and call CPS for lying and medical neglect?

I have often thought about lying (never been to the ER, yet) so I was just curious as to what your opinions are.

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Old 06-11-2008, 11:07 PM
 
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I never used to -- but now I do. It makes my life easier, and it doesn't affect their care, IMO.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:14 PM
 
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i dont have a problem lying to medical doctors. they lie all the time to parents about vaccinations.

you cant get arrested for lying to a dr...its not a crime or something....and its not medical neglect to not vaccinate....but i have heard enough horror ER stories to know that if i ever end up there w/ my completely non vaxed kids, i will simply state "they are up to date". and thats all i will say. its actually true..they are up to date on my schedule..which is none.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:23 PM
 
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I've been asked on every ER visit if the twins are up-to-date. I very authoritatively say, "No. We have religious objections" or "No. We haven't vaccinated for religious reasons." They have never flinched and simply noted religious objection on the intake form.

I'd be interested in hearing what others experiences have been.

Even at public schools, I simply say "we haven't vaccinated for religious reasons" without any difficulties. I do say it authoritatively, non-defensively.

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Old 06-11-2008, 11:58 PM
 
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i dont have a problem lying to medical doctors. they lie all the time to parents about vaccinations.

you cant get arrested for lying to a dr...its not a crime or something....and its not medical neglect to not vaccinate....but i have heard enough horror ER stories to know that if i ever end up there w/ my completely non vaxed kids, i will simply state "they are up to date". and thats all i will say. its actually true..they are up to date on my schedule..which is none.
I love this response! My next question to the doc would be, "are you?"
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:43 AM
 
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I've been asked on every ER visit if the twins are up-to-date. I very authoritatively say, "No. We have religious objections" or "No. We haven't vaccinated for religious reasons." They have never flinched and simply noted religious objection on the intake form.

I'd be interested in hearing what others experiences have been.

Even at public schools, I simply say "we haven't vaccinated for religious reasons" without any difficulties. I do say it authoritatively, non-defensively.

Purple Cat
This. We haven't been to the ER yet but this is our stance and approach. I don't want to lie to the docs if it could harm my son.
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.

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Old 06-12-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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If I'm going for an illness that one know can figure out, I won't lie. If we are going to the ER for a broken bone or something else, I'll carefully omit some things without technically lying. I live in a very country, pro vax area and I don't want trouble if it's not necessary to know.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:59 PM
 
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If I'm going for an illness that one know can figure out, I won't lie. If we are going to the ER for a broken bone or something else, I'll carefully omit some things without technically lying. I live in a very country, pro vax area and I don't want trouble if it's not necessary to know.
This. It's a sticky slope...who wants to lie? At the same time, who wants to be fighting over vaxes with a broken bone or a deep cut or whatever? Then, what if it is a VAD? Sometimes they aren't easy to diagnose on your own, but if you say they are up-to-date then they may not test for it. I don't have a one-size answer, it just depends on the situation.

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Old 06-12-2008, 05:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ophelia View Post
I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.
But since the docs know (or should know) that no vax is 100% (and some have pretty high failure rates) wouldn't they know to check for these things anyway?
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Old 06-13-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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We would say 'Yes, they are up to date' because they are up to date on our schedule of none, as pp said.

They will still check for the same things because most cases of these 'vaccine preventable illnesses' are actually among vaccinated children, not non-vaxed children.

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Old 06-13-2008, 11:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ophelia View Post
I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.
We'd like to think, as moms, that doctors would check for illnesses, hmm? They see too many well children and trust vaccines too much to know the difference between the illnesses vaccines are supposed to prevent and whatever they'd like to think.

I have had experience with this, exactly, which was crazy-making. I took my sons, 5 and 3, into the doctor, with paroxysmal coughs with symptoms that looked just like whooping cough (pertussis) this spring, which is the season for pertussis. I told the doctor all about their symptoms, who looked them over, knew they were unvaccinated and didn't address my concerns about the pertussis.

A week later, my baby started having the same symptoms, and since I had done my research, I knew that there was a chance that if it was pertussis, a course of antibiotics at the beginning of symptoms could reduce the severity or duration of symptoms for him.

Of course, the doctor treated me like a mindless gnat/hysterical mother, and ignored me when I mentioned my concerns. Well, I asked for a culture to check for the illness anyway. Which he did, knowing full well (later we learned this in the hospital from the therapists who did my son's breathing treatments) that he needed to take the sputum sample with deeper suction, not just a swab. He was trying to pacify me. We went home without a prescription. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia as a complication about two weeks after that visit, of what the doctor NOW BELIEVES to be, pertussis. He decided to test him in the hospital, which was of course too late to get the proper results. This doctor completely discounted my ability to read and think and couldn't bring himself to listen to a mother who knows her children, and it cost us $30,000 and perhaps an illness my baby son could have avoided, the pneumonia. Which he kicked me out of his practice b/c he blamed me for not vaccinating my son.

Doctors simply think pertussis doesn't exist because there are vaccines. It doesn't matter whether your child is vaxed or not. Even if it's classic case of the illness, there is so much misdiagnosing, I am convinced of this from my experience.

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Old 06-13-2008, 11:44 PM
 
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I have never been asked in an ER or clinic about vaccinations, but I would not lie because I don't want vpds to be dismissed.

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Old 06-16-2008, 04:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ophelia View Post
I would not, because if they assume you have gotten a pertussis vax, they may not check for pertussis. If they assume you have gotten a menengitis vax, they would not likely check for menengitis, and so on. This just happened recently in another thread, it sounded like the doc was not going to check for some things if the child had been vaccinated.
Yes this was my response to this post initially but then I got to thinking on the flip side.....
Most doctors are so convinced that vaccinations are fool proof, what about vaxed kids who may come in with a vpd - would they dismiss the possibility that thay could have X simply because they were vaxed for it and 'couldnt possibly' have X disease() !! And then waste time looking for other things becuse they just cant accept that vaxes arent 100% effective!

Anyway, to the original question - yes I would tell him my non-vax status and I would also tell him, it was against my religious beliefs and that it was not up for discussion. Having said that though, I have never had to bring DD to the ER (Thank goodness) I mean when your little babe is sick do you really have the energy or the inclination to be arguing with doctors? so I can see why alot of parents would just say DC was vaxed just to save more stress and aggravation.
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Old 06-16-2008, 04:54 PM
 
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I would never lie about it. I'm proud of my well researched and thought-out decision.

I'm teaching my children that it's not ok to lie. What kind of example would I be?

Homeschooling mama of four fantastic kids and wife to one great guy.
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Old 06-16-2008, 05:09 PM
 
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I would never lie about it. I'm proud of my well researched and thought-out decision.

I'm teaching my children that it's not ok to lie. What kind of example would I be?

I agree...but I have never been in any situation with the ER or any doctors that push vaccines.

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Old 06-16-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Crazybean View Post
If I'm going for an illness that one know can figure out, I won't lie. If we are going to the ER for a broken bone or something else, I'll carefully omit some things without technically lying. I live in a very country, pro vax area and I don't want trouble if it's not necessary to know.
I agree.

DS broke his collar bone and we took him to the ER. I said he was up to date without batting an eye. For an illness I cannot identify, I would not lie but I would not be explaining either. We don't vax for religious reasons.

I don't want to teach my children to lie but I also want them to discern when it's smart not to divulge the whole truth. I've been in plenty of situations that it's wiser to stay mum or to give the answer they want to hear.

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Old 06-17-2008, 12:54 PM
 
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I'm very upfront about not vaxing.

We took our son to the ER for a fever of 104.7 that would not break (after 2 days). We got the "lecture" from the very misinformed doctor that since he wasn't vaxed with HiB that he could now get meningitis. My husband said, "Oh, really? How many strains of bacteria can cause meningitis?" (silence) "How many strains does the vaccine 'protect' against?" (silence) "Until you can answer me intelligently about vaccines, don't lecture me about not getting them." (awkward silence and then gave us our discharge papers). I was so proud of him!!

I won't lie because I don't want anything to be over looked, but I also won't stand to be lectured to about a decision I've made.
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:01 PM
 
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We would never go to the ER unless it is in a trauma situation and then their vax status wouldn't matter at which point we would say "we are all set".

If they would question it further I would remind them what we are here for and to please attend to that matter.

We have absolutely no fear of doctors or CPS.
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:56 PM
 
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What about lying to a dentist? We were just refused care for being honest about our kids' vax status at a pediatric dentist. Now I almost wished I would've checked the "vaxes up to date" box.

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Old 06-26-2008, 05:10 PM
 
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What about lying to a dentist? We were just refused care for being honest about our kids' vax status at a pediatric dentist. Now I almost wished I would've checked the "vaxes up to date" box.
Find another dentist. There are millions out there.

I don't want my dentist to lie to me or check boxes to make me happy.

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Old 06-26-2008, 05:24 PM
 
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Find another dentist. There are millions out there.

I don't want my dentist to lie to me or check boxes to make me happy.
Unfortunately no, there's not a ton of decent dentists in my area and therein lies the problem. My kids need to see a dentist and every one I've called has asked about vaxes. At this point I'd even be willing to drive to another state to have them seen by someone who'll not give us grief. Pretty sad that this dentist has to make the lives of honest parents miserable.

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Old 06-26-2008, 05:35 PM
 
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I've never had a dentist ask about vax status either.

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Old 06-26-2008, 11:44 PM
 
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I think it is dumb to request vax info. I will lie because I just don't feel like going into a vax discussion with a dentist.
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:39 PM
 
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I don't lie, but I can be evasive. I say we are up to date.

Is there a vaccine for cavities
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:54 PM
 
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Apparently they were affraid my kids were going to bite them...oh, and infect all the other kids in the office, too. They actually told me their policy was to "protect" all the other patients....the vaccinated patients.

It is discrimination pure and simple...I'll be writing a letter for sure.

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Old 06-27-2008, 06:08 PM
 
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I would never tell an outright lie, but I won't volunteer information that isnt' asked for, and I have given misleading answers.

For example: CPS worker asked me "has he been to the pediatrician? Has he had all his vaccinations?" I answered "yes, he's been to the pediatrician" and supplied her with the necessary dates (why we were dealing with CPS is a whole other thread, having to do with domestic violence, and IMO this was an appropriate time for CPS to be involved, or I wouldn't have told her anything.) Had she asked me "has he gotten XYZ shot" I would have answered honestly, firmly, and with conviction that I'd done my research. But she asked a vague question and I gave her a vague answer.

An aquantance or relative asking me a similar question would have gotten "why do you want to know?"

I've been to the ER a handful of times with my kids, and nobody ever asked me about their vax status.

Truthfully, they should be looking for "vax preventable" diseases even in vaxed kids; no vaccine is 100% effective.

For a dentist, I'm not sure as none of my kids ever went to a dentist before getting some vaccines (we delay vax til age 2 or so.) I can't recall if there was any vax info asked in the "new patient" info I had to fill out. I would seriously consider "omitting" data or "accidentally checking the wrong box" on a "new patient" form if it was the only way to receive care.

No way would I falsify records if they requested proof of vaccination, but "accidentally" checking the "up to date" box instead of the "didn't get it" box doesn't sound like it's on the same scale.

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Old 06-27-2008, 06:11 PM
 
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I have had experience with this, exactly, which was crazy-making. I took my sons, 5 and 3, into the doctor, with paroxysmal coughs with symptoms that looked just like whooping cough (pertussis) this spring, which is the season for pertussis. I told the doctor all about their symptoms, who looked them over, knew they were unvaccinated and didn't address my concerns about the pertussis.

A week later, my baby started having the same symptoms, and since I had done my research, I knew that there was a chance that if it was pertussis, a course of antibiotics at the beginning of symptoms could reduce the severity or duration of symptoms for him.

Of course, the doctor treated me like a mindless gnat/hysterical mother, and ignored me when I mentioned my concerns. Well, I asked for a culture to check for the illness anyway. Which he did, knowing full well (later we learned this in the hospital from the therapists who did my son's breathing treatments) that he needed to take the sputum sample with deeper suction, not just a swab. He was trying to pacify me. We went home without a prescription. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia as a complication about two weeks after that visit, of what the doctor NOW BELIEVES to be, pertussis. He decided to test him in the hospital, which was of course too late to get the proper results. This doctor completely discounted my ability to read and think and couldn't bring himself to listen to a mother who knows her children, and it cost us $30,000 and perhaps an illness my baby son could have avoided, the pneumonia. Which he kicked me out of his practice b/c he blamed me for not vaccinating my son.

Doctors simply think pertussis doesn't exist because there are vaccines. It doesn't matter whether your child is vaxed or not. Even if it's classic case of the illness, there is so much misdiagnosing, I am convinced of this from my experience.
Wow, I can barely fathom any doctor nowadays risking his/her livelihood, professional reputation, a malpractice suit, consequent loss of malpractice insurance (or an insuperable rate increase) not to mention a child's life, just to thwart a parent. Doctors are fully aware that not even close to 100% of children are vaxed. They know pertussis still exists. ?????
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:12 PM
 
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I'm honest about my child's vax status. We took ds in when he was 9 months old because he was coughing so bad he couldn't breathe. We're selective and delayed vaxers, but ds had DTaP on schedule. They still checked for pertussis even though they were 99% sure it was croup (and it was.) It was CYA thing and I'm glad they did it.

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Old 06-27-2008, 08:20 PM
 
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I've always been 100% upfront about my childrens' non/highly limited vax'd status with health care providers, and have had no issues whatsoever in 19 years. We've been to the ER for stitches (several times. Oy), a sprained hand, upper respitory breathing issues in an 18 mos old (where I almost lost my mnd with worry), and convulsions in a 4 mos old (very scary, but nothing). If I am needy enough to take my kid to an ER, I need them to know about us. They could possibly need that info, especially if they are looking for symptoms of certain diseases. YMMV
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